Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (21 Viewers)

Astute · Mar 19, 2020

RegTheDonk said:
Sorry to be thick, so taking Hill as an example who's having a pretty rough time and quite probably has this. In a couple of weeks he's over it and will have antibodies protecting him - any close contact with family/friends, he'll pass his immunity onto them, rather than giving them the lurgy?

It is how immunisation works. Gives you a lower rate if a virus. Your body fights it off. But when it shows up again it fights it off.

Hills body will have fought it off. So his body will be ready for it next time. So he shouldn't catch it again. But he won't be contagious.

That is the reasoning of letting enough people catch it so hospitals can cope but we become immune to it over time. Most don't have much if a problem fighting it off.

They say an 80% immunisation is the lowest point where it would struggle to survive. Personally I'd see it above this. But I am not an expert.

Grendel · Mar 19, 2020

Ring Of Steel said:
Meanwhile, back on planet reality...

UK faces 'massive shortage' of ventilators - Swiss manufacturer

"Last week, Hamilton Medical shipped 400 ventilators to Italy, whose intensive care units have been overwhelmed by more than 35,000 cases of the rapidly spreading virus and almost 3,000 deaths."
"Germany’s Draegerwerk (DRWG_p.DE) last week got a government order for 10,000, equal to a typical year’s production."
"Wieland’s company in the Swiss Alps has boosted normal production of some 15,000 ventilators annually by 30-40% and now can produce about 80 ventilators daily."
"He has orders from the United States, Turkey, France and China, where in January he stocked up on components in anticipation of rising demand as the virus spread from its origins in Wuhan."

Meanwhile, Matt Hancock is parading around on TV talking about getting car factories to rustle a few up for us.

So nome have been shipped other than 400 to a chronically overwhelmed Italy

Astute · Mar 19, 2020

PVA said:
Yep and as I said the only ones who either don't understand it, or try to pick holes in it, are the ones that were banging the herd immunity drum and back the government. Funny that!

Pick a hole in it?

I have asked one simple question. And none if you will answer it.

What does a downwards curve look like in your graph?

CCFCSteve · Mar 19, 2020

This whole graph debate has gone on way too long. Can’t we agree that both sides of the argument have points.

For example I suppose the death rates are useful to know, to see the potential spike(s), however, I’d rather know the deaths per actual cases as I think that’s more useful data

Also if the graph indicated deaths since day of first confirmed case per country it might well show something very different (which reflects the various measures/efforts implemented by different countries at different times)

I’m not a mathematician though so what do I know. I will say however that I honestly don’t think anything just reflecting ‘deaths’ is particularly helpful in these difficult times

Astute · Mar 19, 2020

Sky Blue Pete said:
Not at all it looks like Italy is getting better it’s not

Which is what my point is.

We use graphs to give us information. This graph gives false information. Deaths go up but the graph makes it look as though they are going down.

Ring Of Steel · Mar 19, 2020

Sky Blue Pete said:
Not at all it looks like Italy is getting better it’s not

Only if you don't understand it, but I think the graph topic has been done now.

THe conclusions are clear:

1. You thought the govt was right and herd immunity was a brilliant idea= graph is shit, I don't like it, I can't read it, I don't understand it wah wah
2. Everyone else= its just a graph, can be useful if you 'get' it, if not then whatever, its just a graph.

Ring Of Steel · Mar 19, 2020

Astute said:
Which is what my point is.

We use graphs to give us information. This graph gives false information. Deaths go up but the graph makes it look as though they are going down.

There is not one single piece of false information on the graph. Not one. And you cannot produce any. The only false information is that inside your bonce trying to make sense of it.

But whatever.

Astute · Mar 19, 2020

Ring Of Steel said:
I don't give a fuck about a downward curve, its only you having a hissy fit about not being able to understand it

Of course you don't care about something it fails badly on.

Yes it gives us information. But you have to study it to get the right information.

Then I have the graph expert telling me that it levelling off isn't a lowering of the curve. Yes it is. You can't remove deaths.

And yes I do know a little about mathematics. As I have stated on here several times before I wanted to be a mathematics teacher but couldn't afford Uni when younger. Then didn't want to have to get the last of the qualifications needed to take a pay cut to be a teacher.

Astute · Mar 19, 2020

Ring Of Steel said:
There is not one single piece of false information on the graph. Not one. And you cannot produce any. The only false information is that inside your bonce trying to make sense of it.

But whatever.

So why won't you answer one simple question?

What does a lowering of the curve look like?

usskyblue · Mar 19, 2020

FUCKGRAPHS FFS

Astute · Mar 19, 2020

Ring Of Steel said:
Only if you don't understand it, but I think the graph topic has been done now.

THe conclusions are clear:

1. You thought the govt was right and herd immunity was a brilliant idea= graph is shit, I don't like it, I can't read it, I don't understand it wah wah
2. Everyone else= its just a graph, can be useful if you 'get' it, if not then whatever, its just a graph.

Conclusion?

So how do you think we should have gine about it?

Total lockdown before anyone caught the virus?

Ring Of Steel · Mar 19, 2020

Astute said:
Of course you don't care about something it fails badly on.

Yes it gives us information. But you have to study it to get the right information.

Then I have the graph expert telling me that it levelling off isn't a lowering of the curve. Yes it is. You can't remove deaths.

And yes I do know a little about mathematics. As I have stated on here several times before I wanted to be a mathematics teacher but couldn't afford Uni when younger. Then didn't want to have to get the last of the qualifications needed to take a pay cut to be a teacher.

So because you don't like the way it looks, you think it fails. Because you have to "study it" does not mean it fails, it means that you don't get it. And your jibe at teachers just shows the kind of person you are.

Whoever it is putting the fucking graph up in the first place, don't stop just because of these herd immunity clowns.

Astute · Mar 19, 2020

usskyblue said:
FUCKGRAPHS FFS

Would be good if those who keep putting it up to show where we have gone wrong would state what we should have done. They seem to know more than the experts.

Ring Of Steel · Mar 19, 2020

Astute said:
Conclusion?

So how do you think we should have gine about it?

Total lockdown before anyone caught the virus?

You don't get to ask me questions, you were badly wrong and its clearly bothering you a lot, so go find another way to get it out of your system instead of making a tit of yourself on here.

Astute · Mar 19, 2020

Ring Of Steel said:
So because you don't like the way it looks, you think it fails. Because you have to "study it" does not mean it fails, it means that you don't get it. And your jibe at teachers just shows the kind of person you are.

Whoever it is putting the fucking graph up in the first place, don't stop just because of these herd immunity clowns.

Does that make you the graph clown?

So what should we have done?

How about stating this instead of keep pointing to a useless graph.

Ring Of Steel · Mar 19, 2020

Astute said:
Does that make you the graph clown?

So what should we have done?

How about stating this instead of keep pointing to a useless graph.

If you don't like it then simply ignore the thing as most others would do, leave it to the people who do actually understand it.

Astute · Mar 19, 2020

Ring Of Steel said:
You don't get to ask me questions, you were badly wrong and its clearly bothering you a lot, so go find another way to get it out of your system instead of making a tit of yourself on here.

Ah OK Mr keyboard warrior.

Why not explain where we have gine wrong?

Why not explain what a downwards curve is? After all that is the use if a graph.

But no. You hide behind a keyboard and try to be a bully. Well done.

Astute · Mar 19, 2020

Ring Of Steel said:
If you don't like it then simply ignore the thing as most others would do, leave it to the people who do actually understand it.

It is you that doesn't understand it as you can't explain it. And you prefer to insult than try to explain it.

Ring Of Steel · Mar 19, 2020

Astute said:
Ah OK Mr keyboard warrior.

Why not explain where we have gine wrong?

Why not explain what a downwards curve is? After all that is the use if a graph.

But no. You hide behind a keyboard and try to be a bully. Well done.

bully- no, thats more for people making snide comments about teachers such as your good self.

Now I bid you good day.

fellatio_Martinez · Mar 19, 2020

usskyblue said:
FUCKGRAPHS FFS

Woah there. Calm down horsey.

That's very graphic language.

cc84cov · Mar 19, 2020

clint van damme said:
I think you're right.
My wife knew co-workers and customers who had a bug around Christmas which she is now convinced was this virus due to the similarity of the symptoms they experienced. A few ended up in A and E with respistory issues.

A lot of people had this back then mate around Xmas mine was real bad I always have my chest under control but that one was like never before was a real struggle

PVA · Mar 19, 2020

Astute said:
Yes it gives us information. But you have to study it to get the right information..

LOL

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Mar 19, 2020

cc84cov said:
A lot of people had this back then mate around Xmas mine was real bad I always have my chest under control but that one was like never before was a real struggle

How does a Wonderbra help?

Johhny Blue · Mar 19, 2020

Can we start a separate graph thread?

Sky Blue Pete · Mar 19, 2020

Shouldn’t graphs be visual? I don’t really give a monkeys about the scale etc. It looks like Italy is improving on deaths and it’s not. That is all.

Gosh!

Nick · Mar 19, 2020

Can we go back to arguing about Brexit and the Council rather than graphs?

djr8369 · Mar 19, 2020

Astute said:
Why won't any of you that praise this graph say what a downwards curve would look like?

Astute said:
How about you explaining what a downward curve will look like on it?

Same old bullshit different day.

Tbf Astute I think it's only you who has used the term "downward curve" so nobody can explain it.

PVA · Mar 19, 2020

Now THIS is a graph we can all get behind

The coventrian · Mar 19, 2020

The gyms quiet. Only 3 of us here. Not even any fanny to look at.

SkyBlueCRJ · Mar 19, 2020

Ah yet another insightful contribution to a meaningful debate from the coventrian

djr8369 · Mar 19, 2020

CCFCSteve said:
This whole graph debate has gone on way too long. Can’t we agree that both sides of the argument have points.

For example I suppose the death rates are useful to know, to see the potential spike(s), however, I’d rather know the deaths per actual cases as I think that’s more useful data

Also if the graph indicated deaths since day of first confirmed case per country it might well show something very different (which reflects the various measures/efforts implemented by different countries at different times)

I’m not a mathematician though so what do I know. I will say however that I honestly don’t think anything just reflecting ‘deaths’ is particularly helpful in these difficult times

There's little use to showing either cases or deaths from first confirmed case because some countries only had a handful of cases which were kept isolated for a couple of weeks before getting out into the public. Other countries had the virus out and spreading before they had any confirmed cases. What's useful is to see how it's spreading once you have enough cases out in the community. This is why most of these graphs start at 10 or 100, it's looking at the spread of cases or increase in deaths once the virus is out in the community.

Some people are losing their shit over this because they've been taught (correctly) to compare like for like data and any deviation from this feels blasphemous. It's fine though as long as the graph is labelled so you know what you are looking at.

mark82 · Mar 19, 2020

Astute said:
Exactly. But look at the false graph.

It's not false, it's just logarithmic. There are linear graphs out there too.

fernandopartridge · Mar 19, 2020

OffenhamSkyBlue said:
Over 400 Covid-19 deaths in Italy in just one day yesterday. They don't have it beat by ANY measure!

Indeed, although the rate of deaths may increase for a time whilst the rate of infections decrease for a time.

SkyBlueDom26 · Mar 19, 2020

I was ill as fuck before Christmas off work for a week with the flu, i had every symptom of the Corona virus so im sure it was going round before then

The coventrian · Mar 19, 2020

SkyBlueCRJ said:
Ah yet another insightful contribution to a meaningful debate from the coventrian

Well the alternative is to be a bed wetter.

Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (21 Viewers)

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