Championship thread 25/26! (73 Viewers)

[Ccfcisparks]

Im interested how this differs from how their conduct is worse than other clubs who create equity shares?

Explain please

If you dont think its different, how come you keep sharing your hate about Steve Gibson, but are deepthroating Wrexham every chance you get

 

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[shmmeee]

In a weird way I have less of an issue with Wrexham who have genuinely grown their commercial appeal than random billionaire throws money type clubs. It’s unconventional but is at least vaguely related to the exposure and fan base of the club. Unlike a Blackburn or Bournemouth where the cash is propping the club up above their natural level imo.

 

[Grendel]

If you dont think its different, how come you keep sharing your hate about Steve Gibson, but are deepthroating Wrexham every chance you get

I’ve explained my issue with Gibson

 

[skybluecam]

Wrexham who have genuinely grown their commercial appeal

how is being bought by two Hollywood celebs who pimp you out for a Disney documentary genuine lmao

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Im interested how this differs from how their conduct is worse than other clubs who create equity shares?

Explain please

Each time they enter a new division they outspend nearly the entire division and pay massively over the odds to hoover up players. It's anti competitive and exacerbates the problems caused by disproportionate transfer fees and wages.

As a smaller point, it cheats clubs who don't have this advantage of the right to advance up the pyramid.

 

[Jamesimus]

whst have Wrexham done wrong that Middlesbrough didn’t?

Turned annoying Americans onto Championship football

 

[LarryGrayson]

Turned annoying Americans onto Championship football

best argument so far

 

[Ccfcisparks]

best argument so far

SPELLING?!

 

[Mild-Mannered Janitor]

I am not sure that the conversion of debt to equity actually helps conform to FFP or PSR, they are assessed on annual trading losses, I think clubs can lose £39m over 3 years but can offset certain costs Like infrastructure ground improvements, they cannot offset interest on debt.
the only way a debt conversion to equity would help is if a club like boro and Gibson were charging interest on the loans which he wasn’t. I think he has accumulated over 400m of interest free loans to the club, probably like wrexham, they are keeping within that 13m per annum on average of losses to not breach. He will have converted to give better balance sheet strength by not having as much as debt and a better equity liquidity ratio

cannot underestimate how much the extra revenue wrexham are pulling in via united sponsorship or outside football tv revenue via their tv series, they could also be taking a massive punt and lose heavily this year as a gamble, it’s 39m over 3 years but could lose that in one year if they make profit or break even the next two seasons. They could also be doing a Chelsea so Sheaf at 6m on a 4 year deal would only cost 1.5m per annum, the Doyle deal had a buy back clause at the same value so not sure they would have to amortise his value through the books. only time will tell with them but boro will always be fine unless Gibson stops wanting to fund the losses like Mel morris did at Derby

 

[fernandopartridge]

Tbf to G it is a fact that Gibson has bankrolled Middlesbrough for the last 40 years. Their spending in the PL was pretty massive in the 90s, Juninho, Emerson, Ravanelli, Barmby etc

 

[covmark]

Each time they enter a new division they outspend nearly the entire division and pay massively over the odds to hoover up players. It's anti competitive and exacerbates the problems caused by disproportionate transfer fees and wages.

As a smaller point, it cheats clubs who don't have this advantage of the right to advance up the pyramid.

It's also being pushed as some sort of underdog story, which is utter bollocks.

 

[shmmeee]

how is being bought by two Hollywood celebs who pimp you out for a Disney documentary genuine lmao

People like Hollywood and it attracts customers. Roflcopter.

 

[skybluecam]

People like Hollywood and it attracts customers. Roflcopter.

Nothing to do with Wrexham though is it

 

[Ccfcisparks]

Nothing to do with Wrexham though is it

Just when I thought he couldnt get anymore cringe hes a 40 year old man saying Roflcopter!

 

[clint van damme]

The founding of the Premier League is unrelated to the rules concerning club ownership and football finance. On the contrary, in a different timeline we have an abundance of TV money making its way through the pyramid with clubs that are still in the hands of their supporters. When we welcomed in Roman Abramovich that's when it really started to run away.

I see Wrexham coming up into this league and dropping £50 million and it reminds me of what the game in this country has turned into. Hero worship of piss taking clubs while we look at Sheffield Wednesday's mess (Lesta's too now) and ask 'how did this happen?'.

If you want to talk about when it all started to go wrong you could probably look at when home teams started keeping all their gate receipts.

But I didn't see anyone demanding an equal split of the Preston gate money with the away team.

Every major move since then has been designed to make the rich richer, and we played our part.

I actually get what you're saying about your Man city mate, I've heard it myself.
But part of their problem is they only had a certain stick to beat united with, and they became that stick.

 

[Skybluekyle]

It's also being pushed as some sort of underdog story, which is utter bollocks.

I think this is probably the root of my slight antipathy towards Wrexham. To make an exception of them for spending big would be ignoring precedent, can't say I dislike the owners particularly, Wrexham bandwaggoners will be bundled together with the others who partake in that particular distasteful practice and I hear they have brought the community along with them. There are some positives, but Wrexham are probably a net-negative overall for football, and Sky Sports painting it as some sort of fairy tale is nauseating

 

[Mild-Mannered Janitor]

Tbf to G it is a fact that Gibson has bankrolled Middlesbrough for the last 40 years. Their spending in the PL was pretty massive in the 90s, Juninho, Emerson, Ravanelli, Barmby etc

But it’s his money, he keeps funding it but doesn’t breach FFP, two different things, it allows them to spend at the upper end of the losses allowed compared to an owner like Doug who may want break even annually And therefore an advantage but no rules broken, just fortunate fans

 

[clint van damme]

Yup, now retired and lives around here. He doesn’t ‘long for the second division’, he does feel the club has moved too far away from the one he grew up supporting.

I hope we move that far away from the club I grew up supporting that we win a champions league

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I hope we move that far away from the club I grew up supporting that we win a champions league

To each his own, his opinion's as valid as anyone else's and he's seen pretty much everything in his time supporting the club.

If we got bought out by the Saudis and were used for sportswashing I wouldn't give a fuck about sporting success, I'd stop following the club.

 

[LarryGrayson]

I think this is probably the root of my slight antipathy towards Wrexham. To make an exception of them for spending big would be ignoring precedent, can't say I dislike the owners particularly, Wrexham bandwaggoners will be bundled together with the others who partake in that particular distasteful practice and I hear they have brought the community along with them. There are some positives, but Wrexham are probably a net-negative overall for football, and Sky Sports painting it as some sort of fairy tale is nauseating

its a fairy tale for the fans who went thro shit owners and saw there team go out the league

 

[clint van damme]

To each his own, his opinion's as valid as anyone else's and he's seen pretty much everything in his time supporting the club.

If we got bought out by the Saudis and were used for sportswashing I wouldn't give a fuck about sporting success, I'd stop following the club.

You are entitled to your opinion, and that's fair enough.
But Ive said this many times before, if we want to remove malign foreign influences from our society, (and that constitutes a minefield in itself), then great, I'm all for it.

But to use the Saudis that you've mentioned as an example, while they're getting the red carpet treatment at number 10, and afternoon tea with the monarchy, and Trump is excusing them murdeting Khashoggi by calling hima wrong un then why should a football team be the ones to try and set moral standards?

 

[Shannerz]

I hope we move that far away from the club I grew up supporting that we win a champions league

But that's the thing, isn't it.

Winning the Champion's League would be great, but would it be worth becoming a sports-washing tool for an illiberal regime to achieve it? Imo, no. That may put me in the minority, but it's still a no from me.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

You are entitled to your opinion, and that's fair enough.
But Ive said this many times before, if we want to remove malign foreign influences from our society, (and that constitutes a minefield in itself), then great, I'm all for it.

But to use the Saudis that you've mentioned as an example, while they're getting the red carpet treatment at number 10, and afternoon tea with the monarchy, and Trump is excusing them murdeting Khashoggi by calling hima wrong un then why should a football team be the ones to try and set moral standards?

As I've said before to you on that topic, I want rid of their influence across society and our government, not just football.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

its a fairy tale for the fans who went thro shit owners and saw there team go out the league

Brilliant for them to then stomp on the fairy tales of clubs who've also put up with shite for ages then.

 

[Jamesimus]

I want rid of their influence across society and our government, not just football.

I’ve missed the rest of the replies, but I’m going to assume it’s in reference to Americans and I’m 100% in agreement with it if so.

 

[covmark]

its a fairy tale for the fans who went thro shit owners and saw there team go out the league

And that's fine. However trying to paint them as plucky little Wrexham who have battled their way from non league to within sight of the Premier league, sticks in the throat a bit. I mean they were paying L1 money in the conference.

 

[Shannerz]

I don't begrudge the long-term Wrexham fans at all; just the same as I don't begrudge the Manchester City fans who saw their club pip Manchester United to a league title with two injury time goals.

That's not the point, though; I'm still not rooting for their clubs generally.

 

[clint van damme]

But that's the thing, isn't it.

Winning the Champion's League would be great, but would it be worth becoming a sports-washing tool for an illiberal regime to achieve it? Imo, no. That may put me in the minority, but it's still a no from me.

While illiberal regimes are being allowed to use football for sports washing then I'd have no obje tion to it.

If we could stop it tomorrow then I'd do it, but we all know that's not going to happen.

And what are the parameters for acceptable ownership?

 

[Skybluekyle]

its a fairy tale for the fans who went thro shit owners and saw there team go out the league

A historic injustice doesn't justify the actions of a club, romanticised by Sky Sports, to the detriment of others and the sport, though?

 

[Skybluekyle]

But, to keep honest to my original point, it's only the media narrative I am in some sense "attacking". Wrexham is just a symptom of a wider systemic disease, and making an exception out of them would be harsh in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

But, to keep honest to my original point, it's only the media narrative I am in some sense "attacking". Wrexham is just a symptom of a wider systemic disease, and making an exception out of them would be harsh in the grand scheme of things.

Nobody is making an exception of them FFS.

 

[Shannerz]

And what are the parameters for acceptable ownership?

I don't know.

For me personally? Start with nation states where it's illegal to be gay are out. Business people who are pumping millions in a US regime that is dismantling the mechanisms of democracy are also a personal no-no.

Fwiw, football support is an ingrained thing; I make no moral judgement on supporters who go with the flow regarding owners like these. Newcastle fans openly welcoming the Saudis was gross, but I didn't expect them to stop going to watch Newcastle United because of them.

I don't know exactly how my relationship with the club would change in the event of owners I'd object to, but it would definitely be affected.

 

[covcity4life]

And that's fine. However trying to paint them as plucky little Wrexham who have battled their way from non league to within sight of the Premier league, sticks in the throat a bit. I mean they were paying L1 money in the conference.

Have they been painted as that though? That night just be in angry peoples heads?

I think they more pushing the story of the rise of Wrexham rather than underdogs

 

[Ccfcisparks]

WATFORD!!!

 

[StrettoBoy]

They could also be doing a Chelsea so Sheaf at 6m on a 4 year deal would only cost 1.5m per annum, the Doyle deal had a buy back clause at the same value so not sure they would have to amortise his value through the books.

I think they do have to amortise Doyle because it’s an option not an obligation, so there is no certainty that it will happen.