Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (20 Viewers)

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Apr 14, 2020

Grendel said:
Dividends for business owners are a form of salary you have a very distorted view that most SME owners are just trying to extract income and have no regard for the long term - to suggest arrogantly businesses can somehow survive with no income for 6 months while still paying salaries and bills and it’s their lack of prudence that’s to blame is mind blowing. I’d love to see you explain that to such people

I wasn't claiming any such thing. As I said if this business you're talking about had more liquidity and wasn't taking dividends and so was being run prudently in comparison to others and looking to grow the business yet are still massively at risk it highlights how bad the problem is.

As I said at the time we were turning a lot of sole traders etc in ltd's and the dividends would replace what they would have before taken out as drawings. Nowhere does that suggest they were looking to take every penny out - they weren't. They often paid themselves very low wages and this was a 'top up' of that depending on if the business had done well. They kept a lot in the business as either a buffer or to grow as well. (Although I'd have thought you'd consider them silly for doing so rather than taking it to splash out on stuff to 'better themselves'.

Btw dividends and salaries are completely different. The tax treatment and rates of both are different.

Ring Of Steel · Apr 14, 2020

Grendel said:
Dividends for business owners are a form of salary you have a very distorted view that most SME owners are just trying to extract income and have no regard for the long term - to suggest arrogantly businesses can somehow survive with no income for 6 months while still paying salaries and bills and it’s their lack of prudence that’s to blame is mind blowing. I’d love to see you explain that to such people

I would respectfully suggest that you’re both saying something similar, I don’t think he’s insinuating that the owners are trying to screw over their own companies, just that there are more efficient ways & mechanisms of using their companys’ assets to reap personal rewards than just by taking a salary. Very often you’ll find owners taking a very low monthly salary for this very reason, they use other ways to compensate themselves depending on how the company performs. Not saying you’re wrong either btw.

Grendel · Apr 14, 2020

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
I wasn't claiming any such thing. As I said if this business you're talking about had more liquidity and wasn't taking dividends and so was being run prudently in comparison to others and looking to grow the business yet are still massively at risk it highlights how bad the problem is.

As I said at the time we were turning a lot of sole traders etc in ltd's and the dividends would replace what they would have before taken out as drawings. Nowhere does that suggest they were looking to take every penny out - they weren't. They often paid themselves very low wages and this was a 'top up' of that depending on if the business had done well. They kept a lot in the business as either a buffer or to grow as well. (Although I'd have thought you'd consider them silly for doing so rather than taking it to splash out on stuff to 'better themselves'.

Btw dividends and salaries are completely different. The tax treatment and rates of both are different.

I know the tax treatments are different? You aren’t one of these SME advisor idiots that couldn’t run a chip shop in real life are you?

Ring Of Steel · Apr 14, 2020

Grendel said:
I know the tax treatments are different? You aren’t one of these SME advisor idiots that couldn’t run a chip shop in real life are you?

I dunno, I knew a guy that had a chip van who was absolutely raking it in- ‘Tommy Tucks’ he was called... only problem was that it turned out he was selling cocaine and weed as well as chip butties

SkyBlueCharlie9 · Apr 14, 2020

Grendel said:
Not to compare countries as it’s frequently acknowledged that each country has a very different way of recording deaths

What about compared to Ireland?

SkyBlueDom26 · Apr 14, 2020

Sick Boy said:
Yes mate it was much better so fingers crossed things are starting to improve a bit more quickly now but have to be prepared for more increases again in the coming days though I think

How come there will be increases mate?

Ring Of Steel · Apr 14, 2020

SkyBlueCharlie9 said:
What about compared to Ireland?

I think over here it’s every death including care homes (which are a horror story) but I will check. Worst day so far over here today- 41 dead. You get very good quality info here with the full breakdown (and no that’s not a pop at U.K.), 187 of the 406 deaths have been in care homes so pretty much 50% of the total.

41 more people have died from Covid-19, 832 new cases

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Apr 14, 2020

Grendel said:
I know the tax treatments are different? You aren’t one of these SME advisor idiots that couldn’t run a chip shop in real life are you?

You seemed obsessed with people running chip shops lately - the lockdown affecting your diet?

And no I'm not one of those advisor idiots - I did accounts for various types of business at a couple of practices for a fair few years.

I assume you didn't mean to end that first sentence in a question mark. If you knew that then why did you say dividends were paid as directors salaries? For tax reasons that's not possible. Plus you can have shareholders of limited companies who aren't directors (hence the limited - separation of ownership and control) Although it tends to be rare it does happen. How would they receive the dividend from the company if they don't get a director's salary?

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Apr 14, 2020

Ring Of Steel said:
I dunno, I knew a guy that had a chip van who was absolutely raking it in- ‘Tommy Tucks’ he was called... only problem was that it turned out he was selling cocaine and weed as well as chip butties

Genius. Sell the weed out the back, they get the munchies and buy chips as well.

Mind you there's quite a few businesses around that I think are just front for other activities and are just essentially devices for laundering money.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Apr 14, 2020

Ring Of Steel said:
I dunno, I knew a guy that had a chip van who was absolutely raking it in- ‘Tommy Tucks’ he was called... only problem was that it turned out he was selling cocaine and weed as well as chip butties

I also wonder if it wasn't 'salt' he put on the chips to make them even moreish.

Ring Of Steel · Apr 14, 2020

Donald Trump has ordered the USA to stop contributing to the WHO because of their failures to deal with China...

David O'Day · Apr 15, 2020

Ring Of Steel said:
Donald Trump has ordered the USA to stop contributing to the WHO because of their failures to deal with China...

The US Congress is in charge of budgets and how they are spent. Likely to be more waffle from an unhinged weirdo.

wingy · Apr 15, 2020

David O'Day said:
The US Congress is in charge of budgets and how they are spent. Likely to be more waffle from an unhinged weirdo.

Playing to the domestic audience.

wingy · Apr 15, 2020

Meanwhile we gave them £200M the other day .

Grendel · Apr 15, 2020

Ring Of Steel said:
Donald Trump has ordered the USA to stop contributing to the WHO because of their failures to deal with China...

The DOW continues to rally and futures are up again. Against all logic it seems. This is purely Trumps focus and is the main interest he has in this election year

Brighton Sky Blue · Apr 15, 2020

Grendel said:
The DOW continues to rally and futures are up again. Against all logic it seems. This is purely Trumps focus and is the main interest he has in this election year

The health of the stock market and the economic health of most Americans are not the same, he should be glad he is up against a dementia patient rather than the dude calling for a 2k UBI

Brighton Sky Blue · Apr 15, 2020

Ring Of Steel said:
yes I can confirm that they’re all over the place on tv giving their views. Apparently the leader had COVID19 quite badly for a while.

While I find what she represents pretty abhorrent I have to admit she's very effective

Johhny Blue · Apr 15, 2020

Ring Of Steel said:
I dunno, I knew a guy that had a chip van who was absolutely raking it in- ‘Tommy Tucks’ he was called... only problem was that it turned out he was selling cocaine and weed as well as chip butties

Fish & Sniffs?

dutchman · Apr 15, 2020

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Genius. Sell the weed out the back, they get the munchies and buy chips as well.

Mind you there's quite a few businesses around that I think are just front for other activities and are just essentially devices for laundering money.

In Holland they're all 'hairdressers' I'm told. Ask where you can buy drugs and you'll be directed to the nearest hair salon. The local poilce are apparently 'oblivious' to this activity which has earned them a lot of derision.

Astute · Apr 15, 2020

shmmeee said:
What I’ve seen is there’s generally two “levels” of racism, one everyone agrees is racism (calling black people w*gs or Asians p**i for example), and one more subtle that people argue over and seems to expand and contract based on who committed it. Stuff like calling a black woman ugly for (a bad) example, I’ve seen people say “that plays into the stereotypes of black women being ugly and therefore is racist” and others say “I’d call them ugly whatever their skin colour so it’s not racism”.

Similarly the slippery slope argument around say “you can’t say Islam has an issue with terrorism because then you’re saying all followers of Islam are terrorists”.

This second form is more nebulous to define and can be very much “I know it when I see it” which makes the rules harder to know ahead of time and feel unfair.

It’s interesting as a white guy to sit and pontificate about, it’s nice to have that luxury, but very hard for those that are definitely feeing prejudice with no clear way to explain why.

My eldest daughter is half Asian. She is in the perfect position to see what racism is all about. She has black hair just like me. But her skin tone is she looks like she has a slight tan.

Racist remarks? Those who don't know her don't have a clue. They carry on as usual. It can be a delight to watch her pull racism to bits. She looks delicate. 5'9" slim and good looking. But she is like myself. Very mellow but she won't take shit from anyone.

You are right on one thing. What a lot of white people see as racism is on a different level on where racism actually is.

Astute · Apr 15, 2020

David O'Day said:
Personal debt? It is the very opposite of incurring more personal debt.

It's people stopping spending money.

I'll repeat this again the paradox of thrift is not an economic theory you implement it is something that governments have to try and counter.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

Personal debt harms the economy in the long run. Billions are lost to interest payments that could be used to purchase items. But to make up for this more loans are needed to make purchases...... It is the banks/credit card providers/loan providers that do well out of this. The rich are mainly Tories. So debt is good for them.

But debt then costs the state a lot of money for those who don't or can't afford to save for their futures.

Astute · Apr 15, 2020

Ring Of Steel said:
What does huge cash reserves mean- that needs context- huge as in a lot of money compared to what most people have in the bank, or enough to cover costs for, say, 3 months?

Company cash reserves are just like personal cash reserves. Every company will be different. But shareholders love their dividends. A big part of what keeps the share prices up.

The company I work for doesn't hold massive cash reserves. It pays out good dividends to shareholders. It constantly reinvests a lot of money. But it is a highly profitable company so doesn't have to hold a lot in reserve. Profits could end up being hit by those who have to save money so purchase lower quality items. But we manufacture consumables. People will always need what we make.

Astute · Apr 15, 2020

An interesting article on looking into how and why the virus affects different people in a different way. Looks like they have identified a specific gene which controls virus protection that could be making the difference.

Is DNA driving coronavirus severity?

skybluetony176 · Apr 15, 2020

Lions led by donkeys Why is coronavirus killing so many more people in the UK than in Ireland? | Elaine Doyle

Macca · Apr 15, 2020

Rubbish comparison really. France would be better

shmmeee · Apr 15, 2020

Macca said:
Rubbish comparison really. France would be better

We’re doing worse than them too

Astute · Apr 15, 2020

shmmeee said:
We’re doing worse than them too

We sure are. Looks like my younger kids will be back at school in about 4 weeks. Could well be over 4 months here.

Sick Boy · Apr 15, 2020

skybluetony176 said:
Lions led by donkeys Why is coronavirus killing so many more people in the UK than in Ireland? | Elaine Doyle

To think it’s only a month since The Cheltenham Festival.

skybluetony176 · Apr 15, 2020

Macca said:
Rubbish comparison really. France would be better

In what way?

skybluetony176 · Apr 15, 2020

Sick Boy said:
To think it’s only a month since The Cheltenham Festival.

Isn’t that where Hill thinks he got it (assuming it was “it” and not seasonal flu).

Grendel · Apr 15, 2020

Brighton Sky Blue said:
The health of the stock market and the economic health of most Americans are not the same, he should be glad he is up against a dementia patient rather than the dude calling for a 2k UBI

I have no doubt that Trump will be the one leader when balancing the scales of Jobs and public health will go the jobs line unless he’s stopped. He knows his voters will be there if he can prove he’s got people back to work. The American guy on here is not alone with his views on trump despite his increased erratic behaviour. He’s now resembling the fictional character Greg Stilson more and more

It will be interesting how far trump will go with Biden given some of the more outlandish rumours about Biden on the net

Ian1779 · Apr 15, 2020

skybluetony176 said:
So what would you do?

Minister for Deflection and Whataboutery?

Grendel · Apr 15, 2020

Ian1779 said:
Minister for Deflection and Whataboutery?

I that job has already been taken Ian

clint van damme · Apr 15, 2020

back in work today. Got an e-mail yesterday to say I've been taken off furlough.
This contradicts the original furlough guidelines I was given but apparently they've changed so as far as works concerned I'm expecting to be in out like a violinists elbow for the next few weeks.

jimmyhillsfanclub · Apr 15, 2020

shmmeee said:
We’re doing worse than them too

I'm not sure what metrics you're using to come to that conclusion.....France have more deaths, more cases, more critical cases & less testing.....

....I'd say were both doing pretty shit....but France are marginally shitter....

Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (20 Viewers)

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