Grendel
Well-Known Member
Yes if this was sisu imagine the CET story - "cash strapped Mayfair hedge fund asking its own fans to pay for signings" - under a headline Would you Gamble your money?" Oh and a picture of Tim with a begging bowl.
Club aims to raise £35m from bond (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter SkyBlue_Bear83
- Start date
Yes if this was sisu imagine the CET story - "cash strapped Mayfair hedge fund asking its own fans to pay for signings" - under a headline Would you Gamble your money?" Oh and a picture of Tim with a begging bowl.
And some fans think that wasps would want to buy and fund our football club......
They haven't got a pot to.....
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Tis true and the way all hedge funds operate...........with someone else's money !
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Remember all the "don't sell to SISU as they will borrow against it" scare stories? I wonder if those same posters will feel a little uncomfortable this morning?
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Is that one of the comments, Nick?
Nick
Administrator
Probably ringing Wonga for a loan for 2k.
Nick
Administrator
Sure is!
shy_tall_knight
Well-Known Member
Its all about perception the WASPS PR machine has been excellent. SISU have given us Joy who only recently agreed to give interviews, Igne, Ken Diddleydoo, Brody a whole catalogue of jokers. There may be financial chaos behinds the scene but doesn't seem to effect the on field product. 7 and a bit years of SISU and we are a shambles.
shy_tall_knight
Well-Known Member
My fear was that if they had the freehold they would sell it.
Nick
Administrator
But at the end of the day if they are both dodgy as fuck behind the scenes does it make it ok if they are bullshitting to the press every 5 minutes?
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
It has... but am always amazed how easy it appears to be to get unquestioning acceptance of PR maneuvres from some (not all).
In this instance 6.5%(?) doesn't seem bad in the current climate but... it's close to where I start thinking if something's too good to be true...
duffer
Well-Known Member
These are commercial leases, not residential ones. Different rules apply - you can't sell a commercial lease to another third party in the way that you sell a flat. Typically, if the company holding the lease becomes insolvent, the lease reverts to the freeholder.
In other words, if you're a company in difficulties, then you can't sell the lease to release capital (or to escape from the liability) in the same way as if you are a householder. This is key Noggin - as such the lease doesn't hold much value as security.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
I'm afraid to him and many others it does. It's almost as if the PR excuses them from any scrutiny.
Nick
Administrator
Its like two blokes, one promises he is going to marry her, have kids, treat her like a princess, spoil her, flowers every day and another that says "im just going to get my end away then go". She falls for the first one but he gets his end away and goes anyway.
duffer
Well-Known Member
In fairness, I can see that you've accepted that you don't think it's a great investment. However Wasps are committed to paying 6.5% interest a year on the bonds - £2.3m every year if the whole offering is taken, just to service the debt. Given they haven't turned a profit yet and have relied entirely on one person to keep going, I think that's a lot of extra money to find each season.
Again, to me, this highlights how much of a risk Wasps are as a company - and at the moment the council still hold £14m of debt against them.
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
shy_tall_knight
Well-Known Member
PR doesn't excuse scrutiny but WASPS have done it well compared to us, its about winning hearts and minds not about being morally right or wrong. WASPS are seen as being well run with a good on pitch product matched by a clear financial policy. Cov are seen as a shambles. Look no further than the in stadium merchandising - a table with virtually no products for sale.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Part of this loan is being used to pay the interest!
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
That's fair enough for the man on the street but journalists should be digging deeper and not just printing what they are told to print by Wasps. Lets give them the benefit of the doubt, this news raises a lot of questions to be asked of CCC, Higgs and Wasps, lets see if over the coming days those questions do get asked.
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
But the latter is what should be scrutinised.
Sure, we don't do PR well... but when the clock was ticking, we were debt free, and being run with good buisiness sense, our owners were still the same dubious chancers they are now.
In a way I'd rather have the shambles of our club, as at least it's obvious it's a shambles! At least then I hand my cash over secure that I'm a mentalist prepared to lose it, I'm not being taken in by the smoke and mirrors...
duffer
Well-Known Member
And of course why the rate is high.
I'll stick with my Cov Building Society ISA
6.5% with no security against a company who have very nearly gone to the wall once, and are currently reliant on the whim of an individual owner to survive, isn't high enough for me.
I note the original page is down at the moment - http://www.wasps.co.uk/the-club/bonds - insert own conspiracy theory here, but if I was from the council I wouldn't have been overly happy with the initial claim on that page that the bond was secured against the Ricoh Arena. That's not really true.
Edit: They've moved the page now - http://www.wasps.co.uk/bonds/secured-bonds - not sure if the wording has changed, it still implies the Ricoh Arena is being used as security to me though. A bit naughty, imho, but the detail is in the small print elsewhere no doubt.
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Nick
Administrator
I thought it was all about morals and strong spines etc? How has it changed?
Nick
Administrator
Yet people will fall for it.
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
Nor me. But then it's the balance that make it stupidly high, and people *really* start asking questions.
What happens if they don't raise the cash, anyway?
lordsummerisle
Well-Known Member
To be fair it has been an extremely long honeymoon period with Wasps.
He must be exhausted.
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
duffer
Well-Known Member
They plod on, I guess. Just with some serious questions about how good their business model really is. It raises the sort of questions the council should've asked before getting into bed with them, perhaps.
skybluejelly
Well-Known Member
What is worrying is people who suddenly have access to there pension pots see headline rates of 6.5% which is more than double high street rates .. And put there money in not realising they could loose it all .. They are not covered like high street banks .. Does anyone know of any upcoming stadium concerts .. As they make a big thing about the venue being used
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Nick
Administrator
Especially when you have the press making out it may be a good deal etc etc.
shy_tall_knight
Well-Known Member
I am talking about the public perception, their PR aligned with lack of detailed / critical investigation by the press - unfortunately Les Reid & the Coventry Observer are an irrelevance to most, our own shambles, neither side of the political divide in CCC challenging the ACL sale, SISU's public perception - allows this to be a good news progressive story and unbfortunately disgruntled Coventry fans are now also becoming an irrelevance.
Whats also clear to to me but not to many others in Cov that I talk to WASPS aren't buying CCFC, so don't justify your support for the Ricoh sale based on the fact that we will all be one club soon aint going to happen pot & pi$$ come to mind.
