CCFC Appoint Restructing Experts (1 Viewer)

sky blue john · Dec 17, 2012

As said before none of us know what we get for the rent figure nothing has been broken down. So based on not having this knowledge none of us can make an informed decision.
So pretty much your all guessing or talking bollox.
What i do know is that the 150K figure that sisu want to pay about 6-7k per home game is probably not enough to cover the costs.
So a compromise needs to be made !!!
ACL have already offered a reduction and the ball is in Sisu's court.

CJparker · Dec 17, 2012

Grendel said:
The taxpayer isn't affected by the arrangement. It's an irrelevant red herring.

Many council funded stadium allow football clubs to reside in them for much lower rents. The argument they have signed so cough up also does not hold up to scrutiny. Commercial contracts are ripped up and resigned all the time.

What really annoys me is people like you call yourself a supporter but are quite happy for the club to start with a huge handicap compared to their opponents -- namely a rent which equates to over 20% of its turnover. When the club started playing there they had to have 22,000 paying adults to break even. It is ridiculous and your stance reveals you as not a supporter at all. You must be an ACL plant -- it is the only logical explanation for writing such nonsense.

Grendel you keep forgetting whose fault it is that turnover is so low! CCFC, not ACL. They haven't broken the deal, City have. I am a City supporter, but that doesn't mean that I want our club to behave so dishonourably.

I am ashamed to be a City fan, not just because of the way our owners behave, but because of people like you. You make me sick.

We'll_live_and_die · Dec 17, 2012

CJparker said:
Grendel you keep forgetting whose fault it is that turnover is so low! CCFC, not ACL. They haven't broken the deal, City have. I am a City supporter, but that doesn't mean that I want our club to behave so dishonourably.

I am ashamed to be a City fan, not just because of the way our owners behave, but because of people like you. You make me sick.

Wait a minute, if you are struggling to pay your mortgage, can you go into the bank and ask to restructure? Is this the Banks fault that you are struggling? It's not, but they are still open to talks and possibly payment holidays. If ACL would give CCFC a lower rent until we achieve promotion surely this is no different?

torchomatic · Dec 17, 2012

And an outraged taxpayer. My, you are a crotchety boy.

CJparker said:
I am ashamed to be a City fan, not just because of the way our owners behave, but because of people like you. You make me sick.

Brighton Sky Blue · Dec 17, 2012

ACL have effectively budged £900k from their starting position. The club have budged £0-could the departure of just one player from a 37 man squad not be done to bridge the gap?

CJparker · Dec 17, 2012

Rich said:
Wait a minute, if you are struggling to pay your mortgage, can you go into the bank and ask to restructure? Is this the Banks fault that you are struggling? It's not, but they are still open to talks and possibly payment holidays. If ACL would give CCFC a lower rent until we achieve promotion surely this is no different?

But we don't have a mortgage.

If I become unable to pay the rent on my flat because of my own failings at work, which get me demoted, can I ask my landlord for a 90% reduction in rent? No, he'd tell me to pay up or pack my bags. Rightly so.

Brighton Sky Blue · Dec 17, 2012

Rich said:
What has that got to do with someone calling people sheep because they are only complaining now TF has mentioned it?

Um, nothing? The club has been overcharged for 7-8 years says Grendel-why has it not taken umbridge over it before?

Sky Blue Pete · Dec 17, 2012

Rich said:
Wait a minute, if you are struggling to pay your mortgage, can you go into the bank and ask to restructure? Is this the Banks fault that you are struggling? It's not, but they are still open to talks and possibly payment holidays. If ACL would give CCFC a lower rent until we achieve promotion surely this is no different?

exactly right if that is what sisu are saying

Grendel · Dec 17, 2012

CJparker said:
But we don't have a mortgage.

If I become unable to pay the rent on my flat because of my own failings at work, which get me demoted, can I ask my landlord for a 90% reduction in rent? No, he'd tell me to pay up or pack my bags. Rightly so.

I think if you discovered your greedy landlord was charging you 10 times the price of your neighbour you may be a tad disappointed.

CJparker · Dec 17, 2012

torchomatic said:
And an outraged taxpayer. My, you are a crotchety boy.

Oh because of course the money that the council put into the stadium project came out of the sky didn't it? Yes, as someone who contributes to a local authority, to see that local authority's investment being treated with disdain and ingratitude by CCFC is an embarrassment. We are getting near Pompey territory in terms of riding roughshod over our agreements.

I want to see ACL force us out. There is no viable alternative ground - SISU will have to come back with their tail between their legs and hopefully pay up.

Warwickhunt · Dec 17, 2012

Even if we do ageee a vastly reduced Rent! Totally agree come January the 1st when all the loan players have gone back you will find that we have an embargo placed upon us by the FFP, looking a for a Paddle at the moment cos we ain't got one:slap:
Make the most of our results for now cos they are going to fall away as sure as God made little apples:facepalm:

Brighton Sky Blue · Dec 17, 2012

CJparker said:
Oh because of course the money that the council put into the stadium project came out of the sky didn't it? Yes, as someone who contributes to a local authority, to see that local authority's investment being treated with disdain and ingratitude by CCFC is an embarrassment. We are getting near Pompey territory in terms of riding roughshod over our agreements.

I want to see ACL force us out. There is no viable alternative ground - SISU will have to come back with their tail between their legs and hopefully pay up.

That last paragraph I simply cannot agree with. Ludicrous.

CJparker · Dec 17, 2012

Grendel said:
I think if you discovered your greedy landlord was charging you 10 times the price of your neighbour you may be a tad disappointed.

I think you'll find that £1.2m p/a for a Premier League club is a perfectly reasonable rent. Yes, were' in L1 with a PL facility, but that's hardly ACL's fault is it?

If our home ground was Boundary Park, I would agree with you 100%. If the club were happy to pay £5m per year in rent if we get to the Prem, I would agree with you 100%. But you can't have it both ways.

Mucca Mad Boys · Dec 17, 2012

CJparker said:
I think you'll find that £1.2m p/a for a Premier League club is a perfectly reasonable rent. Yes, were' in L1 with a PL facility, but that's hardly ACL's fault is it?

If our home ground was Boundary Park, I would agree with you 100%. If the club were happy to pay £5m per year in rent if we get to the Prem, I would agree with you 100%. But you can't have it both ways.

Remind me how many PL games the RICOH has hosted... Hmmmmmm :thinking about:

Ipswich have a PL venue, they pay 30k p/y Hull have, they pay 5k p/y, Swansea & Ospreys haven't techinically paid any rent, Donny pay 100k for good stadium, possibly PL standard.

You're wrong on so many levels.

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Dec 17, 2012

SkyBlue_Taylor said:
Remind me how many PL games the RICOH has hosted... Hmmmmmm :thinking about:

Ipswich have a PL venue, they pay 30k p/y Hull have, they pay 5k p/y, Swansea & Ospreys haven't techinically paid any rent, Donny pay 100k for good stadium, possibly PL standard.

You're wrong on so many levels.

Surely the time to make such a comparison was before signing a contract? Or, by means of a fall back at the time SISU took control if the club. Then there would be validity to the comparisons you try to draw.

But SISU have only made an issue if the rent we all know is too high compared with our contemporaries, post-relegation.

And they need to take some responsibility for that

Sub · Dec 17, 2012

one thing is for sure that the no matter what happens with the rent we can not continue like this !! just as things go right on the pitch it goes completly tits up off it !!! i am for one sick to the back teeth of my home town club being used as a political football being kicked between ACL/council and SISU. I just wish they would sort out a deal that benifits all parties but most of all benifits CCFC and the poor fans that are caught in the crossfire!!!!!

Noggin · Dec 17, 2012

Rich said:
Wait a minute, if you are struggling to pay your mortgage, can you go into the bank and ask to restructure? Is this the Banks fault that you are struggling? It's not, but they are still open to talks and possibly payment holidays. If ACL would give CCFC a lower rent until we achieve promotion surely this is no different?

Acl's current offer is massivly massivly more generous than the bank you mention in your analogy.

We'll_live_and_die · Dec 17, 2012

Noggin said:
Acl's current offer is massivly massivly more generous than the bank you mention in your analogy.

What the bank that will offer 12months with no payments and extend the mortgage by that amount?

Harry Grout · Dec 17, 2012

Grendel said:
I think if you discovered your greedy landlord was charging you 10 times the price of your neighbour you may be a tad disappointed.

Aren't the facts that in 2005, CCFC in the form of Robinson, Fletcher et al signed up to the deal at the Ricoh including the rent payments. When SISU arrived in town, they must have sanctioned the level of rent as part of the due diligence process. Did anyone hold a gun to their head to do so?

I'm sure they thought promotion to the PL was something of a formality and an annual rent of £1.2M would not have been such an issue, and the thought of languishing in the Championship or worse still, relegation to League 1 never entered their heads or business plan. Now they find that the maths don't add up and are scraping the barrel to find any excuse for not honouring their commitment. CCFC have been shafted for years by a succession of incompetents at board level.

Noggin · Dec 17, 2012

Rich said:
What the bank that will offer 12months with no payments and extend the mortgage by that amount?

Sisu have taken an unauthorised 12 month payment holiday, ACL have offered to lower the "mortgage" by 2/3rd's, have given 10 years to pay off the missed payments and thrown in some massive freebies. You arn't getting a bank that resonable anywhere.

I want to pay the minimum amount of rent as much as any City fan and I'm biased towards our club like we all are but I don't see how any reasonable person can look at ACL's offer and SISU's actions and not conclude that ACL are unbeliveably reasonable and SISU are acting completely unacceptably.

Brighton Sky Blue · Dec 17, 2012

Noggin said:
Sisu have taken an unauthorised 12 month payment holiday, ACL have offered to lower the "mortgage" by 2/3rd's, have given 10 years to pay off the missed payments and thrown in some massive freebies. You arn't getting a bank that resonable anywhere.

I want to pay the minimum amount of rent as much as any City fan and I'm biased towards our club like we all are but I don't see how any reasonable person can look at ACL's offer and SISU's actions and not conclude that ACL are unbeliveably reasonable and SISU are acting completely unacceptably.

Good to see someone using their noggin around here.

We'll_live_and_die · Dec 17, 2012

Noggin said:
Sisu have taken an unauthorised 12 month payment holiday, ACL have offered to lower the "mortgage" by 2/3rd's, have given 10 years to pay off the missed payments and thrown in some massive freebies. You arn't getting a bank that resonable anywhere.

I want to pay the minimum amount of rent as much as any City fan and I'm biased towards our club like we all are but I don't see how any reasonable person can look at ACL's offer and SISU's actions and not conclude that ACL are unbeliveably reasonable and SISU are acting completely unacceptably.

I totally agree, as I stated in my first post in this thread I am not arguing for either side. CCFC have been little shits.

Mucca Mad Boys · Dec 17, 2012

CJparker said:
I hope ACL enforce their original contract and make CCFC pay every single penny - as a taxpayer I am outraged that ACL (part owned by the council) compromised when there was no reason to do so.

For a stadium like the Ricoh, the current rent is perfectly reasonable - it's not ACL's fault that we are in League One instead of the Premier, so why should they take the hit for the incompetence of CCFC's owners? When SISU came in, they agreed to the current rent as it wasn't unaffordable given their plans - they just didn't bank on failure. Now they want to be baled out by others.

What really annoys me is how some people like Grendel and Sky Blue Taylor are so hard-headed that they can't see past the CCFC perspective. Yes, of course a rent reduction would be good for CCFC given our lowly status, but variable rent (based on league position) wasn't part of the deal when SISU signed up to it - precisely because they knew that in the Premier League, their ultimate goal within the business plan, £1.2m p/a is chicken feed. Would SISU be happy to pay, say, £5m per year in rent if we get to the Premier? Don't make me laugh.

As a taxpayer and someone who just hates bullies generally, I want to see ACL enforce the terms of its contract against CCFC.

You just supported my argument.

SISU didn't sign the deal, the morons before did.

Would SISU be happy to pay 5m in the prem? No, I wouldn't either, Man C pay 3m for a lot better stadium. 1.28 is premiership rent, we're not in the premiership.

Bully tactics? I think ACL proposing to wind us up are the bullies here, we cant afford their rent, so we dont pay.

Grendel · Dec 17, 2012

Harry Grout said:
Aren't the facts that in 2005, CCFC in the form of Robinson, Fletcher et al signed up to the deal at the Ricoh including the rent payments. When SISU arrived in town, they must have sanctioned the level of rent as part of the due diligence process. Did anyone hold a gun to their head to do so?

I'm sure they thought promotion to the PL was something of a formality and an annual rent of £1.2M would not have been such an issue, and the thought of languishing in the Championship or worse still, relegation to League 1 never entered their heads or business plan. Now they find that the maths don't add up and are scraping the barrel to find any excuse for not honouring their commitment. CCFC have been shafted for years by a succession of incompetents at board level.

Maybe that should have challenged it before. I fail to see why that prevents them doing so now. Most council backed stadiums allow the football club to play for a nominal fee. We are the exception not the rule.

It will unless it is resolved finish the club. It I'd staggering that this stance gets the support of some supporters.

Brighton Sky Blue · Dec 17, 2012

SkyBlue_Taylor said:
You just supported my argument.

SISU didn't sign the deal, the morons before did.

Would SISU be happy to pay 5m in the prem? No, I wouldn't either, Man C pay 3m for a lot better stadium. 1.28 is premiership rent, we're not in the premiership.

Bully tactics? I think ACL proposing to wind us up are the bullies here, we cant afford their rent, so we dont pay.

Problem is SBT that it was TF, and TF alone, who made this decision back in April. A few months later ACL offer to halve the rent-still not good enough for TF, so he keeps withholding and racking up a whopping great bill; and when ACL offer a £800k reduction, freebies, and a 10 year repayment timeframe for the outstanding rent he accumulated, he still refuses. If the club is sent to the cleaners it is that man I will hold personally accountable.

stupot07 · Dec 17, 2012

CJparker said:
Oh because of course the money that the council put into the stadium project came out of the sky didn't it? Yes, as someone who contributes to a local authority, to see that local authority's investment being treated with disdain and ingratitude by CCFC is an embarrassment. We are getting near Pompey territory in terms of riding roughshod over our agreements.

I want to see ACL force us out. There is no viable alternative ground - SISU will have to come back with their tail between their legs and hopefully pay up.

Wow, just wow

Harry Grout · Dec 17, 2012

Grendel said:
Maybe that should have challenged it before. I fail to see why that prevents them doing so now. Most council backed stadiums allow the football club to play for a nominal fee. We are the exception not the rule.

It will unless it is resolved finish the club. It I'd staggering that this stance gets the support of some supporters.

Grendel, totally agree that they should be able to challenge it. Just saying that we are still paying the price and consequences of decisions taken years ago and nobody in authority - SISU, ACL, Council, former CCFC Directors and board members - comes out with much credit at all.

Mucca Mad Boys · Dec 17, 2012

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Problem is SBT that it was TF, and TF alone, who made this decision back in April. A few months later ACL offer to halve the rent-still not good enough for TF, so he keeps withholding and racking up a whopping great bill; and when ACL offer a £800k reduction, freebies, and a 10 year repayment timeframe for the outstanding rent he accumulated, he still refuses. If the club is sent to the cleaners it is that man I will hold personally accountable.

What were people saying when we were offered half rent? Take it, were they wrong? Yes. We get offered 67% reduction, looks good yes, is still too much? Yes, will we get an even better deal from ACL? Most likely I think. Will you and your faction look like fools in the event of that happening!? Yes.

I'm very confident we will get a deal that will favour CCFC.

Bennets Afro · Dec 17, 2012

Didn't the guy from the higgs say that sisu ha the chance to reneg the rent when they took over and chose not to???

torchomatic · Dec 17, 2012

Maybe I'm immune to it now but the number of people who want the club they support to be put out of business should really amaze me. You're another one.

Truly shocking attitude.

CJparker said:
I want to see ACL force us out. There is no viable alternative ground - SISU will have to come back with their tail between their legs and hopefully pay up.

covcity4life · Dec 17, 2012

CJparker said:
Oh because of course the money that the council put into the stadium project came out of the sky didn't it? Yes, as someone who contributes to a local authority, to see that local authority's investment being treated with disdain and ingratitude by CCFC is an embarrassment. We are getting near Pompey territory in terms of riding roughshod over our agreements.

I want to see ACL force us out. There is no viable alternative ground - SISU will have to come back with their tail between their legs and hopefully pay up.

fuck off and support ACL utd

SkyBlueCharlie · Dec 17, 2012

NICK......where is that bullshit counter I asked for???

Brighton Sky Blue · Dec 17, 2012

SkyBlue_Taylor said:
What were people saying when we were offered half rent? Take it, were they wrong? Yes. We get offered 67% reduction, looks good yes, is still too much? Yes, will we get an even better deal from ACL? Most likely I think. Will you and your faction look like fools in the event of that happening!? Yes.

I'm very confident we will get a deal that will favour CCFC.

Accepting the half price reduction would not have stopped negotiations from continuing but would have been a measure of goodwill from the club and would not have us lumbered with over £1m to pay on Boxing Day.

Brighton Sky Blue · Dec 17, 2012

torchomatic said:
Maybe I'm immune to it now but the number of people who want the club they support to be put out of business should really amaze me. You're another one.

Truly shocking attitude.

Crucial difference is Torch that most of us just want to see the club act responsibly-until today though I didn't actually think a few people wanted to force the club out. I stand corrected.

torchomatic · Dec 17, 2012

Agree, BSB. We all, well the majority of us want a good outcome for everyone involved. As for CJP's post, I've noticed a growing number of similar comments over the last few weeks. It's shocking, it really is.

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Crucial difference is Torch that most of us just want to see the club act responsibly-until today though I didn't actually think a few people wanted to force the club out. I stand corrected.

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