CET: Sky Blues take Coventry City Council to high court over bailout (1 Viewer)

[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

It has been ACL's and CCC's policy to edge SISU out, now, they don't, shouldn't, have that power.

Correct but only since they found out what Sisu were really like

 

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[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

It has been ACL's and CCC's policy to edge SISU out, now, they don't, shouldn't, have that power.

Shown when PWKH and another ACL person ties a 'SISU Out' balloon on Fisher's car, it was unprofessional, it compromised their impartiality, but most of all, how can they negotiate with people they treat with contempt? ACL have held back a deal just as much, if not more, than SISU.

Diametrically opposite to reality. It's been SISU's intention to oust ACL - proven by this court action. ACL may have been aggressor, but only being reactive to hostile intent started by SISU. To pretend otherwise is delusional in the extreme

 

[Noggin]

It has been ACL's and CCC's policy to edge SISU out, now, they don't, shouldn't, have that power.

Im not sure of your point, you are right acl and CCC dont and shouldn't have the power to force out the owner of the football club, it is however perfectly reasonable for them to want someone else when the current owners have been shown not to have the football clubs or the citys interests at heart. ACL though offered massive concessions to the club in order to agree a deal and I dont see how anyone else could have been more reasonable than that. Obviously they may well not be being reasonable anymore with the balloon incident but at this point not acting reasonably towards SISU is understandable and I dont see it as being harmful now, it would have been during negotiations however. We are clearly past any way that these people can agree a deal and work together.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Something is worth what someone is willing to pay for it, SISU obviously had planned to buy the loan for 5m if ACL defaulted but they hadn't, ACL have always paid what they owed so why would their mortgage be worth a tiny percentage of what was owed?

I owe 100k on my mortgage and have always paid it, do you think my bank would be willing to sell you my mortgage for 30k? when its going to make them 150k or so eventually?

If the mortatge was worth only 5 mill why didnt SISU buy it from the bank before the council? because it obviously wasnt only worth 5 at that point. It's possible its value would have droped if ACL couldnt and didnt pay but that didnt happen.

I really dont understand how trying to bankrupt a company you owe money too in order to buy them cheap isnt illegal.

One word: Capitialism.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

One word: Capitialism.

Try: immoral

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Diametrically opposite to reality. It's been SISU's intention to oust ACL - proven by this court action. ACL may have been aggressor, but only being reactive to hostile intent started by SISU. To pretend otherwise is delusional in the extreme

ACL have been trying to edge SISU out, in fact, I'd almost guarantee a rent agreement would've been settled by now if SISU weren't owners.

They're both at it, SISU want ACL out of the picture, ACL want SISU out of the picture, who wanted who out first? I don't know.

 

[tisza]

Surely the ACL had loan repayments to make that SISU's witholding of the rent made difficult.
The council as a stakeholder had to take actions to protect its investment.
It was Fisher who first brought up in the media about the ACL's being close to having to go into administration and in doing so pushed the council into securing its investment.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Try: immoral

Can capitalism be moral? Not really.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Correct but only since they found out what Sisu were really like

No offence, but this is a bit vague, what do mean exactly when you say 'only since they found out what SISU were really like'?

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Hang on, what if the CCC had over backed ACL, IF the loan was only worth 5m, not 14m, then it would be a even more of a disgrace to lend 14m of taxpayers money on this, especially given the economic hardship and cuts imposed from he HoC, yes, that would be immoral and disgusting from the CCC.

Yes that in itself is disgusting and immoral. Trying to force another party simply by not paying what is due is too! There are many specific examples on both sides we could apply the label disgusting and immoral to...hence I am labelling the whole damned mess disgusting and immoral!

 

[theferret]

Let's just get a couple of things clear here. Any claim that the Council somehow did the club out of money when the Ricoh was built is ridiculous.

The club never owned the land on which the Ricoh was built - just an option to buy which they could not take up. The Council and The Higgs Trust had to step in to buy the land and fund the build - no Council, no Higgs, no Ricoh. So how can they 'owe' the club anything?

Simply not true. They did not 'buy the land' and they didn't 'fund the build' either. The council's contribution (from its own coffers) was minimal, but they did help bridge the funding shortfall by securing a loan from the bank which was paid by ACL (up until recently at least). They did help facilitate the building of the arena, but to say they 'funded' it is nonsense.

 

[mark82]

Pretty sure SISU won't get anywhere with this. Council have a 50% stake in ACL so would surely be seen as protecting their existing investment.

 

[theferret]

Can capitalism be moral? Not really.

Yes it can.

 

[lordsummerisle]

Simply not true. They did not 'buy the land' and they didn't 'fund the build' either. The council's contribution (from its own coffers) was minimal, but they did help bridge the funding shortfall by securing a loan from the bank which was paid by ACL (up until recently at least). They did help facilitate the building of the arena, but to say they 'funded' it is nonsense.

It doesn't seem to matter how many times the facts are put out there about that, it just seems wilfully ignored.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Pretty sure SISU won't get anywhere with this. Council have a 50% stake in ACL so would surely be seen as protecting their existing investment.

Distorting the market is against UK and EU law, that's what SISU will argue, if ACL and CCC have, stay tuned folks.

 

[davebart]

Actually, I did. Nothing wrong with Highfield road. Least the club owned it. Moving to the ricoh has been a financial burden.

Bit late for that though wasn't it? We were actually about to be homeless.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

ACL have been trying to edge SISU out, in fact, I'd almost guarantee a rent agreement would've been settled by now if SISU weren't owners.

They're both at it, SISU want ACL out of the picture, ACL want SISU out of the picture, who wanted who out first? I don't know.

Hmmm.

Rent reduction of £900k.

Outstanding arrears reduced from £1.3m to £600k.

Escrow reduced to £200k.

ACL's share of F+B.

ACL to cross invoice total F+B revenue.

CCFC to regain 50% car parking revenue.

Yeah, sure looks like they were trying to force the club out Taylor. The rent boycott commenced at the same time as the ARVO charge-April 2012, when Thorn had secured relegation. Quite bluntly the intention was always to distress ACL and take control of it on the sly or, if that failed, use the charge to stop them getting anything.

SISU have never had any intention whatsoever of co-operating.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Yes it can.

If your willing to cut your profits by a massive percentage, it can be, just. Fair Trade is the best example, but how many of the most profitable businesses use fair trade? Nike (all those sports brands) Primark don't for starters.

When, or if, the 3rd world becomes unionised, capitalism's foundations will be shook to he core.

 

[davebart]

Distorting the market is against UK and EU law, that's what SISU will argue, if ACL and CCC have, stay tuned folks.

what market?

 

[grego_gee]

@Lesreidpolitics: 2/2 #CCFC Holdings will claim in court #acl mortgage with Yorkshire Bank was worth circa £5m, not £14m Coventry council taxpayer paid

They are in a good position to make that point! wasn't it bought off CCFC in the first place for £6m?...

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/coventry-city-fc/coventry-city-fc-news/2012/05/17/ricoh-arena-deal-should-have-made-coventry-city-great-says-paul-fletcher-92746-30988406/3/

imp:

 

[Jack Griffin]

SISU have never had any intention whatsoever of co-operating.

You got it.. pure $$$ chasers, devoid of ethics. Gimmee gimee gimeee..

 

[davebart]

If your willing to cut your profits by a massive percentage, it can be, just. Fair Trade is the best example, but how many of the most profitable businesses use fair trade? Nike (all those sports brands) Primark don't for starters.

When, or if, the 3rd world becomes unionised, capitalism's foundations will be shook to he core.

Do you work for Sisu or judge another shady business?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Distorting the market is against UK and EU law, that's what SISU will argue, if ACL and CCC have, stay tuned folks.

Then why has it taken them until now to challenge it?

 

[Sky blue north east]

Clear case delaying tactics and playing funny buggers why left so long to challenge it?? Also prob telling admin guy to ignore potential buyers surely this should not be allowed last throw dice by a desperate bunch off morons SISU OUT!!!

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

ACL have been trying to edge SISU out, in fact, I'd almost guarantee a rent agreement would've been settled by now if SISU weren't owners.

They're both at it, SISU want ACL out of the picture, ACL want SISU out of the picture, who wanted who out first? I don't know.

Good Lord. It's not about a rent agreement. Please tell me you see this. I'm losing strength :facepalm:

 

[luwalla]

Council funded the loan to ACL by taking out a loan themselves using a lower rate of interest. They will have been able to do this as they have a better credit rating than ACL would have.

So in fact this is actually benefiting taxpayers by generating income for the council.

jim again.. you are either not reading the statement.. or just making stuff up to suit your argument .. what part of the following statement are you not grasping..

"council officers told the Telegraph the £14million had initially come from the council's “cash balances“ * money set aside for unspecified council spending."

so they DID use council tax payers money.. they did not do what you keep saying.. and they have not yet offset that debt anywhere else..

it came out of tax payers money.. and it is still that way now!

 

[smouch1975]

SISU are arguing that the council have removed their "right" to purchase a distressed company on the cheap, by this intervention.

SISU don't actually need to state, they are the cause of the distress in the first place.

Scum, but I would be pleased to see the Arena and Club under one umbrella eventually. Just not the present regime

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Also, in response to the story itself, I didn't think this story could get any more farcical. Yet it has-the football club trying to take the council to the cleaners.

Read that again-these are the kind of people we have running our football club. Lurching from one idiotic move to the next in their never ending quest to finish off ACL. To say the remaining mortgage was actually £5m is utter garbage.

 

[luwalla]

and more to the point.. if the council had 14 million in surplus cash lying around.. then why did i wreck 600 pounds worth of alloy wheels recently , driving through war zone potholes all over the city!

 

[torchomatic]

A man after midnight?

You got it.. pure $$$ chasers, devoid of ethics. Gimmee gimee gimeee..

 

[davebart]

jim again.. you are either not reading the statement.. or just making stuff up to suit your argument .. what part of the following statement are you not grasping..

"council officers told the Telegraph the £14million had initially come from the council's “cash balances“ * money set aside for unspecified council spending."

so they DID use council tax payers money.. they did not do what you keep saying.. and they have not yet offset that debt anywhere else..

it came out of tax payers money.. and it is still that way now!

Is it because they actually own the stadium by any chance? unlike the club who have never owned a brick of it.

 

[davebart]

and more to the point.. if the council had 14 million in surplus cash lying around.. then why did i wreck 600 pounds worth of alloy wheels recently , driving through war zone potholes all over the city!

try driving a bit slower

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Hmmm.

Rent reduction of £900k.

Outstanding arrears reduced from £1.3m to £600k.

Escrow reduced to £200k.

ACL's share of F+B.

ACL to cross invoice total F+B revenue.

CCFC to regain 50% car parking revenue.

Yeah, sure looks like they were trying to force the club out Taylor. The rent boycott commenced at the same time as the ARVO charge-April 2012, when Thorn had secured relegation. Quite bluntly the intention was always to distress ACL and take control of it on the sly or, if that failed, use the charge to stop them getting anything.

SISU have never had any intention whatsoever of co-operating.

Looks can be deceiving.

Was the rent still double the average? Yes. The rent agreed was 400k, but SISU said they wanted 150k, compromise was made.
With FFP kicking I, do CCFC need every penny they can scrap, F&B, should be 100%, we make the event, it's our fans going to CCFC games, no 3rd or 4th party should get a penny off us, the leeches, ironically, this is lining a 3rd party's pocket, which we never hear about on here!
Rent arrears should either have been wiped, at best, or worst, at the new set rate.

When SISU wanted to negotiate, who said no? ACL, not SISU.

Cunning plan, don't see how it couldnt benefit the club, you get the scaremongers and conspiracy theorists, but nothing is fact. I haven't come out and said SISU haven't tried to destabilise ACL.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Good Lord. It's not about a rent agreement. Please tell me you see this. I'm losing strength :facepalm:

I don't know how many times I've had to write out that last offer. Think I'll need one of your pain au chocolats to calm down.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Good Lord. It's not about a rent agreement. Please tell me you see this. I'm losing strength :facepalm:

No it isn't, it's gone past that, but if an agreement was reached, it wouldn't have come to this, quite clearly, all that's going on stems from the initial rent negotiations.