Dear Boris (2 Viewers)

[duffer]

I’m merely getting myself to the level this place has sunk to

Hmm, right... and you of course have played absolutely no part in that... You're just an innocent victim here, yes?

 

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[Grendel]

Hmm, right... and you of course have played absolutely no part in that... You're just an innocent victim here, yes?

Oh I certainly never play a victim

 

[duffer]

Well I guess we can explore the last time labour was in power and the good friends of the kommandant in chief

Hmm, yes, possibly, although that's a long time ago perhaps, before Russia was was obliterating another European country.

And weren't you just saying how all of this was because the west had scorned Russia's friendship in the past, or was that a different 'Grendel'?

 

[duffer]

Oh I certainly never play a victim

Right, not sure I'd agree there... but nonetheless you're saying you've done nothing to diminish standards hereabouts?

You don't get involved in ad hominem attacks or anything like that?

 

[duffer]

Throughout history whether it be Labour or Tory they have had dodgy friends. Thatcher was besties with one of the worst peadophiles ever in Jimmy Savile for example

Indeed, but I can't remember a governing party ever taking donations from Russian oligarchs before - or have I missed something?

 

[procdoc]

Indeed, but I can't remember a governing party ever taking donations from Russian oligarchs before - or have I missed something?

This current version of the Tory party are the most corrupt I’ve ever seen to be honest. Can’t stand any of them

 

[duffer]

This current version of the Tory party are the most corrupt I’ve ever seen to be honest. Can’t stand any of them

Agreed, and you're absolutely right of course, politicians attract dodgy mates like sh*t attracts flies. It's only this lot that have been so outrageously blatant about it though.

 

[procdoc]

Agreed, and you're absolutely right of course, politicians attract dodgy mates like sh*t attracts flies. It's only this lot that have been so outrageously blatant about it though.

It’s so blatant because there seems to be a majority that turn a blind eye to all of their blatant corruption and lies.
If the shoe was on the other foot and it was Corbyn or whichever Labour leader was in government the very same people that back the Tories would be up in arms. Hypocrisy knows no bounds

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I’m merely getting myself to the level this place has sunk to

 

[duffer]

Right, not sure I'd agree there... but nonetheless you're saying you've done nothing to diminish standards hereabouts?

You don't get involved in ad hominem attacks or anything like that?

And just like that, he was gone...

 

[Grendel]

And just like that, he was gone...

Sorry I went to Waitrose is that a war crime now?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Sorry I went to Waitrose is that a war crime now?

Hello Comrade. Supporting a worker's co-operative are we?

 

[Grendel]

It’s so blatant because there seems to be a majority that turn a blind eye to all of their blatant corruption and lies.
If the shoe was on the other foot and it was Corbyn or whichever Labour leader was in government the very same people that back the Tories would be up in arms. Hypocrisy knows no bounds

yes it was a real closed secret in the Labour Polit Bureau

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/blog/2008/oct/16/mandelson-russia

 

[Grendel]

Hello Comrade. Supporting a worker's co-operative are we?

It’s going down hill there’s even a collection for food banks now

 

[duffer]

Sorry I went to Waitrose is that a war crime now?

Not at all, no. So presumably you'll be able to answer the question?

 

[Deleted member 2477]

Well he is a racist. And I was merely responding to Rob pointing out who started the lefty/righty bollocks on this thread, and he seemed to go off on a random tangent, calling me an idiot while saying eh never started any abuse!

Well, teacher, he did. So he can't be surprised when he's called out for being a clueless clown, an idiotic imbecile, a cretinous c**t. If he didn't start it, then nobody would notice.

Anyway, I'm not feeding the troll anymore. I refuse to believe there are such moronic lowlives in reality, so it's best I keep that impression.

Please show me some evidence that im racist you prick. You cant, what your really saying is because I dont conform to your little single minded criteria you call me racist because it makes you happy and justifies your own small minded agenda. If only you knew what my family history is you would perhaps realise what a fckin idiot you really are but I wont hold my breath as people like you just like to throw the r word around when it suits because you dont have a fckin clue or the intelligence to reply with evidence.
i wish you well in your little pink fluffy world and whatever you think of Grendel he knows what the truth is and yes there is a certain group of idiots on here who do try to bully and intimadte others who dont support their little left wing views and unfortunately the forum is the worst for it as most dont even want to contribute anymore. So stick your little race card up your white privalidged arse because thats all its worth

 

[duffer]

yes it was a real closed secret in the Labour Polit Bureau

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/blog/2008/oct/16/mandelson-russia

Yes, just two points on that again, a lot of labour people don't tend to like Mandelson and his cosying up to immense wealth deregulation of the city etc., and as before Russia wasn't destroying Ukraine at that point in time.

Again though, didn't you say that we should have been making friends with Russia, or did I imagine that?

 

[procdoc]

Please show me some evidence that im racist you prick. You cant, what your really saying is because I dont conform to your little single minded criteria you call me racist because it makes you happy and justifies your own small minded agenda. If only you knew what my family history is you would perhaps realise what a fckin idiot you really are but I wont hold my breath as people like you just like to throw the r word around when it suits because you dont have a fckin clue or the intelligence to reply with evidence.
i wish you well in your little pink fluffy world and whatever you think of Grendel he knows what the truth is and yes there is a certain group of idiots on here who do try to bully and intimadte others who dont support their little left wing views and unfortunately the forum is the worst for it as most dont even want to contribute anymore. So stick your little race card up your white privalidged arse because thats all its worth

 

[Grendel]

Not at all, no. So presumably you'll be able to answer the question?

A question regarding diminishing the standards you actually have liked posts from an Ira sympathiser and someone whose intellect includes accusations of “chatting whiff” “smoking pipe” and “sitting in your own piss” - you seem to like that standard of debating style so I assume you want me to aspire to that level

I hate to break it to you but this isn’t a measure of intellect or any form of sensibility it’s a football forum where some cosy pseudo middle class semi intellectuals pretend they want socialism and now pretend they want to go to war

So no I don’t diminish the debate I raise it and pretty much an the debate

 

[Grendel]

Yes, just two points on that again, a lot of labour people don't tend to like Mandelson and his cosying up to immense wealth deregulation of the city etc., and as before Russia wasn't destroying Ukraine at that point in time.

Again though, didn't you say that we should have been making friends with Russia, or did I imagine that?

No point is discussion point one as you have blinkered labour bias

I said we should have made Russia an ally not an enemy - are you shocked? Are you sending me to Muswell Hill for a socialist injection?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

A question regarding diminishing the standards you actually have liked posts from an Ira sympathiser and someone whose intellect includes accusations of “chatting whiff” “smoking pipe” and “sitting in your own piss” - you seem to like that standard of debating style so I assume you want me to aspire to that level

I hate to break it to you but this isn’t a measure of intellect or any form of sensibility it’s a football forum where some cosy pseudo middle class semi intellectuals pretend they want socialism and now pretend they want to go to war

So no I don’t diminish the debate I raise it and pretty much an the debate

I assume you meant to say "So no I don’t diminish the debate I raise it and pretty much am the debate" but if we let that by as a genuine error surely your vastly superior intellect would have noticed that if you are the debate, then it's not a debate. Unless of course you argue with yourself but I very much doubt your ego would allow you to entertain any other thought than what you're saying is right and any internal dissention must be destroyed for the traitor that it is.

Given the fact you've written you are the debate shows you don't even consider any other viewpoint as part of it. And that is why you are, and will remain, wrong on a depressingly consistent basis.

 

[duffer]

A question regarding diminishing the standards you actually have liked posts from an Ira sympathiser and someone whose intellect includes accusations of “chatting whiff” “smoking pipe” and “sitting in your own piss” - you seem to like that standard of debating style so I assume you want me to aspire to that level

I hate to break it to you but this isn’t a measure of intellect or any form of sensibility it’s a football forum where some cosy pseudo middle class semi intellectuals pretend they want socialism and now pretend they want to go to war

So no I don’t diminish the debate I raise it and pretty much an the debate

So just to clarify, you're saying that you drop to the lowest possible standard of debating to 'fit in' with the horrible people here, whilst simultaneously raising standards and winning the argument by posting trash?

I'm a little confused, can you explain how that works please?

Again, it might help me believe you aspire to a higher quality of discussion if you could park the ad hominem rants - there's no need to try to drop to my level if it makes you uncomfortable.

 

[duffer]

No point is discussion point one as you have blinkered labour bias

I said we should have made Russia an ally not an enemy - are you shocked? Are you sending me to Muswell Hill for a socialist injection?

OK, so if I've understood you correctly, you're saying that we should have made Russia a friend, but because it was someone from Labour doing it at the time, it must have been wrong?

Have I got that about right?

 

[Grendel]

I assume you meant to say "So no I don’t diminish the debate I raise it and pretty much am the debate" but if we let that by as a genuine error surely your vastly superior intellect would have noticed that if you are the debate, then it's not a debate. Unless of course you argue with yourself but I very much doubt your ego would allow you to entertain any other thought than what you're saying is right and any internal dissention must be destroyed for the traitor that it is.

Given the fact you've written you are the debate shows you don't even consider any other viewpoint as part of it. And that is why you are, and will remain, wrong on a depressingly consistent basis.

So I’m always on the losing side at elections brexit and the continuation of capitalism - how depressing for me

 

[Grendel]

OK, so if I've understood you correctly, you're saying that we should have made Russia a friend, but because it was someone from Labour doing it at the time, it must have been wrong?

Have I got that about right?

No you are 20 years out of date

 

[duffer]

No you are 20 years out of date

Sorry, again not with you. The Mandelson story was from 2008, when I presume you're saying we shouldn't have been making friends with Russia. Nothing to do with your dislike of Labour though, I'm sure.

So, are you saying we should've been making friends with Russia in 1988, when it was actually the USSR, with Reagan and Maggie in situ?

Or are you saying that we should be making friends with Russia now, whilst they're busy bombing Ukraine flat?

 

[Grendel]

So I’m always on the losing side at elections brexit and the continuation of capitalism - how depressing for me

Tell you what I’ll start another thread on this and I’ll give my opinion on this crises and how to resolve it

Then actually debate it - no twitter links no dumbass opinions from other sources but actual opinions and then we can have a sensible discussion and those who want to stay in the playground can stay here

 

[Grendel]

Sorry, again not with you. The Mandelson story was from 2008, when I presume you're saying we shouldn't have been making friends with Russia. Nothing to do with your dislike of Labour though, I'm sure.

So, are you saying we should've been making friends with Russia in 1988, when it was actually the USSR, with Reagan and Maggie in situ?

Or are you saying that we should be making friends with Russia now, whilst they're busy bombing Ukraine flat?

You are morphing into PVA oh and I’m a bit busy now but I’ll start a thread over the weekend and I will have sensible discussions but frankly you’ve clearly no understanding at all here of post communist Russia and the circumstances the west - mainly the us obsession with a Cold War enemy and it’s subservient slavish obsession with Chinese economic growth at the expense of an attempt to embrace the capitalist growth in Russia - have resulted in creating Putin and his capability of creating a cold blast from the past of Stalinism

Oligarch is such a cool word but in the end means very little and I’m sure if a certain oligarch picked Highfield Road
over Stamford bridge there would be little complaint

I’ll give my view coldly with no links no social media drivel so it’s an actual debate based on opinions and knowledge

Imagine that

 

[procdoc]

Grendel is an expert on sacking managers, forensic accounts and now Russian politics. Is there no end to his talents?

 

[duffer]

You are morphing into PVA

And you're avoiding answering questions. If you want a higher standard of debate, here it is right now.

All I've done is politely ask a few questions. Think of it as a chance to share your wisdom with us.

So again, if it wasn't right in 2008 to be friends with Russia, when was it right? Explain the 20 years out of date thing, if you can.

 

[Grendel]

And you're avoiding answering questions. If you want a higher standard of debate, here it is right now.

All I've done is politely ask a few questions. Think of it as a chance to share your wisdom with us.

So again, if it wasn't right in 2008 to be friends with Russia, when was it right? Explain the 20 years out of date thing, if you can.

I’ve explained it when I mentioned Wolfiwitz through to Romney sorry I’m not using crayons and doing it again. Believe the opinion or not and seriously if your pointing to the fact it’s 92 and not 88 as some pointy stick told you so it’s not a great start is it

 

[duffer]

I’ve explained it when I mentioned Wolfiwitz through to Romney sorry I’m not using crayons and doing it again. Believe the opinion or not and seriously if your pointing to the fact it’s 92 and not 88 as some pointy stick told you so it’s not a great start is it

See, for all of your protesting, you're really not capable of civilised debate are you?

No need to go through the whole story, you brought up Mandelson and Labour in a story from 2008, just explain why what they were doing was wrong and why it was 20 years out of date? Simple request.

Or accept that, as usual, you were really just engaged in the kind of low level trolling that you claim to deplore.

 

[Grendel]

See, for all of your protesting, you're really not capable of civilised debate are you?

No need to go through the whole story, you brought up Mandelson and Labour in a story from 2008, just explain why what they were doing was wrong and why it was 20 years out of date? Simple request.

Or accept that, as usual, you were really just engaged in the kind of low level trolling that you claim to deplore.

I explained every political party has had associations while in government with people of money. Blair was as corrupt as they come so it’s not a party political point - if we really want to go into the bowels of history minutes were suppressed of cabinet meetings under the stewardship of Ted Heath (oh a Tory) to ensure Britain remained in the common market in the referendum so guess what - it happens

still not mentioned your view on Wolfowitz and the us policy that in my opinion has created this mess.

How am I not being civilised?

 

[duffer]

I explained every political party has had associations while in government with people of money. Blair was as corrupt as they come so it’s not a party political point - if we really want to go into the bowels of history minutes were suppressed of cabinet meetings under the stewardship of Ted Heath (oh a Tory) to ensure Britain remained in the common market in the referendum so guess what - it happens

still not mentioned your view on Wolfowitz and the us policy that in my opinion has created this mess.

How am I not being civilised?

Bluntly, the lack of civility because you can't help but to lapse into unnecessary insults. This is pretty much your first post where you haven't done that. If I imply that I could explain something but you're too stupid to understand, how would that make you feel?

And then, as politely as I can put it, the whataboutery and evasion when you get asked a straight question.

You'll get no argument from me on the mistakes that the West made at the end of the cold war, I've also answered that point elsewhere.

In short though, I'd contest that Russia is a good example of what happens under completely unregulated capitalism, especially when further corroded by state corruption. I suspect that's not answer you'd want to hear though.

It also still doesn't justify what's happening in Ukraine right now.

 

[Grendel]

Bluntly, the lack of civility because you can't help but to lapse into unnecessary insults. This is pretty much your first post where you haven't done that. If I imply that I could explain something but you're too stupid to understand, how would that make you feel?

And then, as politely as I can put it, the whataboutery and evasion when you get asked a straight question.

You'll get no argument from me on the mistakes that the West made at the end of the cold war, I've also answered that point elsewhere.

In short though, I'd contest that Russia is a good example of what happens under completely unregulated capitalism, especially when further corroded by state corruption. I suspect that's not answer you'd want to hear though.

It also still doesn't justify what's happening in Ukraine right now.

I’ve asked you one question 3 times and you’ve made no attempt to answer it