Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (21 Viewers)

shmmeee · May 5, 2020

MusicDating said:
Do you not think they're reasonable questions to ask?
He admitted that the CV predictions were based on 13yo flu code...

Seems to me like he's had a history of wildly overestimating potential impacts.

We should have just protected the vulnerable at all costs. The failure to protect care homes was/is scandalous.

But that's not to say the scientists shouldn't be challenged too.

He’s one of several advisors to a government that has access to whatever advice it chooses right now. They chose this guy and his advice seemingly wasn’t too different from anyone else’s at the time. The governments response isn’t his fault, it’s the government’s. Whether he himself was right or wrong (and there’s not much evidence he was that wrong).

Most of those “questions” are nonsense from a magazine that has been anti-lockdown from the start. As I say, he’s being put up by the right as a patsy. Posting a dubious hit piece from the fucking Spectator of all places, land of the edge lords, hardly disproves my theory.

fernandopartridge · May 5, 2020

Skybluefaz said:
Cummings feeding a story to distract from the shitshow that is the government response?

The torygraph appears to have sat on it since the end of March or it has been held somewhere for a coincidental release. The cynicism of this bunch of murdering crooks is beyond belief.

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Sky Blue Pete · May 5, 2020

How can they have left those that should have been shielded so wilfully in such danger in care homes

Astute · May 5, 2020

MusicDating said:
Do you not think they're reasonable questions to ask?
He admitted that the CV predictions were based on 13yo flu code...

Seems to me like he's had a history of wildly overestimating potential impacts.

We should have just protected the vulnerable at all costs. The failure to protect care homes was/is scandalous.

But that's not to say the scientists shouldn't be challenged too.

So what should any thoughts be based on at a time they knew hardly anything about the virus?

Scientists are like many other 'experts'. They make their guesstimates from previous data and make an educated guess on the rest. That is why so many disagree with each other. And until they solve the problem we won't know which are right and which are wrong.

Astute · May 5, 2020

Sky Blue Pete said:
How can they have left those that should have been shielded so wilfully in such danger in care homes

Half of me thinks that there was too much for the NHS to cope with at the same time. Most countries seem to have had the same problem. The other half of me thinks that they didn't care too much about the care homes. They will save a lot of money in the future by not having to care for those no longer with us.

MusicDating · May 5, 2020

shmmeee said:
He’s one of several advisors to a government that has access to whatever advice it chooses right now. They chose this guy and his advice seemingly wasn’t too different from anyone else’s at the time. The governments response isn’t his fault, it’s the government’s. Whether he himself was right or wrong (and there’s not much evidence he was that wrong).

Most of those “questions” are nonsense from a magazine that has been anti-lockdown from the start. As I say, he’s being put up by the right as a patsy. Posting a dubious hit piece from the fucking Spectator of all places, land of the edge lords, hardly disproves my theory.

A challenging question is still valid irrespective of the persuasion of who's asking it.

The Govt has got so much wrong. They panicked about hospital beds that they cheerfully sent untested CV positive cases back to unprepared care homes which has killed thousands.

However, no one involved should be excluded from questioning.

wingy · May 5, 2020

I wonder if Philip Schofield is going to drag them over the coals on his show for refusing to say Sorry?

Ian1779 · May 5, 2020

Astute said:
Half of me thinks that there was too much for the NHS to cope with at the same time. Most countries seem to have had the same problem. The other half of me thinks that they didn't care too much about the care homes. They will save a lot of money in the future by not having to care for those no longer with us.

I’m going with the other half

MusicDating · May 5, 2020

Ian1779 said:
I’m going with the other half

Yup and solve a few pension deficits...

Ian1779 · May 5, 2020

MusicDating said:
Yup and solve a few pension deficits...

Let’s be honest - once they get to a care home it’s unlikely they’ll be voting anymore - they can become obsolete then in the eyes of a Tory... plenty more to recruit from Facebook to fill their place.

Brighton Sky Blue · May 5, 2020

Astute said:
Is that the same as when you told someone who has higher qualifications than yourself that he is wrong about something and you know that because you have a degree. So he shows you the proof that he is right. Then you go silent on the subject?

Really? When did this happen?

Is it not obvious that I think Brexit is a load of toss and I wouldn't really want a clock to ring for it?

Brighton Sky Blue · May 5, 2020

Astute said:
So what should any thoughts be based on at a time they knew hardly anything about the virus?

Scientists are like many other 'experts'. They make their guesstimates from previous data and make an educated guess on the rest. That is why so many disagree with each other. And until they solve the problem we won't know which are right and which are wrong.

Really is incredible how well you know this profession

fernandopartridge · May 5, 2020

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Really is incredible how well you know this profession

Guesstimate lol

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Astute · May 5, 2020

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Really? When did this happen?

Is it not obvious that I think Brexit is a load of toss and I wouldn't really want a clock to ring for it?

Do you need me to remind you about smokers having less chance of getting the virus and smokers also having a good recovery rate when they did get the virus. Then you said you knew it was wrong and you knew more than me because you have a degree. I then showed you the proof. You then went quiet.

But you know all this.

Astute · May 5, 2020

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Really is incredible how well you know this profession

So tell me where I am wrong. You are normally good at doing so.

Ring Of Steel · May 5, 2020

I looked and Italy has 1,500,000 more over 70s than the U.K.- the most vulnerable group. Yet still we have more deaths than Italy- with no end in sight yet.

And then this, the usual attempt to avoid all scrutiny- on top of Hancock getting aggressive at the woman asking a simple question earlier on you have to assume that our leaders really don’t care about their citizens very much.

Sky Blue Pete · May 5, 2020

Brazil and USA deserve to get the virus bad because of their leaders but you can’t help feeling for the poor in their countries who will pay for their wilful ignorance with their lives

Brighton Sky Blue · May 5, 2020

Astute said:
Do you need me to remind you about smokers having less chance of getting the virus and smokers also having a good recovery rate when they did get the virus. Then you said you knew it was wrong and you knew more than me because you have a degree. I then showed you the proof. You then went quiet.

But you know all this.

I offered a possible explanation for any unexpected resistance to infection and stated that if someone's respiratory system is already damaged by smoking they will not fare well if infected. This isn't controversial, it's an extremely relevant pre-existing condition. Still you seemed to genuinely think I wanted Big Ben to ring to celebrate something I think is shit.

Astute said:
So tell me where I am wrong. You are normally good at doing so.

Science is an enormous field with hundreds or thousands of sub-disciplines. In most of them though we try to carry out experiments to test ideas and gather more data to achieve that. You seem to be focussing on the epidemiologists who have been looking at things from a statistical viewpoint and ignoring the other 'experts' developing vaccines and anti-virals, and attempting to properly understand all manner of things about how the virus works. We don't just use 'guesstimates' to guide what we do.

Astute · May 5, 2020

Ring Of Steel said:
I looked and Italy has 1,500,000 more over 70s than the U.K.- the most vulnerable group. Yet still we have more deaths than Italy- with no end in sight yet.

And then this, the usual attempt to avoid all scrutiny- on top of Hancock getting aggressive at the woman asking a simple question earlier on you have to assume that our leaders really don’t care about their citizens very much.

So the death rate in Italy is accurate? Not many countries have accurate figures including ourselves.

fernandopartridge · May 5, 2020

This is MD from Private Eye. Never mind whether or not somebody is classed as COVID-19:

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Astute · May 6, 2020

Brighton Sky Blue said:
I offered a possible explanation for any unexpected resistance to infection and stated that if someone's respiratory system is already damaged by smoking they will not fare well if infected. This isn't controversial, it's an extremely relevant pre-existing condition. Still you seemed to genuinely think I wanted Big Ben to ring to celebrate something I think is shit.

Science is an enormous field with hundreds or thousands of sub-disciplines. In most of them though we try to carry out experiments to test ideas and gather more data to achieve that. You seem to be focussing on the epidemiologists who have been looking at things from a statistical viewpoint and ignoring the other 'experts' developing vaccines and anti-virals, and attempting to properly understand all manner of things about how the virus works. We don't just use 'guesstimates' to guide what we do.

No. You stated I was wrong as you have a degree and I don't. You put it in them actual words. No need to lie about it. The best of it is you don't have a clue about my qualifications as I don't brag about my own. You then brag about your earnings as though they are something special. They are not. You are just an underpaid teacher who should be on a higher wage.

And I didn't specify any kind of scientist. They work on possibilities and probabilities. If they are so accurate would you like to explain why they can't agree on what is happening with the virus? Of course not. But you do like to make yourself seem better than you really are.

Brighton Sky Blue · May 6, 2020

Astute said:
No. You stated I was wrong as you have a degree and I don't. You put it in them actual words. No need to lie about it. The best of it is you don't have a clue about my qualifications as I don't brag about my own. You then brag about your earnings as though they are something special. They are not. You are just an underpaid teacher who should be on a higher wage.

And I didn't specify any kind of scientist. They work on possibilities and probabilities. If they are so accurate would you like to explain why they can't agree on what is happening with the virus? Of course not. But you do like to make yourself seem better than you really are.

1. No I stated I had a very relevant degree and background to the topic of debate. It's not me saying I have a BA in Film Studies so I know all about the world's goings on.

2. Never bragged about my earnings, have complained a few times though. Coventrian and G indulge in that semi often mind you

3. This is the problem with you putting all scientists under the same umbrella. This disease is novel and you can't get all the answers about it immediately-research has to happen and experiments need to be double and triple verified. It takes time to get to the truth for something as complex as this but the work is being put in. It doesn't mean that the scientific community makes it up as they go along as you seem to suggest and having never worked in it (correct me if I'm wrong) I don't see how you can claim that

Astute · May 6, 2020

Brighton Sky Blue said:
1. No I stated I had a very relevant degree and background to the topic of debate. It's not me saying I have a BA in Film Studies so I know all about the world's goings on.

2. Never bragged about my earnings, have complained a few times though. Coventrian and G indulge in that semi often mind you

3. This is the problem with you putting all scientists under the same umbrella. This disease is novel and you can't get all the answers about it immediately-research has to happen and experiments need to be double and triple verified. It takes time to get to the truth for something as complex as this but the work is being put in. It doesn't mean that the scientific community makes it up as they go along as you seem to suggest and having never worked in it (correct me if I'm wrong) I don't see how you can claim that

1, Lies. You stated I was wrong when I said it looked like smokers had much less chance of getting the virus. You said you knew as you had a degree and I didn't. I found that quite funny as I have continued to get qualifications all my working life. Even funnier when you saw you was wrong.

2, Are you saying you haven't mentioned your earnings several times before? Not bothered what others have said. That isn't a get out clause.

3, Show me where I have put them all under the same umbrella. Show me where I have said they make it up as they go along. I try to use words on an open forum that everyone can understand. You can understand what I am saying but try to use it to your advantage. If you like I can start using words you will need your dictionary for. Or if you like we can take this to PM. I will prove to you in private that I am not below the level you see yourself as. But I am not going to state things that I see as private even though you are happy to divulge the information about yourself on an open forum.

Brighton Sky Blue · May 6, 2020

Astute said:
1, Lies. You stated I was wrong when I said it looked like smokers had much less chance of getting the virus. You said you knew as you had a degree and I didn't. I found that quite funny as I have continued to get qualifications all my working life. Even funnier when you saw you was wrong.

2, Are you saying you haven't mentioned your earnings several times before? Not bothered what others have said. That isn't a get out clause.

3, Show me where I have put them all under the same umbrella. Show me where I have said they make it up as they go along. I try to use words on an open forum that everyone can understand. You can understand what I am saying but try to use it to your advantage. If you like I can start using words you will need your dictionary for. Or if you like we can take this to PM. I will prove to you in private that I am not below the level you see yourself as. But I am not going to state things that I see as private even though you are happy to divulge the information about yourself on an open forum.

No I suggested a possible reason for the statistics. You keep missing out that I said I had relevant qualifications and experiences, not just 'I have a degree therefore know more'. I also don't see where it's mentioned that those with respiratory conditions are less likely to develop serious symptoms if they catch the disease. I haven't bragged about what I earn anywhere and as I keep saying, I've complained about it being relatively low a number of times. Because of what I do if anything I have to take care to avoid revealing anything that could allow me to be identified and don't think I've done that anywhere.

You have made some generalisations about scientists and what they do. I don't think I actually ever said you were uneducated but just that you haven't worked in science or at least it looks that way. You do also seem to misinterpret or miscomprehend things quite often and I'm not the only one to point it out. Not an insult just an observation

Astute · May 6, 2020

Brighton Sky Blue said:
No I suggested a possible reason for the statistics. You keep missing out that I said I had relevant qualifications and experiences, not just 'I have a degree therefore know more'. I also don't see where it's mentioned that those with respiratory conditions are less likely to develop serious symptoms if they catch the disease. I haven't bragged about what I earn anywhere and as I keep saying, I've complained about it being relatively low a number of times. Because of what I do if anything I have to take care to avoid revealing anything that could allow me to be identified and don't think I've done that anywhere.

You have made some generalisations about scientists and what they do. I don't think I actually ever said you were uneducated but just that you haven't worked in science or at least it looks that way. You do also seem to misinterpret or miscomprehend things quite often and I'm not the only one to point it out. Not an insult just an observation

More like the same old faces that don't like me saying anything against Labour. I'm fine saying anything against the Tories but not a word against Labour.

And yes you did word it that way. Exactly that way. You said you have a degree So you know that smokers would more probably die. Off to work now. Will quote your post if I get a chance ti find it.

Astute · May 6, 2020

Astute said:
Smokers 80% less likely to get the virus?

French researchers to test nicotine patches on coronavirus patients

We were then having a debate on if nicotine is the reason. They have been trialling nicotine patches. But then you came in waving your dick around as usual. And strangely enough aimed at myself and not one other person that had been talking about it.

Brighton Sky Blue said:
I don’t know if you’re being facetious but infection rate and the severity of the infection are two different things. If I had to make an educated guess I would put it down to one or several of the hundreds of chemicals in tobacco smoke that is hostile to the virus. I could imagine this in particular in houses covered in ash over the years.

If you’re a regular smoker however and get infected then you’re in big big trouble. And I know I get pulled up for ‘I have a degree’ but here it’s directly relevant-I’m not just guessing

Then when you saw the evidence you went quiet as you couldn't defend your comments.

clint van damme · May 6, 2020

Deleted member 5849 said:
That sounds... rational.

Well it could potentially be lay offs after that with still no return date confirmed.

Astute · May 6, 2020

clint van damme said:
Well it could potentially be lay offs after that with still no return date confirmed.

Hopefully you will be OK. Italy and Spain were the first to implement lockdown rules. They are starting to relax them now. France were a week behind them. They start to relax theirs next week. We were a week behind France so hopefully we will be a week after them.

The one thing to be unsure about is what they see as a 70 day cycle. However an outbreak is dealt with it seems to take about 70 days to bring under control. It doesn't follow normal logic. Maybe many don't show symptoms to the virus so there are less chances than we think of getting another spread. But we won't know until countries reopen.

SkyBlueCharlie9 · May 6, 2020

We are an island so we should have been able to restrict the spread more easily than other European countries. A right royal fcuk up from the Tory's.

Brighton Sky Blue · May 6, 2020

Astute said:
We were then having a debate on if nicotine is the reason. They have been trialling nicotine patches. But then you came in waving your dick around as usual. And strangely enough aimed at myself and not one other person that had been talking about it.

Then when you saw the evidence you went quiet as you couldn't defend your comments.

Because it wasn’t clear whether or not you knew the difference between infection rate and severity, as I said at the time I genuinely wasn’t sure. But you have quoted me saying my degree was relevant-you have understood that as ‘look I have one’ when it’s clear I mean that it’s in a relevant subject.

It’s again you misunderstanding what people write here

Astute · May 6, 2020

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Because it wasn’t clear whether or not you knew the difference between infection rate and severity, as I said at the time I genuinely wasn’t sure. But you have quoted me saying my degree was relevant-you have understood that as ‘look I have one’ when it’s clear I mean that it’s in a relevant subject.

It’s again you misunderstanding what people write here

Try reading again what you said yourself. Anyone who smoked and git the virus was in serious trouble. And you know that because of your degree. But the truth looks to be the total opposite. And as usual I get into a stupid argument because someone tries to lie instead of just admitting the truth.

Sky Blue Pete · May 6, 2020

Astute said:
Hopefully you will be OK. Italy and Spain were the first to implement lockdown rules. They are starting to relax them now. France were a week behind them. They start to relax theirs next week. We were a week behind France so hopefully we will be a week after them.

The one thing to be unsure about is what they see as a 70 day cycle. However an outbreak is dealt with it seems to take about 70 days to bring under control. It doesn't follow normal logic. Maybe many don't show symptoms to the virus so there are less chances than we think of getting another spread. But we won't know until countries reopen.

We still have 4000 positive tests a day they are much lower aren’t they? I think probably because their lockdowns were more severe. Who knows? Rumours about this level being acceptable going forward until we get a vaccination. Risky

Brighton Sky Blue · May 6, 2020

Astute said:
Try reading again what you said yourself. Anyone who smoked and git the virus was in serious trouble. And you know that because of your degree. But the truth looks to be the total opposite. And as usual I get into a stupid argument because someone tries to lie instead of just admitting the truth.

I have read it again-I said my degree, as in the discipline it was in, was relevant. Are you saying that someone with respiratory problems isn’t in trouble if they get Covid?

tisza · May 6, 2020

SkyBlueCharlie9 said:
We are an island so we should have been able to restrict the spread more easily than other European countries. A right royal fcuk up from the Tory's.

A friend of my mother finally got back from Japan yesterday.
2 layovers where they were checked etc. Walked through Heathrow no checks or even details collected for self-quarantining.

SkyBlueDom26 · May 6, 2020

Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (21 Viewers)

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