Coleman has a dig at SISU during Wales conference! (1 Viewer)

[WillieStanley]

What?

So you seriously believe that Tactics and Luck dont play a part???

Tactics = Make or break football matches, you live and die by your tactics.

Luck = No such thing. You make your own luck. Ever heard the quote "The more I practice, the luckier I get"?

 

---

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I haven't got a clue? Remind me what fans were saying the other week. We played well, we were unlucky. Vital times this season in vital games, Thorns tactics or lack off have cost us points.

If you opened your eyes to the bigger picture you would see that.

Jesus, too many people nowadays thinks they buy the best players and get instant success..

Its what you do in training, what you see, what you think will bring the best out of players, tactics, formation and set pieces that matters.

Last week's game was lost through a mistake by Clarke who'd just come on to the pitch after a lengthy spell out trying to come back from injury. He came on for McPake, who himself has only just returned to some kind of match fitness-he's also a right back who was stuck at left back because our only recognised left back, Hussey, wasn't available. Given that that was all Thorn had available to him, and McPake went off with another knock, how is *any* of that Thorn's fault? Because he can't get the players fit enough you say? Our fitness coach went to Liverpool in the summer and hasn't been replaced-Thorn's fault too I guess.
Using your logic, a team of Sunday league players would be expected to hold their own at this level 'if they had the right tactics'-they'd have no bloody chance because they simply wouldn't be good enough. The current group's work rate or effort can't be faulted here, but their ability is lacking-people slate Thorn for spending what money we did have on McDonald, but was he first choice? Almost certainly not (recall Le Fondre being the main target and went to Reading instead). Not for a minute am I saying he is flawless, but the guy is working with such a whopping great handicap, carrying out two jobs at once, and he is still battered by some sections of the support. This squad has lost a dozen players and replaced it with (until just now) 2 keepers and a solitary outfield player (plus Gardner for 3 weeks); the result of that is a team mainly full of academy graduates and scraps of last season's side. Nobody else in the division comes close to that kind of damage to their squads for goodness' sake.../rant

 

[Nick]

Like you say, the game was lost because of a mistake, not because we got hammered so we were more than holding our own! A sunday league team would be 10 or 11 down by then

 

[CUS Wyken]

Last week's game was lost through a mistake by Clarke who'd just come on to the pitch after a lengthy spell out trying to come back from injury. He came on for McPake, who himself has only just returned to some kind of match fitness-he's also a right back who was stuck at left back because our only recognised left back, Hussey, wasn't available. Given that that was all Thorn had available to him, and McPake went off with another knock, how is *any* of that Thorn's fault? Because he can't get the players fit enough you say? Our fitness coach went to Liverpool in the summer and hasn't been replaced-Thorn's fault too I guess.
Using your logic, a team of Sunday league players would be expected to hold their own at this level 'if they had the right tactics'-they'd have no bloody chance because they simply wouldn't be good enough. The current group's work rate or effort can't be faulted here, but their ability is lacking-people slate Thorn for spending what money we did have on McDonald, but was he first choice? Almost certainly not (recall Le Fondre being the main target and went to Reading instead). Not for a minute am I saying he is flawless, but the guy is working with such a whopping great handicap, carrying out two jobs at once, and he is still battered by some sections of the support. This squad has lost a dozen players and replaced it with (until just now) 2 keepers and a solitary outfield player (plus Gardner for 3 weeks); the result of that is a team mainly full of academy graduates and scraps of last season's side. Nobody else in the division comes close to that kind of damage to their squads for goodness' sake.../rant

The situation is painful i agree but like i said on the other thread, half of these players leftover are what Thorn recommended as scout.

Losing the players don't help our cause but in games were not losing by much are we? I want to start seeing us go at teams and try and win. Were not attackign teams and creating enough chances. All this neat sidewards passing is ineffective. Thorn needs to address this

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The situation is painful i agree but like i said on the other thread, half of these players leftover are what Thorn recommended as scout.

Losing the players don't help our cause but in games were not losing by much are we? I want to start seeing us go at teams and try and win. Were not attackign teams and creating enough chances. All this neat sidewards passing is ineffective. Thorn needs to address this

Thorn will also have recommended the likes of Juke, Gunnar, Keogh, Clingan and co. We've lost a dozen games by one goal, and that annoys the hell out of me-but if we went all guns blazing and lumped it forward to Platt (the only target man left), and were carved open, what would your response be then? You can't legislate for things like 2 freak goals against West Ham, Clingan's terrible backpass at Brighton, Gardner's sitter against Peterborough, and countless other individual mistakes. Despite all the sales and missing players, the team will be fine with a King-esque natural scorer or two to take chances as the defence is essentially solid

 

[Nick]

When Thorn came in he said he wants to go for it, he would rather win 4-3. Sideways and conservative is pointless!

 

[CUS Wyken]

Thorn will also have recommended the likes of Juke, Gunnar, Keogh, Clingan and co. We've lost a dozen games by one goal, and that annoys the hell out of me-but if we went all guns blazing and lumped it forward to Platt (the only target man left), and were carved open, what would your response be then? You can't legislate for things like 2 freak goals against West Ham, Clingan's terrible backpass at Brighton, Gardner's sitter against Peterborough, and countless other individual mistakes. Despite all the sales and missing players, the team will be fine with a King-esque natural scorer or two to take chances as the defence is essentially solid

I agree and thats why i don't believe this team of players are a team that should be 7 points away from safety but we are.

 

[Bloodnut1964]

I don't agree, we haven't really been spanked this season bar Ipswich. It has always been late goals, individual mistakes so it does show the players have it in them.

We seem to have spells in games where we dominate, then it is as if other managers make changes and then it counteracts it and Thorn doesn't change anything. I don't expect us to be winning the league with our squad, but I think we shouldn't be where we are with some of our performances!

If we were getting spanked every week I would say the players aren't good enough.

The league doesn't lie, we are where we are because we are not good enough, not because of poor tactics, we keep losing and have not spanked anyone (Fact) we are a poor team like it or not.
That is not Thorns fault it is the fault of SISU for selling all our players and not making funds available to buy new ones, also a fact.
I just don't understand the mentality of the blame Thorn at all costs brigade.
If Thorn had funds available and weren't getting players sold from underneath him left, right and centre and was able to build a team that's not full of kids and second rate players, and then he failed I could understand it, but as things stand, I think, and this is just my opinion, anyone who thinks Thorn is to blame for the situation we are in is deluded.

 

[CUS Wyken]

The league doesn't lie, we are where we are because we are not good enough, not because of poor tactics, we keep losing and have not spanked anyone (Fact) we are a poor team like it or not.
That is not Thorns fault it is the fault of SISU for selling all our players and not making funds available to buy new ones, also a fact.
I just don't understand the mentality of the blame Thorn at all costs brigade.
If Thorn had funds available and weren't getting players sold from underneath him left, right and centre and was able to build a team that's not full of kids and second rate players, and then he failed I could understand it, but as things stand, I think, and this is just my opinion, anyone who thinks Thorn is to blame for the situation we are in is deluded.

Half the players left are what he recommended as a scout... Baker, Bell, Hussey, Wood and McDonald. Puts it in prespective.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I agree and thats why i don't believe this team of players are a team that should be 7 points away from safety but we are.

We would almost certainly be comfortably clear of the bottom 3 were it not for the countless individual errors...but AT is not 100% accountable for things like Juke skying a penalty against Reading over the bar.

Take a look here: http://www.footballwebpages.co.uk/league/championship?sort=6. Some interesting statistics in there, and a league table predicting us to go down by a point-with not urealistic predictions.

 

[Bloodnut1964]

Last week's game was lost through a mistake by Clarke who'd just come on to the pitch after a lengthy spell out trying to come back from injury. He came on for McPake, who himself has only just returned to some kind of match fitness-he's also a right back who was stuck at left back because our only recognised left back, Hussey, wasn't available. Given that that was all Thorn had available to him, and McPake went off with another knock, how is *any* of that Thorn's fault? Because he can't get the players fit enough you say? Our fitness coach went to Liverpool in the summer and hasn't been replaced-Thorn's fault too I guess.
Using your logic, a team of Sunday league players would be expected to hold their own at this level 'if they had the right tactics'-they'd have no bloody chance because they simply wouldn't be good enough. The current group's work rate or effort can't be faulted here, but their ability is lacking-people slate Thorn for spending what money we did have on McDonald, but was he first choice? Almost certainly not (recall Le Fondre being the main target and went to Reading instead). Not for a minute am I saying he is flawless, but the guy is working with such a whopping great handicap, carrying out two jobs at once, and he is still battered by some sections of the support. This squad has lost a dozen players and replaced it with (until just now) 2 keepers and a solitary outfield player (plus Gardner for 3 weeks); the result of that is a team mainly full of academy graduates and scraps of last season's side. Nobody else in the division comes close to that kind of damage to their squads for goodness' sake.../rant

Well said all of the above, I applaud you as it is my thoughts exactly, when will people on here get real.

 

[keef]

Like you say, the game was lost because of a mistake, not because we got hammered so we were more than holding our own! A sunday league team would be 10 or 11 down by then

A threadbare squad with injuries and the talent sold off and we arent getting hammered week in week out.....Sounds like Thorns getting the best out of an inexperienced team that should be low on morale.

I dont think you can judge Thorn until he's had a chance to build something rather than have players sold from underneath him. This season is a shocker but the fault lies with SISU.
Something that i find telling is that we are known to be financially screwed yet no one is looking to take advantage and buy whats left in the shop window.....says to me that the rest of the league know our young players dont have what it takes to make it at this level right now. If the kids were good enough to shine they would be snapped up on the cheap.

 

[Bloodnut1964]

Half the players left are what he recommended as a scout... Baker, Bell, Hussey, Wood and McDonald. Puts it in prespective.

yes and what is playing around them? or hadn't you noticed the kids on the pitch, they can't do it on their own, get a grip!!

 

[CUS Wyken]

We would almost certainly be comfortably clear of the bottom 3 were it not for the countless individual errors...but AT is not 100% accountable for things like Juke skying a penalty against Reading over the bar.

Take a look here: http://www.footballwebpages.co.uk/league/championship?sort=6. Some interesting statistics in there, and a league table predicting us to go down by a point-with not urealistic predictions.

Mate, there's 18 games left and that table reckons will only score another 12 goals all season and conceding over 20. How they work out and we finish on 45 points i do not know.

 

[CUS Wyken]

yes and what is playing around them or hadn't you noticed the kids on the pitch, they can't do it on their on their own, get a grip!!

Baker been awful, Bell been awful. Two important positons where the players have been dreadful.

The kids have showed the older players how to do it.

The average age of the team saturday was 26 and only 2 players under 21. Rubbish excuse.

 

[Bloodnut1964]

Baker been awful, Bell been awful. Two important positons where the players have been dreadful.

The kids have showed the older players how to do it.

The average age of the team saturday was 26 and only 2 players under 21. Rubbish excuse.

I remember Gary Mcallister being dreadful when he first came to City, reason why is co's he never had the players around him that were at his level, I'm not saying that is the case but it could be or it could be that they are just not good enough, which as like you say Baker been awful and Bell been awful, how is that Thorns fault when they are all he has got to pick from?
Yes he might of brought them to the club originally but he also got Westwood, Gunnarson, King, Dann, Fox, Turner, Juke etc etc, now tell me it's Thorns fault they have been sold underneath him?
Also how many players in other teams do you know that have been brought into a club by scouts and not always played well?
Your argument to get Thorn out holds no water, you should be taking your obvious frustration out on SISU and not Thorn. Just my opinion of course.

 

[Nick]

I am pretty sure Boothroyd got King and that Turner came through the ranks...

I am not doubting Thorn as a scout, I am as a manager though!

 

[CUS Wyken]

I remember Gary Mcallister being dreadful when he first came to City, reason why is co's he never had the players around him that were at his level, I'm not saying that is the case but it could be or it could be that they are just not good enough, which as like you say Baker been awful and Bell been awful, how is that Thorns fault when they are all he has got to pick from?
Yes he might of brought them to the club originally but he also got Westwood, Gunnarson, King, Dann, Fox, Turner, Juke etc etc, now tell me it's Thorns fault they have been sold underneath him?
Also how many players in other teams do you know that have been brought into a club by scouts and not always played well?
Your argument to get Thorn out holds no water, you should be taking your obvious frustration out on SISU and not Thorn. Just my opinion of course.

I hate SISU and thats why i protested at the FA Cup game mate. I was down SISU headquarters when we played Millwall.. I've let SISU know my frustrations.

As ive said i feel sorry for Thorns prediciment but he's just not good enough. Shame but thats how it is. Like you said, its all about Opinons and thios board would be boring if we all agreed

 

[Bloodnut1964]

I am pretty sure Boothroyd got King and that Turner came through the ranks...

Yes, I think you're right, sick of people trying to blame Thorn for everything, I take it even if Thorn does recommend a player thou, if the manager don't like him he won't sign him?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I remember Gary Mcallister being dreadful when he first came to City, reason why is co's he never had the players around him that were at his level, I'm not saying that is the case but it could be or it could be that they are just not good enough, which as like you say Baker been awful and Bell been awful, how is that Thorns fault when they are all he has got to pick from?
Yes he might of brought them to the club originally but he also got Westwood, Gunnarson, King, Dann, Fox, Turner, Juke etc etc, now tell me it's Thorns fault they have been sold underneath him?
Also how many players in other teams do you know that have been brought into a club by scouts and not always played well?
Your argument to get Thorn out holds no water, you should be taking your obvious frustration out on SISU and not Thorn. Just my opinion of course.

People also forget that transfers basically *never* have a 100% success rate pretty much the world over. Djemba-Djemba, Kleberson, Taibi, Obertan at Utd, Woodgate at RM, Sidwell at Chelsea, and I could go on and on (but won't ). We've got our fair share of transfer mistakes, but look generally at where our players have ended up and it's at a higher level or up the top end of the Champs-that shows that we're identifying the right players, developing the right players-but not keeping them because the hedge fund wants to keep its investors happy. These guys allowed Westwood and King to leave for bugger all-such gross incompetence is difficult to ignore.

 

[Bloodnut1964]

I hate SISU and thats why i protested at the FA Cup game mate. I was down SISU headquarters when we played Millwall.. I've let SISU know my frustrations.

As ive said i feel sorry for Thorns prediciment but he's just not good enough. Shame but thats how it is. Like you said, its all about Opinons and thios board would be boring if we all agreed

That I do agree with, I really just don't understand why you're on Thorns back when it is clear the side is not good enough, as said in an earlier post by your reckoning a sunday league side with the right tactics would win, Tactics aren't the problem, SISU are the problem for disbanding our team bit by bit.
Do you think we would be in the same position with Westwood in goal, dann, fox, Keough, Turner at the back, Gunnarson, Clingan, Deegan, Macca in the midfield diamond and King and Juke up front? I would say the team I just mentioned would be a damn good team, wouldn't you?
But the fact is we haven't got most of them players because SISU has sold them or they left on free transfers because of SISU, so we are left with the likes of Bell, Baker, Cranie, McPake, O'Donovan and a bunch of kids to fit round what decent bits we have got.
Take a look at the past ten seasons, we have not been good, so how when we get rid of all that talent I have mentioned do you expect Thorn to do any better?

 

[thorn in my side]

Ha ha!!

More bad press for SISU......

He said:

"Yes I admit I made mistakes at Coventry, but not half as many mistakes as the people that own the club!"

Very unprofessional. Suggest he focuses on the job in hand rather than looking to make excuses for previous failings.

 

[sw88]

That I do agree with, I really just don't understand why you're on Thorns back when it is clear the side is not good enough, as said in an earlier post by your reckoning a sunday league side with the right tactics would win, Tactics aren't the problem, SISU are the problem for disbanding our team bit by bit.
Do you think we would be in the same position with Westwood in goal, dann, fox, Keough, Turner at the back, Gunnarson, Clingan, Deegan, Macca in the midfield diamond and King and Juke up front? I would say the team I just mentioned would be a damn good team, wouldn't you?
But the fact is we haven't got most of them players because SISU has sold them or they left on free transfers because of SISU, so we are left with the likes of Bell, Baker, Cranie, McPake, O'Donovan and a bunch of kids to fit round what decent bits we have got.
Take a look at the past ten seasons, we have not been good, so how when we get rid of all that talent I have mentioned do you expect Thorn to do any better?

Wow, what a team we could have had

 

[sky blue zam]

What was the reaction to Coleman having a go at sisu

 

[dadgad]

TOP post there MMM, the quality of your well balanced argument contrasts sharply with the anti Thorn idiocy which utterly fail to address the realities of the situation.
When the best players from last year werent replaced it was obvious we were going to get relegated. Coleman has just spoken out about how mistaken Sisu were. Thorn was chosen by Sisu because he's the cheapest option.....ie not chosen for his managerial experience.....hardly his fault. All in all he's done as well as he could and until Sisu go he'll probably remain the manager who continues to do a thoroughly professional job despite the fact that his bosses couldnt organise a piss up in a brewery. Throughout the game he earns respect an odd concept in today's world let alone in the depressing goldfish bowl that's modern football.
Meanwhile people like Wyken, FFS, think that if we went 442 and had the rub of the green we'd be safe.
The boy's a genie arse.

 

[CUS Wyken]

Meanwhile people like Wyken, FFS, think that if we went 442 and had the rub of the green we'd be safe.
The boy's a genie arse.

Where did I say anything about 4-4-2?? Making things up?

West ham goals at home flukes, the pair of them. Luck plays it game.

You say well balanced views but fact of the argument is. When asked what good has Thorn done to this team this season no-one can answer. His job is to manage the team and get the best out of them. Now the diamond isn't working... Everyone can see that. So why don't he change it??? If you honestly think the diamond works with this crop of players then seriously I'm not the deluded one, it's you.

 

[CUS Wyken]

And one final point, if I was in charge, last 20 games I'll be going to try and win games espeiclly in our situation rather than not losing games. Thorn would rather lose 1-0 and say how tight a game it's been rather then actually going for it and making daring runs forward. Because draws are not any good to us, it's wins.

 

[Bloodnut1964]

Where did I say anything about 4-4-2?? Making things up?

West ham goals at home flukes, the pair of them. Luck plays it game.

You say well balanced views but fact of the argument is. When asked what good has Thorn done to this team this season no-one can answer. His job is to manage the team and get the best out of them. Now the diamond isn't working... Everyone can see that. So why don't he change it??? If you honestly think the diamond works with this crop of players then seriously I'm not the deluded one, it's you.

Personally I don't think it matters what formation we played, if the players aren't good enough were not going to win. Let's hope the 2 new players we have signed can make an impact, I do believe we need more still, a decent midfielder would be good.

 

[CUS Wyken]

Personally I don't think it matters what formation we played, if the players aren't good enough were not going to win. Let's hope the 2 new players we have signed can make an impact, I do believe we need more still, a decent midfielder would be good.

I feel We need pace and width mate. For some reason we've not had any decent wingers for years. Creative midfielder too but we have no chance.

 

[dadgad]

I feel We need pace and width mate. For some reason we've not had any decent wingers for years. Creative midfielder too but we have no chance.

Haha, so 'Let's blame Thorn' for that, and chuck in global warming too.

 

[CUS Wyken]

Haha, so 'Let's blame Thorn' for that, and chuck in global warming too.

Thorn has been at the club for a few years now as scout and Manager. How many decent wingers have we had during that time?

It’s obvious he don’t like using wingers and never has because otherwise he would have said.

 

[Nick]

If the players were not good enough we would be getting thraped every week surely?

 

[KersleyDigs]

In his time as scout Thorn recommended SISU buy the following young talent:

Andrew Driver
Jack Cork
Johan Gudmundsson
Jordan Henderson
Zavon Hines
Andy Carroll
Nicky Maynard

.....did they buy them? Did they fuck!

 

[KersleyDigs]

Thorn wanted:

-----------------------Westwood-------------------------
Keogh----------Dann------------Turner------------Fox
Driver-------Henderson--------Cork-----Gudmundsson
----------------Carroll--------Maynard/Best-------------

SISU gave us:

-------------------Shitbag--------------------
Shitbag------Keogh------Shitbag------Shitbag
Shitbag------Shitbag-----Shitbag------Shitbag
--------------Shitbag------Shitbag--------------

 

[CUS Wyken]

In his time as scout Thorn recommended SISU buy the following young talent:

Andrew Driver
Jack Cork
Johan Gudmundsson
Jordan Henderson
Zavon Hines
Andy Carroll
Nicky Maynard

.....did they buy them? Did they fuck!

SISU are mugs and i hate them for not investing more but Every club could say the same about players they could have got?

Let’s look at the current crop and many are what Thorn recommended and bought in.

For every good player he spotted, he spotted some tripe aswell.

Bell League 1 standard
Baker League 1 standard
McDonald League 1 standard
Wood League 1 standard and Roy O’D (Sunday League standard)

You get league 1 players you end up playing league 1 football.