Council could vote on Ricoh takeover as early as Tuesday (1 Viewer)

Otis said:

Well going by their forums (and that is all we have to judge on), they are pretty much all unamiously against it.

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Limey said:

Some wasp talk...
http://www.rugbynetwork.net/boards/read/s96.htm?98,14903253

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This one sounds familiar...

I'm in the same boat as w6. I support wasps because I chose a west London club - that's us, that's our history. I am not from the Midlands - if I'd wanted to support a club from Coventry I'd support Coventry rfc.

Move the club to Coventry and its NOT wasps anymore. It's a Midlands club who just happen o have the kit and the name, its a franchise. It would be an mk dons-Wimbledon move. And it would be a huge huge kick in the teeth to the support base that stuck with this club through thick and thin. And before anyone starts going on about the "survival of he club being more important" - not for me. If we cant survive in our historic home with a premiership squad I'd rather we slashed the wage bill and dropped a few leagues than move to the Midlands.

Would I renew my ST? Never in a million years. would I still support them? Probably not though id always have a soft spot for them. It just wouldn't be the same club to me. I wouldn't support Quins, sarries etc - I'd probably start going to watch blackheath or something.

Rant over. And I'm still hoping that this is all b*llocks and the club can announce somethin positive soon. I fully understand why the club can't say anything at this time - but the longer they leave it the more these rumours will grow


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

rupert_bear said:

So come on Sickboy, Grendel, Nick and others, nail you colours to the mast. Would you be happy for the likes of ARCO to own the Ricoh

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Yes why not?

Grendel said:

Yes why not?

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Muffins like spider think Wasps owners won't seek to maximise their profits as the stadium management company at the expense of the club.

rupert_bear said:

So come on Sickboy, Grendel, Nick and others, nail you colours to the mast. Would you be happy for the likes of ARCO to own the Ricoh

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I would love it, I could get some cheap safety boots and personalised T Shirts.

fernandopartridge said:

Muffins like spider think Wasps owners won't seek to maximise their profits as the stadium management company at the expense of the club.

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What I don't get is why a faceless consortium for a west London rugby club is more acceptable than a faceless hedge fund that owns the club.

What about all this protecting the community asset bollocks as well.

Double standards.

Grendel said:

Every club acquires more debt. Show me a club that makes money.

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http://abehnisch.com/arsenal-profit-since-1996/

Grendel said:

What I don't get is why a faceless consortium for a west London rugby club is more acceptable than a faceless hedge fund that owns the club.

What about all this protecting the community asset bollocks as well.

Double standards.

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At the end of the day we should all want CCFC in Coventry, playing at the Rioch and definitely not want a sports franchise moving into town.

Too much focus on stopping Sisu and getting them out, where in reality we should all be rooting for Coventry City FC first and foremost.

Hurrah! Well said, Otis. You've hit the nail on the you know what.

Otis said:

At the end of the day we should all want CCFC in Coventry, playing at the Rioch and definitely not want a sports franchise moving into town.

Too much focus on stopping Sisu and getting them out, where in reality we should all be rooting for Coventry City FC first and foremost.

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torchomatic said:

Hurrah! Well said, Otis. You've hit the nail on the you know what.

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Thanks, Torch, but it's common bloody sense isn't it?

Enough of this 'if it's bad for Sisu it's good for CCFC' nonsense.

Nick said:

As well as higgs losing the appetite to sell

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Blocked by CCC golden vote

You have a quick read down this thread and the ongoing ACL, SISU and now Wasps saga and people wonder why fans are not embracing the club in its return to the City. I thought we were moving past all this political shit and taking sides crap.

no it wasn't ....... there never was an agreed deal to be blocked, only heads of terms that expired at the end of an exclusivity period 31/07/12. The value SISU wanted to pay based on their assessment of the shares held by AEHC was way below what AEHC would have accepted. There was no deal and no appetite for it and no need for the CCC golden vote.

But I do not understand why people keep raking up the past. The key and only issue here is obtaining a long term viable future for the club at the Ricoh surely? The rest is history and can not be changed.

How do we as fans get the owners to commit to a deal that ensures that? How do we get ACL to provide that? sod the history

If the club now have the appetite for it, then you would hope SW is already discussing this with ACL, at least to understand where they need to be price-wise to get the same 90% deal....

The other thing I would like to say surprises me (but somehow it doesn't) is this notion that somehow the sale of Ricoh* to someone not connected to the City of Coventry in any way is great news because it means SISU will be got rid of.

a) there is no guarantee SISU will go
b) we don't know the new owners will be sympathetic to CCFC whoever the owners are
c) there is definitely a risk of CCFC collapse

Why would anyone get excited by that prospect

That said there may be better opportunities for a long term deal with CCFC/SISU under new owners at ACL - we don't know do we. The club doesn't have to own the thing to get a level of security and there are plenty of ways to increase revenue, just need not to be so damn blinkered

* edit it isn't the Ricoh being sold though it is ACL which is the holding company that owns the head lease and through its subsidiary operates all of the functions at the site - the biggest part of the group income is brought in by selling the services it offers not rents

If and to me it remains a big if,Wasps bought out ACL and moved Wasps to Coventry, what kind of crowds could they reasonably expect to get?
I would expect the move to the vast majority of their fans would remain as unpalatable as our move to Northampton was to the vast majority of our fans.. It is hard to believe that in a few months,their travelling support wouldn't drop to a few hundred at most, how many fans would relish a 160/180 round trip every fortnight in the depth of winter.
Coventry Rugby club attracts circa 1,000-1,200 fans??, many I would imagine who have supported Cov for a very long time, why would they suddenly drop supporting Cov, to support what is an effectively a franchise club. Particularly as Cov has a rich and very successful history, of which many supporters will still have justifiable pride.
1-2,000 fans rattling around the Ricoh is hardly like to create a great match day experience, as we regularly experience with 10-12,000 gates. Sky already provides great coverage of top level Rugby for fans who like to watch a higher level than can be seen at the Butts, so I struggle to see how Wasps can make a commercial success of any proposed move. Any move to Coventry will surely see them lose the vast majority of their fanbase overnight, with no evidence that they will be embraced by rugby supporters in the City.The only beneficiaries I can see are the supporters of Leicester and Northampton who will have an away match suddenly a lot closer.

Sorry but I am thinking of CCFC first and a bloody rental deal off another Sisu company fears me with dread !!
They could fix their price at whatever they like !
We are already spiralling down with inflated debts and interest on that debt !
If the purchase was going to be by CCFC then I could get on board !!

As Sisu have not commented on this latest development maybe they are already in purchasing talks. And we will hear in due course.

sky blue john said:

Sorry but I am thinking of CCFC first and a bloody rental deal off another Sisu company fears me with dread !!
They could fix their price at whatever they like !
We are already spiralling down with inflated debts and interest on that debt !
If the purchase was going to be by CCFC then I could get on board !!

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ACL could fix their price at whatever they want and people were saying to take it weren't they?

Ian1779 said:

Taking the SISU factor out of it for one second, the club does not have the funds or assets to buy anything, nevermind a stadium or a controlling stake in ACL. So the stadium/lease/whatever would be owned by a 'different' company.

Personally I believe that if the owners were to take control of ACL in it's entirety, then there would be enough income generated that could be classed as 'FFP' and 'non-FFP' in order to run the football club competitively as well as pay a dividend to shareholders.

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I agree with that in parts. But............

The club doesn't have the money no but for the stadium to remain in the same group then there would need to be a "new" company formed where would it get its funds from? SISU could choose to put in a new company or in Otium the price would not be different. The reason they wouldn't though is where the risk is not about how the money is sourced. You would not put the stadium in to a company that is at risk from the football team losses - so you wouldn't put it in Otium or a company owned by Otium. The options, assuming it will be in the same group is to create a new company that sits between SBS&L and Otium so that the new company is owned by SBS&L but owns Otium .............or a new company owned/controlled by SBS&L with no direct link to Otium at all (other than perhaps rent & service charges.)

The second problem to be addressed is that any purchase would be most likely done by loans or debentures that would be paying interest. ACL already has loan liabilities to service, the football club struggles to get to breakeven and service its loans- a while back I added the two sets of accounts for 2012 together (I think it was) and it didn't make good reading. Yes costs have changed but they would have to add more costs to finance new loans, and all the time CCFC will be spending to keep up and "invest" in the team. ACL would be paying interest and any profits could be paid to its owners (if it stays in the same SBS&L group ) at that point there are large accumulated losses in SBS&L and no dividends could be paid outside of the group for some time.

They could put a new company in above SBS&L of course but to meet its overheads, interest and dividends it would have to draw profits from ACL, unlikely to be CCFC profits as they are loss making. Catch with that of course is that then ACL which makes profits would be expected to fund (a) its own borrowings (b) the losses at CCFC, borrowings and/or investment at CCFC and (c) the overheads, interest and dividends at "new co". Only so far the pot can go surely. But that situation also gives it a more tenuous link to CCFC doesn't it - with all that could mean.

Because of the borrowings involved in a combined group I just do not see it in the same positive light you do.

I think the SISU intention would still be to get ownership and either flip it on as they intended before or remortgage to the maximum to be able to withdraw funds for ARVO/Sconset

Grendel said:

What I don't get is why a faceless consortium for a west London rugby club is more acceptable than a faceless hedge fund that owns the club.

What about all this protecting the community asset bollocks as well.

Double standards.

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I don't think it is, it's just it seems the west London one want to buy ACLand see that they can make a profit from doing so.

Whereas the second one say this profit can only be done by building a new stadium.

The hope is the second one is bluffing about a new stadium and will see off the other suitor and get on with buying ACL.

Ian1779 said:

Taking the SISU factor out of it for one second, the club does not have the funds or assets to buy anything, nevermind a stadium or a controlling stake in ACL. So the stadium/lease/whatever would be owned by a 'different' company.

Personally I believe that if the owners were to take control of ACL in it's entirety, then there would be enough income generated that could be classed as 'FFP' and 'non-FFP' in order to run the football club competitively as well as pay a dividend to shareholders.

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Yep lets hope they stop playing the games that has created this whole situation and step up to the plate and buy ACL.

Otis said:

At the end of the day we should all want CCFC in Coventry, playing at the Rioch and definitely not want a sports franchise moving into town.

Too much focus on stopping Sisu and getting them out, where in reality we should all be rooting for Coventry City FC first and foremost.

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Thank the lord Otis, you've come back to us

Deleted member 5849 said:

Thank the lord Otis, you've come back to us

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Nope, it was Astute's lad coming on and posting again!