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Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (24 Viewers)

  • Thread starter BackRoomRummermill
  • Start date Feb 23, 2020
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B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 17, 2020
  • #17,501
Astute said:
Which is what I said at the time and many tried to make out that I am a Tory voter.

Just look on here. Whatever Corbyn did he got full support. He was supposed to have done the right thing on not saying leave or remain clearly. A fair few did see it as a problem though.

And it is the same for both Labour and Tory voters. They only see what they want to see and ignore what is wrong. So you won't lose the hardcore voters easily. You need to aim for the floating voters. Most are not rich or poor. Free internet was never going to win their vote. Those who wanted out of the EU went Tory. Those who wanted to remain were spread over the parties. But they knew the things that wouldn't benefit them much would have to be paid for.

The Tories offered next to nothing. So there wasn't a lot to worry about.

Yes life is shit. If life is OK for the majority they don't need change. But offer them something that could improve their life and look realistic and you win votes.

Most people will say they care about those having a hard time in life. But when it comes to it most will vote for what is best for themselves.
Click to expand...

That isn’t true is it, I don’t remember anyone except Ian saying that Corbyn would win and nobody was praising him at every turn. I wanted him gone for months before the election and just about put a cross in the box for Labour because the alternative was worse.
 

Wyken Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 17, 2020
  • #17,502
Norman Hunter has passed away after contracting Covid-19:
Norman Hunter: Leeds United legend dies after contracting coronavirus
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 17, 2020
  • #17,503
Astute said:
But not so left to alienate the floating voters.

Things changed when Scotland was lost to Labour. We need left wing policies but left wing policies don't get you in power anymore. The only chance we have is Starmer doing what John Smith did in the 90's. If not we will be under Tory rule for a long time.
Click to expand...

But Labour lost out to the SNP in Scotland, another left wing party. Arguably more left than Labour is.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 17, 2020
  • #17,504
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
But Labour lost out to the SNP in Scotland, another left wing party. Arguably more left than Labour is.
Click to expand...

Not more left than Corbyn but helping the Tories in 2014 has killed Labour up there. Just like helping the Tories killed the Lib Dems and the DUP.
 
Reactions: Ian1779
D

djr8369

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 17, 2020
  • #17,505
Astute said:
But not so left to alienate the floating voters.

Things changed when Scotland was lost to Labour. We need left wing policies but left wing policies don't get you in power anymore. The only chance we have is Starmer doing what John Smith did in the 90's. If not we will be under Tory rule for a long time.
Click to expand...

In fairness Astute I don't think policies make a dammed bit of difference these days. It's all personality, perception and framing.
 
Reactions: fernandopartridge, Astute, Sky_Blue_Dreamer and 1 other person
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 17, 2020
  • #17,506
djr8369 said:
In fairness Astute I don't think policies make a dammed bit of difference these days. It's all personality, perception and framing.
Click to expand...

G was right about one thing, policies don’t win elections. It’s all about conning a big enough coalition into believing you can do the job. The Tories have boomers and dumbasses and while we could get the dumbasses I think the boomers are ungettable without the media
 
D

djr8369

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 17, 2020
  • #17,507
Does anybody else think the governments criteria for easing lock down is somewhat foolish considering they have spent the last few weeks telling us we have adequate PPE and any lack is just NHS staff feeling like they can't get enough of it and they are now saying testing is not being used to capacity as there isn't enough demand?

NHS must be able to cope and provide sufficient care - we still have spare beds before any of the new Nightingale hospitals are used.
Evidence showing a sustained and consistent fall in daily death rates - supposedly at the peak now so should start dropping in a week.
Reliable data showing the rate of infection is decreasing to manageable levels.- told last night Ro down below one in the community.
Confidence enough tests and PPE are at hand to use - apparently in hand.
Confidence any adjustments won’t trigger a second peak - unknown, can't see how this will ever be known?
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 17, 2020
  • #17,508
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Not more left than Corbyn but helping the Tories in 2014 has killed Labour up there. Just like helping the Tories killed the Lib Dems and the DUP.
Click to expand...

It would be nice to know how you manage to fool so many people it's the other part that's to blame not you. Common factor in all those scenarios - Tories. Yet the blame was taken by the LD, DUP and Labour.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 17, 2020
  • #17,509
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
It would be nice to know how you manage to fool so many people it's the other part that's to blame not you. Common factor in all those scenarios - Tories. Yet the blame was taken by the LD, DUP and Labour.
Click to expand...

Those 3 parties tried to play fairly and got wiped off the floor. You don’t beat the Tories by playing by the rules-we have to be cynical and kick them in the balls
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Apr 17, 2020
  • #17,510
djr8369 said:
Confidence any adjustments won’t trigger a second peak - unknown, can't see how this will ever be known?
Click to expand...
Watching what happens in other countries who blink first would be a good indicator.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 17, 2020
  • #17,511
Ring Of Steel said:
You're definitely a floater alright
Click to expand...
No ones shot his dingy yet to sink it so clearly he is a floating voter.
 
Reactions: Brighton Sky Blue
D

djr8369

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 17, 2020
  • #17,512
Brighton Sky Blue said:
G was right about one thing, policies don’t win elections. It’s all about conning a big enough coalition into believing you can do the job. The Tories have boomers and dumbasses and while we could get the dumbasses I think the boomers are ungettable without the media
Click to expand...

Only thing you could do with the boomers is try and outdo the tories at their targeted messaging and spend millions on pretend think tanks and campaign groups. I doubt that will ever work now the boomers are living through their WW2 by staying at home, watching TV and clapping and can now finally shrug off the inadequacy they felt compared to their parents and grandparents.

This might sound harsh but the surge in support for Johnson shows the government are perceived as doing a good job and the community spirit (Blitz spirit if you will) will stick in people's heads. Unless they personally experience a loss or have a loved one who works in the NHS and is critical of the government there will be no change in allegiance away from the tories.
 
D

djr8369

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 17, 2020
  • #17,513
Deleted member 5849 said:
Watching what happens in other countries who blink first would be a good indicator.
Click to expand...

Yes that is the only thing I can think of.

Of course, that would be comparing apples and bananas and we would never do that would we?
 

Johnnythespider

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 17, 2020
  • #17,514
shmmeee said:
Why Labour won’t get elected in a nutshell.

Can we please stop the petty infighting and actually try and win an election?
Click to expand...
Precisely my point, people who wouldn't get behind Corbyn for the good of the party now telling people to get behind Starmer for the good of the party, and then saying we need left wing policies when the best we can hope for is tory lite, FWIW i voted for Starmer, hated doing it but we need to end this tory shit show, but i may not vote labour at an election as i don't think they ate going to offer the social reform i think we need, just more cap doffing and forelock tugging tradition.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 17, 2020
  • #17,515
djr8369 said:
Only thing you could do with the boomers is try and outdo the tories at their targeted messaging and spend millions on pretend think tanks and campaign groups. I doubt that will ever work now the boomers are living through their WW2 by staying at home, watching TV and clapping and can now finally shrug off the inadequacy they felt compared to their parents and grandparents.

This might sound harsh but the surge in support for Johnson shows the government are perceived as doing a good job and the community spirit (Blitz spirit if you will) will stick in people's heads. Unless they personally experience a loss or have a loved one who works in the NHS and is critical of the government there will be no change in allegiance away from the tories.
Click to expand...

You would need a major news network on side along with a major right or centre right newspaper and that’s never happening here. Johnson has had the virus and will take the credit for it going away-it’s the equivalent of Churchill taking a bullet in terms of effect on popularity
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Apr 17, 2020
  • #17,516
djr8369 said:
Yes that is the only thing I can think of.

Of course, that would be comparing apples and bananas and we would never do that would we?
Click to expand...
tbf, it depends how you compare. I agree that comparing absolute numbers is futile. Even trends can be tenuous at times, but there is something to be said for comparing what happens in response to what.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Apr 17, 2020
  • #17,517
Johnnythespider said:
Precisely my point, people who wouldn't get behind Corbyn for the good of the party now telling people to get behind Starmer for the good of the party, and then saying we need left wing policies when the best we can hope for is tory lite, FWIW i voted for Starmer, hated doing it but we need to end this tory shit show, but i may not vote labour at an election as i don't think they ate going to offer the social reform i think we need, just more cap doffing and forelock tugging tradition.
Click to expand...
tbf, as previously mentioned, what he stood on was surprisingly left wing. I expected more moderate although tbf, it just shows what happens when a man wears a suit, they're perceived as being centre or right leaning!
 
Reactions: clint van damme
D

djr8369

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 17, 2020
  • #17,518
djr8369 said:
Yes that is the only thing I can think of.

Of course, that would be comparing apples and bananas and we would never do that would we?
Click to expand...

On that, and going back to the governments communication, it was telling the other day when a journalist mentioned that France were including care home deaths in their stats and if we did the same we'd have somewhat higher deaths than they have. Of course, the journalist was quickly pointed out as being foolish to compare two different countries with different circumstances even though minutes before we had been shown the cumulative death graphs where it was pointed out we were doing well relative to France and Spain.

It's disturbing how often we are being asked to believe two conflicting ideas.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer and wingy
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 17, 2020
  • #17,519
djr8369 said:
On that, and going back to the governments communication, it was telling the other day when a journalist mentioned that France were including care home deaths in their stats and if we did the same we'd have somewhat higher deaths than they have. Of course, the journalist was quickly pointed out as being foolish to compare two different countries with different circumstances even though minutes before we had been shown the cumulative death graphs where it was pointed out we were doing well relative to France and Spain.

It's disturbing how often we are being asked to believe two conflicting ideas.
Click to expand...

This is like two people comparing underwear after shitting themselves
 
Reactions: wingy
D

djr8369

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 17, 2020
  • #17,520
Deleted member 5849 said:
tbf, it depends how you compare. I agree that comparing absolute numbers is futile. Even trends can be tenuous at times, but there is something to be said for comparing what happens in response to what.
Click to expand...

Yes quite, I was being facetious as "not comparing apples and oranges" and such is so frequently being used as a get out for any questioning of how well the government has handled things.
 
D

djr8369

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 17, 2020
  • #17,521
Brighton Sky Blue said:
This is like two people comparing underwear after shitting themselves
Click to expand...

The government has not shit itself it is just following the science which is mixed on the effectiveness of toilets.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 17, 2020
  • #17,522
djr8369 said:
The government has not shit itself it is just following the science which is mixed on the effectiveness of toilets.
Click to expand...

We’re doing better than France because they had diarrhoea and it went everywhere but we had a solid Yule log and haven’t sat down yet so time to scrape it out into the bog
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 17, 2020
  • #17,523
I see the latest right wing conspiracy is that Bill Gates done it. It’s gaining traction with Trump supporters too.
 

Johnnythespider

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 17, 2020
  • #17,524
Deleted member 5849 said:
tbf, as previously mentioned, what he stood on was surprisingly left wing. I expected more moderate although tbf, it just shows what happens when a man wears a suit, they're perceived as being centre or right leaning!
Click to expand...
I'm giving him a chance, we'll see how it pans out over the next 5 years
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 17, 2020
  • #17,525
Johnnythespider said:
I'm giving him a chance, we'll see how it pans out over the next 5 years
Click to expand...

I predict:

Tories 350-400
Labour 200-250
SNP 30-50
LD 0-20
 
D

djr8369

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 17, 2020
  • #17,526
Looking at this infographic from a Mail online article and it looks like it is based on the artwork of the board game Pandemic.
 

Attachments

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Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 17, 2020
  • #17,527
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
But Labour lost out to the SNP in Scotland, another left wing party. Arguably more left than Labour is.
Click to expand...
Labour lost out in Scotland to.a Scottish party. Not said anything differently but of course some will make out I have. Nothing to do with left, right or down the middle.

My comment was all about Labour having to make up the difference in the rest of the UK.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 17, 2020
  • #17,528
Johnnythespider said:
I'm giving him a chance, we'll see how it pans out over the next 5 years
Click to expand...
We will know well within 5 years. We will know within 5 months. Should we not say anything if we think he is useless at being leader for the next 5 years?
 

tisza

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 17, 2020
  • #17,529
would have thought the next election will still be about Brexit.
Either the country "survives" it and moves forward then it'll be a Tory win.
It's not worked out and Labour will be promising to fix it (and win)
 
Reactions: Astute

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 17, 2020
  • #17,530
tisza said:
would have thought the next election will still be about Brexit.
Either the country "survives" it and moves forward then it'll be a Tory win.
It's not worked out and Labour will be promising to fix it (and win)
Click to expand...
We are about to have a worldwide recession. Nobody knows what will happen in the next 12 months.

If we do badly but the EU manages to recover there will be calls to rejoin. If we recover but the EU does badly it won't be seen as a choice to take.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 17, 2020
  • #17,531
djr8369 said:
In fairness Astute I don't think policies make a dammed bit of difference these days. It's all personality, perception and framing.
Click to expand...
Which is what I kept saying last year. But I was wrong then.

Policies that worry people makes a difference. No policies doesn't worry the majority. The world has gone mad.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 17, 2020
  • #17,532
Astute said:
Which is what I kept saying last year. But I was wrong then.

Policies that worry people makes a difference. No policies doesn't worry the majority. The world has gone mad.
Click to expand...

The Tory manifesto of 2017 contained promises to not pay nurses and teachers properly
 
Reactions: Sick Boy

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 17, 2020
  • #17,533
The coventrian said:
You're just a one eyed arsehole. It's the likes of you that labour need to rid itself of. Maybe then the labour party will appeal to the normal every day man in the street and not arrogant cocks like you.
Click to expand...
If you think I’m the problem with Labour then you’re even thicker than I thought. Loving Brexit and wanting to drown migrants doesn’t make you working class - it makes you an arsehole.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy, skyblueheaven, shmmeee and 1 other person

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 17, 2020
  • #17,534
djr8369 said:
In fairness to Starmer even his very even handed comment that now isn't a time for political point scoring but the government needs to be held to account was reported out of context and described as political point scoring. Presumably he is trying to walk a very fine line. The tories have incredible levels of loyalty from a large portion of the nation due to Brexit of the creative use of propaganda and it is going to be very difficult for labour to start to eat away at that. It certainly won't happen by being heavy handed while everyone is on edge and Johnson's ratings are going up even though we are one of the hardest hit and worse prepared countries.
Click to expand...

I totally disagree. We've tried the civil discourse under Corbyn it doesn't work.
We also seen Piers Morgan reach new levels of popularity since launching his daily attacks on the government. People want them held to account, even Michael Gove said they should be scrutinised.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 17, 2020
  • #17,535
Astute said:
Which is what I kept saying last year. But I was wrong then.

Policies that worry people makes a difference. No policies doesn't worry the majority. The world has gone mad.
Click to expand...

so you must be worried about Starmer then as there's not a lot of difference between what he's pledged and the 2019 manifesto.
Unless you think the offer of free broadband was the big issue of the election.
 
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