CCFC should buy Cov Rugby Club (3 Viewers)

[The Philosopher]

Following in from the Butts thread and the Wasps debacle, it may be that if SISU had any business brains (which they don't) they could put the cat amongst the pigeons and buy Coventry RFC.

On a purely hypothetical basis, it could actually work.

Bramall Lane, Meadow Lane, the KC stadium, Swansea and several others groundshare with rugby sides so there's no problem in practical terms with regards to the pitch.
The Butts could be quite cheap to develop initially, the current grandstand is okay, maybe a temporary stand opposite and some deep prefab concrete terraces (safe standing / barriers etc.) would get the capacity up to somewhere near what we need. Standing areas are permitted at this level and upon promotion (we can but dream) there is a period of grace before all-seating is required. Couple that with the ongoing campaign for safe standing and (by the time we get anywhere near promotion it may have been approved) we may not need get into huge debt creating another soul-less bowl.

On a personal basis I would prefer to have a few pre-match drinks in Earlsdon / Craven Street / Chapelfields / City Centre rather than the Ricoh area. Similarly post - match, it's much easier from the Butts to get to the train station or get a bus. Parking in town has got to be much better than it was at HR or the Ricoh. I would much prefer to stand in a packed cantilever concrete stand than sit isolated in a sea of pale blue plastic seats.

So pros and cons

Pro: (if SISU buy Cov RFC)

A permanent home for CCFC in the centre of Coventry, not "in the Coventry Area".

Council will have less power to block. The tenants, CRFC have a lease presumably and therefore the right to develop / sublet as they see fit.

Any sponsors of stands/signs within the ground will get potentially more coverage.

If (and this is all hypothetical remember) there are offers such as "free tickets to see Cov Rugby with every CCFC season ticket" during international breaks etc. it would give CRFC a potential for getting some new fans.

Some sharing of resources (ground / pitch maint - maybe even Cov Rugby could use Ryton facilities). Don't know about Rugby and Academy Status but there may be some advantage for the Rugby club to have access to the educational / sport science etc.

In general a much better match day experience (in my opinion, many will prefer the Ricoh but that's up to them). Easy for away fans by rail - adds atmosphere / revenue. Easy for Cov fans, better in terms of pre and post match eating and drinking.

Once we are getting over 20k regularly we can either build new, expand the Butts or share Ricoh (with the Wasps at this rate)

SISU do actually have money or at least access to money - they just don't want to keep throwing it away (court cases excepting). It could be a way to balance their losses on paper - own a ground with two clubs and then sell to a proper outfit.



Cons:

It's SISU - they will ruin anything good.

Traffic issues around Earlsdon (actually, thinking about it, it can't be worse than Ricoh and there are plenty of other options)

It's SISU - they will ruin anything good.

I'm prepared to be shot down but I thought it would make a change from the usual repetitive posts

 

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[TrueSkyBlueLiam]

It would be difficult to develop Butts due to the surrounding areas. Plus, SISU wouldn't open their walletts

 

[Otis]

It would be difficult to develop Butts due to the surrounding areas. Plus, SISU wouldn't open their walletts

Yep, that's what I'm thinking. How on earth can it be developed much further? You been round there lately? It's already been redeveloped heavily around the ground. Can't see much scope for much expansion at all.

 

[Qwerty70]

Won't happen but how good would it be to have a stadium so close to the city centre. St James's Park (Newcastle not Exeter) is my favourite ground, right in heart of city where you can feel the atmosphere build and get a drink easily! Compare that to the souless grounds in the wilderness, Bolton, Middlesbrough etc

 

[Rusty Trombone]

I thought the Council owned the ground, why would SISU pay for it to be developed?

 

[Warwickhunt]

We should re franchise as Coventry City University FC and the council will bend over backwards for the club and give them any amount of land near the city centre

 

[The Philosopher]

I guess it depends on the length of the lease. A 100 year lease is as good as freehold sometimes.

 

[Rusty Trombone]

I guess it depends on the length of the lease. A 100 year lease is as good as freehold sometimes.

Sometimes, but SISU seem to want freehold, so whatever plans they have seem to be scuppered by leases.

 

[Hobo]

The biggest flaw in this idea is the people of Coventry do not want SISU anywhere near another of it's sporting teams. Coventry Rugby are doing fine and making good progress. It is feasible they could get close to promotion this season.

Anyway, this is a more interesting rumour...supplied by the man who told me Wasps were looking at coming to The Ricoh 12 months ago. Broadstreet RFC (who have built their club on canny land sales) are looking at selling their current site. They are looking to buy the old Brandon Nurseries land opposite the Speedway Stadium. Now what could become of their current site, plenty of land, a stand and a club house and right next to a road that links into the Midland motorway network?

 

[The Philosopher]

The Brandon story may be credible. In any case, be it the Ricoh, Butts or Brandon; it seems daft to only use a multi-million pound facility 20 odd times per year when it is proved that double that is doable without ruining the pitch. A joint rugby and association football ground is just sensible.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Now what could become of their current site, plenty of land, a stand and a club house and right next to a road that links into the Midland motorway network?

Lovely rumour, although having just battled my way around the cars parked on the pavement there today, suspect it might just need a few upgrades to the road network... and that would involve CCC

 

[Ashdown]

Crikey, do folk want SISU to screw up the Rugby Club as well as the football club. They might as well have bought Brandon as well and shag over the Bees to complete the set !

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Crikey, do folk want SISU to screw up the Rugby Club as well as the football club. They might as well have bought Brandon as well and shag over the Bees to complete the set !

In short... no.

Happy?

Years ago Richardson mooted the idea of buying Cov Rugby. Economies of scale on kit, programmes, ticket sales, merch etc. would work, Butts was to be the main Cov ground and CCFC would use it for training and reserve games, bigger Cov games were to be played at Highfield Road.

I like the idea actually... but would be nice to see the idea come because someone fancies *our* sporting teams as a great ego trip rather than financial or commercial...

 

[The Philosopher]

Fwiw it's a 125 year lease. Whatever stands are built be they at a new ground or the butts (or even the existing Ricoh) will not have a use life that long.

 

[Hobo]

The Brandon story may be credible. In any case, be it the Ricoh, Butts or Brandon; it seems daft to only use a multi-million pound facility 20 odd times per year when it is proved that double that is doable without ruining the pitch. A joint rugby and association football ground is just sensible.

Of course it is do able and sensible to share the Ricoh. But when have SISU done sense? They should have bought into it years ago...it was the obvious thing to do!

 

[Grendel]

Of course it is do able and sensible to share the Ricoh. But when have SISU done sense? They should have bought into it years ago...it was the obvious thing to do!

As the previous owners including Joe Elliot should have done .

 

[Rusty Trombone]

As the previous owners including Joe Elliot should have done .

Has he been an owner?

 

[Grendel]

Has he been an owner?

I assume he was a major shareholder along with mcginnity and GR and I assume they chose not to buy back the stadium - he was certainly a significant board member and I never remember him ever saying he wanted to buy or saw a benefit of such .

 

[Rusty Trombone]

I assume he was a major shareholder along with mcginnity and GR and I assume they chose not to buy back the stadium - he was certainly a significant board member and I never remember him ever saying he wanted to buy or saw a benefit of such .

Certainly don't recall anyone mentioning buying the share back in those days, but always assumed Elliott's role was fairly minor from a power point of view.

 

[duffer]

Following in from the Butts thread and the Wasps debacle, it may be that if SISU had any business brains (which they don't) they could put the cat amongst the pigeons and buy Coventry RFC.

...

I'm prepared to be shot down but I thought it would make a change from the usual repetitive posts

Wouldn't want to shoot you down, but the thought of SISU having anything to do with CRFC fills me with dread. This is a business that has turned the corner, and is well-run, sustainable and improving. The guys in charge now seem to have a plan, and I would hope are too level-headed to even consider this hypothetically.

In terms of specifics, I suspect that the Council (as leaseholders) would have a fair deal of control over sub-lets, and also hold most of the levers with regard to further development because they can certainly make planning permission difficult too.

Scary thought though, thanks for giving me nightmares!

 

[Hobo]

As the previous owners including Joe Elliot should have done .

There is no point lamenting or bitching what previous owners have or have not done. The only people who can influence our club and take it forward are the current owners.

It is not like SISU have been here 5 minutes. I don't care if they have done a complete u turn on their original plan. But until they come out and clearly outline a business plan, a vision of how we are going to get from row Z to row A, I have no faith in them.

 

[The Philosopher]

Nightmares not intended, duffer, but sorry in any case!

Part of my point was that combining the two clubs may make it easier for a SISU exit.

SISU'S plan always was to buy the club and then sell it on for a profit (unlucky). Their new plan is to sell it on for the least loss (one presumes).

The vast majority of Cov fans want them gone. They (SISU) have put an equal amount of money and idiots into the club. The idiots are easy to lose - the money a hard pill to swallow for them.

It is not controversial to say that CCFC will have more value with their own ground - even if it is a 125 year lease on the butts. Any new investor may have their own plans but a ground that they have a solid base on is a must. There is some potential for developing the Butts. Tall cantilever stands rather than a sprawled bowl take up less footprint and create a more intense atmosphere - like the west terrace as was.

Coventry is still one of the biggest uk cities with only one football league club and the added bonus of a few large catchment towns with no fl club (Nuneaton, rugby, Leaminton, Warwick etc)

That potential makes the club have some value. 2 clubs, 2 opportunities, better chance of SISU getting a sake and getting out.

Hull is a similar city to ours. 10 Years ago they were a nothing team (respectfully to them). Now they have a multi-million investor and Rugby and Football are played at the same stadium. If we had a similar owner (he wanted to rebrand to Hull Tigers) then could call us Coventry Cougars for all I care (in fact he's looking to sell Hull, does anyone have his number?)

So, if I were SISU, I would buy the Rugby club, go on the PR charm offensive, package up the two clubs, sell, and scuttle back off to Mayfair.

 

[Otis]

Nightmares not intended, duffer, but sorry in any case!

Part of my point was that combining the two clubs may make it easier for a SISU exit.

SISU'S plan always was to buy the club and then sell it on for a profit (unlucky). Their new plan is to sell it on for the least loss (one presumes).

The vast majority of Cov fans want them gone. They (SISU) have put an equal amount of money and idiots into the club. The idiots are easy to lose - the money a hard pill to swallow for them.

It is not controversial to say that CCFC will have more value with their own ground - even if it is a 125 year lease on the butts. Any new investor may have their own plans but a ground that they have a solid base on is a must. There is some potential for developing the Butts. Tall cantilever stands rather than a sprawled bowl take up less footprint and create a more intense atmosphere - like the west terrace as was.

Coventry is still one of the biggest uk cities with only one football league club and the added bonus of a few large catchment towns with no fl club (Nuneaton, rugby, Leaminton, Warwick etc)

That potential makes the club have some value. 2 clubs, 2 opportunities, better chance of SISU getting a sake and getting out.

Hull is a similar city to ours. 10 Years ago they were a nothing team (respectfully to them). Now they have a multi-million investor and Rugby and Football are played at the same stadium. If we had a similar owner (he wanted to rebrand to Hull Tigers) then could call us Coventry Cougars for all I care (in fact he's looking to sell Hull, does anyone have his number?)

So, if I were SISU, I would buy the Rugby club, go on the PR charm offensive, package up the two clubs, sell, and scuttle back off to Mayfair.

The Butts Arena has a capacity of just 4,000. Looking at the ground there, there is very little scope for expansion. Hotels and flats etc. have been built or are being built as we very speak.

Would guess the biggest it could ever be would be 10,000.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Would guess the biggest it could ever be would be 10,000.

The original plan was 10,000.

Coventry does a decent job of scaling down its plans mind you.

 

[Otis]

The original plan was 10,000.

Coventry does a decent job of scaling down its plans mind you.

It's what i fear about any new stadium too. The owners may well say 15,000 or 18,000, but when push came to shove I would expect it to be built a lot more cheaply that first mooted (remember Arena 2000 and retractable pich? Roof?) and it to end up a much smaller capacity too.

 

[theferret]

It's what i fear about any new stadium too. The owners may well say 15,000 or 18,000, but when push came to shove I would expect it to be built a lot more cheaply that first mooted (remember Arena 2000 and retractable pich? Roof?) and it to end up a much smaller capacity too.

I know a little bit about this sort of stuff, and with some clever design you could get to 18,000-20,000 at the Butts, but you would have to swallow up the park and rotate the ground clockwise a bit to make best use of the space - that's as it stands, but of course there is a giant retirement village being built now on the old college site which would make it very difficult.

Nice idea, and if our worst fears re the Ricoh are realised, might make a bit of sense. People wouldn't swallow SISU buying the Rugby club, but a 50/50 partnership might work. But yes, development of BPA would be very difficult.

 

[The Philosopher]

At the moment the a Ricoh is too big for us and the Butts is too small.

The Rugby club Wasps may well end up with the Ricoh. (They may not want to keep sky blue seats btw).

If the Wasps do end up there, it is inevitable that some local fans of either CCFC or CRFE may have a look and may become Wasps fans (you could also include Nuneaton RFC).

The Ricoh can handle two teams. The Butts pitch can handle two. For the foreseeable, a 10000 Butts would be a better prospect, with the option if using the Ricoh if we get promoted or we get a big cup tie.

Long term, the best place for a football ground is near the city centre and near the railway / bus station. The Ricoh is a good site for exhibitions and such which attract national visitors, but is no good for football / pre and post football socialising. There may be some suitable sites just in the edge of the ring road. Brandon/Bedworth is missing the point.