Council could vote on Ricoh takeover as early as Tuesday (2 Viewers)

duffer · Oct 1, 2014

torchomatic said:
To be honest, it this happens then it will be best for CCFC if a new stadium is built. It seems after recent games that Fisher's original "vision" of a 15K stadium would just be about right. Leave the Ricoh and the Wasps to have a wonderful future together.

I know that's just bitterness speaking, but in truth if we're going to retain these owners and their current grand plan for improving CCFC's fate, then for an out-of-town stadium 15k might be too big. I doubt I'd bother to go very often if the limit of our ambition is to struggle along in L1.

ACL and Wasps might want to sanity check their figures too. With an average attendance of 7k currently located relatively close to their core support, I can't quite see how they can turn the Ricoh into a cash-cow(tm) without CCFC in place.

torchomatic · Oct 1, 2014

You could drop the oxy.

limoncello said:
An 'undiluted précis'? Oxymoron.

duffer · Oct 1, 2014

torchomatic said:
I'm amazed that the idiots who agreed to a yearly rental of over a million pounds couldn't have foreseen that.

I think that points to the fact that in terms of the club's turnover it wasn't seen as a huge issue.

If we could have bought the ground directly, instead of renting it, the interest on the loan would have been substantially more. SISU, as we know, weren't bothered about it for a fair while either. Regardless, have we not had this argument before?

Sky Blue Dal · Oct 1, 2014

torchomatic said:
To be honest, it this happens then it will be best for CCFC if a new stadium is built. It seems after recent games that Fisher's original "vision" of a 15K stadium would just be about right. Leave the Ricoh and the Wasps to have a wonderful future together.

Don’t you think if we had different owners who were genuinely cared about the club and were successfully pushing for promotion that we would be getting crowds greater than 15k. I definitely think so. What I see is we have not seen success with SISU and if we do with new owners then I can see our crowds swell.
Sadly many fans don’t see any ambitions or future with SISU hence reason why many cannot find the energy to attend matches or find it difficult to part with their money to watch city consistently failing to entertain , especially after the January transfer window has closed.

I want CCFC to own the stadium even under SISU, but for gods sakes SISU, PLEASE make a counter offer before its too late.

torchomatic · Oct 1, 2014

Yes, I'm sure we would but new owners wouldwant to actually "own" something apart from a name, wouldn't they?

I couldn't agree more with your last sentence.

Sky Blue Dal said:
Don’t you think if we had different owners who were genuinely cared about the club and were successfully pushing for promotion that we would be getting crowds greater than 15k. I definitely think so. What I see is we have not seen success with SISU and if we do with new owners then I can see our crowds swell.
Sadly many fans don’t see any ambitions or future with SISU hence reason why many cannot find the energy to attend matches or find it difficult to part with their money to watch city consistently failing to entertain , especially after the January transfer window has closed.

I want CCFC to own the stadium even under SISU, but for gods sakes SISU, PLEASE make a counter offer before its too late.

Otis · Oct 1, 2014

Sky Blue Dal said:
Don’t you think if we had different owners who were genuinely cared about the club and were successfully pushing for promotion that we would be getting crowds greater than 15k. I definitely think so. What I see is we have not seen success with SISU and if we do with new owners then I can see our crowds swell.
Sadly many fans don’t see any ambitions or future with SISU hence reason why many cannot find the energy to attend matches or find it difficult to part with their money to watch city consistently failing to entertain , especially after the January transfer window has closed.

I want CCFC to own the stadium even under SISU, but for gods sakes SISU, PLEASE make a counter offer before its too late.

Maybe their silence speaks volumes.

Maybe Joy is giving Chris Robinson a one hander under the desk as we very speak.

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Oct 1, 2014

limoncello said:
An 'undiluted précis'? Oxymoron.

I don't think so

Sky Blue Dal · Oct 1, 2014

Otis said:
Maybe their silence speaks volumes.

Maybe Joy is giving Chris Robinson a one hander under the desk as we very speak.

I would give Joy a one hander if she pulls it off and permanently attached the stadium with the club.

Maybe I will be in a generous mood and give her the other hand too.

fernandopartridge · Oct 1, 2014

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
I don't think so

Undiluted is superfluous.

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Oct 1, 2014

fernandopartridge said:
Undiluted is superfluous.

You could say that, yes; but an oxymoron it's not. You can agree with me if you want - as you know I'm right. Just a 'like' will do. Go on; do it

Godiva · Oct 1, 2014

spider_ricoh said:
Did you complain about illegal state aid when the council stepped in as lender of last resort when CCFC's stadium project got into trouble and no private investor would touch it?

The treaty provisions on state aid was introduced with the Lisbon treaty in 2007.
State aid was never an issue when the Ricoh was build.

fernandopartridge · Oct 1, 2014

Godiva said:
The treaty provisions on state aid was introduced with the Lisbon treaty in 2007.
State aid was never an issue when the Ricoh was build.

You're wrong there mate. It was part of the Treaty of Rome because it's a cornerstone of the single market.

Also remember that Fletcher said the council couldn't share the profit from Tesco land sale with the club because of state aid.

Kingokings204 · Oct 1, 2014

Godiva said:
The treaty provisions on state aid was introduced with the Lisbon treaty in 2007.
State aid was never an issue when the Ricoh was build.

It still isn't an issue either in 2014.

Jack Griffin · Oct 1, 2014

oldskyblue58 said:
Everyone seems to get the impression that this detailed interest from Wasps is being progressed as some knee jerk reaction to rush it through. I am not so sure it is, I think it will turn out that detailed talks have been going on for a number of months and prior to the JR result. For instance it takes time to put an investment prospectus together and that is subject to due diligence and that only happens once heads of agreement have been agreed and that only happens after detailed talks and scrutiny by the various lawyers etc. That all takes a lot of time especially given the history of the site

The points of law and the facts of the JR remain the same and few cases actually get reversed on appeal especially not after such a damning judgement in the first place. What odds three law lords over turning one of their esteemed colleagues judgements (especially one very highly regarded in the legal profession). Could he have got it so wrong after such a detailed summing up and reasoning?

the Consortiums own due diligence would have had to consider the JR because the loan is central to the ACL balance sheet including getting their own legal opinion. It seems they are willing to press forward with it ........ what does that tell us. Didn't someone say they would come in ready for next season ..... that doesn't seem a great rush.

Finally we do not actually know what next weeks vote is on ...... a sale, permission to look at sale, a rejection of the sale etc

And this sums up why I think oldfivers comment about 3 law lords being a "different force" a single high court judge is inane.

oldfiver said:
Three Law Lord Judges are a different force to those who have looked at the case so far

Godiva · Oct 1, 2014

fernandopartridge said:
You're wrong there mate. It was part of the Treaty of Rome because it's a cornerstone of the single market.

You're right - sorry.

Samo · Oct 1, 2014

Goodness me there aint half some off topic intellectual wanking going on in this thread. Get a room boys.

Limey · Oct 1, 2014

Woodster said:
The rent deal to return to the Ricoh was handled in an incognito manner by the club, which was widely praised.

Seeing as there has been no comment from the club regarding any potential Wasps acquisition, has there been any firm confirmation that SISU aren't trying to thrash out an equivalent deal?

This might be a bit pie in the sky but it's hard to completely rule out at this stage.

Exactly. Maybe the media silence from sisu should be a comforting sign. However, with the long term future of the club at stake it's also very unsettling.

I just want ccfc having a permanent home at the Ricoh. I don't care if it's under sisu. I will selfishly back any group that can make this happen. Other battles can be won another day.

spider_ricoh · Oct 1, 2014

There's no reason to think CCFC would have to leave the Ricoh simply because of Wasps buying it. In fact, it makes sense for Wasps to keep us as a tenant. Anything to the contrary are just scare stories.

Selling to Wasps would spike Joy's guns and leave her up shit creek without a paddle - good!

dongonzalos · Oct 1, 2014

I am still completely in shock at how anyone else is trying to buy ACL.
After been told repeatedly for three years that as with with CCFC there is no one else and SISU are the only option.
It will take a while for me to shake the brain washing.

In all seriousness I don't think a deal will or can happen that quickly but whatever price the consortium comes back with. At least then we get an independent idea of what ACL maybe worth and a point for SISU to bid at.

covmark · Oct 1, 2014

spider_ricoh said:
There's no reason to think CCFC would have to leave the Ricoh simply because of Wasps buying it. In fact, it makes sense for Wasps to keep us as a tenant. Anything to the contrary are just scare stories.

Selling to Wasps would spike Joy's guns and leave her up shit creek without a paddle - good!

lordsummerisle · Oct 1, 2014

dongonzalos said:
I am still completely in shock at how anyone else is trying to buy ACL.
After been told repeatedly for three years that as with with CCFC there is no one else and SISU are the only option.
It will take a while for me to shake the brain washing.

In all seriousness I don't think a deal will or can happen that quickly but whatever price the consortium comes back with. At least then we get an independent idea of what ACL maybe worth and a point for SISU to bid at.

I'm completely in shock as to why the council and Higgs would want to sell such a profitable business to anybody at all to be honest.

Especially as it's a Community Asset.

Jack Griffin · Oct 1, 2014

fernandopartridge said:
If the council lose the JR it's because they've broken the state aid rules. THEY have. Not SISU.

That is another way of looking at it, but the JR should never have been bought in the first place.
I suppose you think it was great idea for the club to take the body who built a stadium for them to court.
If you do then don't be surprised if the reaction results in what we've ended up with.. a f***ing mess.

Rusty Trombone · Oct 1, 2014

lordsummerisle said:
I'm completely in shock as to why the council and Higgs would want to sell such a profitable business to anybody at all to be honest.

Especially as it's a Community Asset.

Are you suggesting the only businesses ever sold are loss making ones?

shepardo01 · Oct 1, 2014

So.......what would happen if Wasps buy a 90% share in the arena and no talks have even taken place with "the club" because as far as the council are concerned, "the club" are "building their own stadium"?
What do people envisage happening then? Will that effect the deal with ACL that is in place related to CCFC playing there?

letsallsingtogether · Oct 1, 2014

A bit like Birmingham selling the NEC I would have thought.

Not agreeing with this sale by the way just making a comparison?

All local councils are selling anything of any worth due to Government cut backs. If it worth nothing then they close it!!! Most councils were the biggest employers in their regions, that has now also changed due to cutbacks.

lordsummerisle said:
I'm completely in shock as to why the council and Higgs would want to sell such a profitable business to anybody at all to be honest.

Especially as it's a Community Asset.

lordsummerisle · Oct 1, 2014

Rusty Trombone said:
Are you suggesting the only businesses ever sold are loss making ones?

No, but surely such a good profit making business should be allowed to benefit the local populace, not private investors and hedge-funds.

Seems to be another case of socialising losses and privatising profits.

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 1, 2014

letsallsingtogether said:
All local councils are selling anything of any worth due to Government cut backs. If it worth nothing then they close it!!!

That they most certainly are!

lordsummerisle · Oct 1, 2014

letsallsingtogether said:
A bit like Birmingham selling the NEC I would have thought.

Not agreeing with this sale by the way just making a comparison?

All local councils are selling anything of any worth due to Government cut backs. If it worth nothing then they close it!!! Most councils were the biggest employers in their regions, that has now also changed due to cutbacks.

Think the NEC one is mostly due to the massive bill coming up to Birmingham City Council for underpaying female workers for decades.

To be fair to Coventry City Council think they made provision for it quite a while ago.

Rusty Trombone · Oct 1, 2014

lordsummerisle said:
No, but surely such a good profit making business should be allowed to benefit the local populace, not private investors and hedge-funds.

Seems to be another case of socialising losses and privatising profits.

So if it's a good offer you'll be happy then.

Chipfat · Oct 1, 2014

oldfiver said:
They are by no way the worst owners in my time

You say "other parties" - are there more?

You say a cheap deal - it is an investment property the value of which can be calculated. It is only worth more than that if you have a specific purpose which will enhance its value. If it is a "cheap deal " the council can sell to some one else - it does not mean any one else will pay it

Other parties meaning Sisu and Wasps are interested in the Ricoh, 1 party wants to do a deal around the table the other Sisu want to do it in court...

Also if you think Sisu are not the worst owners in the clubs history then god help us... The list of things that these people have done goes longer than any other i can remember.. Relegations, Point deductions, Court dates, multiple Directors, some who have sat in the stand for months without fans knowing some sitting in the dug out!!!!!! Text a Sub, failing to keep any players of any decent quality,, and then last but not least,, take the team away from the city.

Lastly Cheap deal or gaining the Ricoh on the cheap, is what Sisu's only plan other than day1 spend promotion, sell the club has been,, soon as RR plan A failed the ricoh is the only thing that recoups Sisu's loses.. The court case and move away is to force a land grab... I don't like the CCC i dont like the way they have been able to involve themselves in our club... But at this minute this club is dead with them or dead without them being involved,, sisu are going to kill this club if they dont get what they want because pound to a piece of shit if they cant compete with wasp's for the bid on the Ricoh then they cant afford to bulid a new one......

lordsummerisle · Oct 1, 2014

Rusty Trombone said:
So if it's a good offer you'll be happy then.

Not really, if a good offer, then obviously something in it for the private backers, when it could be within local control, benefitting local people, and institutions.

Of course, it seems like nobody is going to be told what the offer is and whether it is good or bad anyway.

All a bit Dame Shirley for me.

letsallsingtogether · Oct 1, 2014

Yes they did, but still have massive cuts to make going through another round of redundancies...

lordsummerisle said:
Think the NEC one is mostly due to the massive bill coming up to Birmingham City Council for underpaying female workers for decades.

To be fair to Coventry City Council think they made provision for it quite a while ago.

Rusty Trombone · Oct 1, 2014

lordsummerisle said:
Not really, if a good offer, then obviously something in it for the private backers, when it could be within local control, benefitting local people, and institutions.

Of course, it seems like nobody is going to be told what the offer is and whether it is good or bad anyway.

All a bit Dame Shirley for me.

So basically whatever anyone does you'll assume, based on a lack of trust, that the club or the fine people of Cov, or both, are being screwed. Sounds a fair conclusion to be honest.

dongonzalos · Oct 1, 2014

lordsummerisle said:
I'm completely in shock as to why the council and Higgs would want to sell such a profitable business to anybody at all to be honest.

Especially as it's a Community Asset.

You shouldn't be shocked the charity have been saying it for years and did a deal with someone before but they didn't want to pay the agreed price I think.

hutch1972 · Oct 1, 2014

I have not read all the comments so if I am repeating I apologise now, but I was under the impression going back a few years that should anyone purchase the arena they would also have to fund the building of hotels etc in the surrounding area.

Council could vote on Ricoh takeover as early as Tuesday (2 Viewers)

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