operationprem
New Member
Saying on mercia he's signed new contract
Carl Baker (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter operationprem
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operationprem
New Member
Didn't say how long probably be 4 years if bell is anything to go by
sw88
Chief Commentator!
I know we are having to make do with the players we have, but seriously, what has this guy done since he's been at the club? Im not having a go, as he does try, but I think I can count the number of good games he's had on one hand! Unfortunately trying doesnt get you anywhere in the league, let alone football. Yet SISU deem him good enough for a new contract?? Just goes to show that they are planning for League 1 stuff IMO!
Like I say, im not having a go at Baker, but if he is the type of player SISU have the ambition to keep at the club, its no wonder so many CCFC fans are worried about the dreaded relegation.
Like I say, im not having a go at Baker, but if he is the type of player SISU have the ambition to keep at the club, its no wonder so many CCFC fans are worried about the dreaded relegation.
Walking Bird
New Member
He's cheap. End of
operationprem
New Member
If think the more players they have on long contracts the more money sisu can ask for
Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
He's a prolific L1 goalscorer. He'll get 15 next year if we go down 
Marty
Well-Known Member
I was expecting this, been saying for weeks we would, I seriously think Thorn needs to go, he quite clearly doesn't have a clue what makes a good player and doesn't. Bell, McPake, Baker and rumors of McSheffrey signing a new deal, shows that he lacks ambition and has none to little influence on potential new signings. You could say well he has no money, but what money he has been given he has wasted badly. We will achieve nothing with him and not only we will not achieve anything this season he has secured our future with no hope by offering these players deals, not a single team in the football will take any of these players we have offered contracts to.
SkyBlue_Bear83
Well-Known Member
Thorn is hardly in a position to turn his nose up at new contracts with the state of our squad. Without those 4 players we wouldn't be able to field a team on a Saturday.
Marty
Well-Known Member
please. so you are happy for Bell & baker to stroll around the pitch, could swap them for 2 people from the stands and they would be just as bad.
SkyBlue_Bear83
Well-Known Member
No I don't think they are great players, I am sure Thorn would like to have better players than Bell or Baker but AT is hardly going to come out and say "Yea there not very good, if the owners would pull there finger out of there arse we could have some better players but this is what we are stuck with. "
All I am saying is Thorn is in no position to turn his nose up and say no I don't want those players.
The phrase beggars can't be choosers comes to mind
stupot07
Well-Known Member
Marty - is it Thorn or is it the board who are offering the contracts to make sure that we don't have the repeat of last summer - not only did we lose our best three players for nothing, we also lost the likes Osbourne, McIndoe and the other squad players to nothing too.
Marty
Well-Known Member
Beggers can be choosers, and the fact that we feel we can attract nobody better then Bell or Baker says it all to me. If Thorn doesn't have the influence to attract better players then he needs to go to be replaced with somebody who can attrack the level of player we need.
Marty
Well-Known Member
I would assume that Thorn has said that he wants to keep them, and the directors/delieu draws up the offers, the only players we miss from last season are Westwood & King, Osbourne hasn't played in god knows how long yet you seem to think he should of been offered an extenstion, has done nothing to warrant an extension and by offering him a deal would send out all the wrong signals, why should we offer players deals who offer us nothing in return??
SkyBlue_Bear83
Well-Known Member
Yea because everyone was queuing up to play under Aidy Boothroyd and Coleman, King was special circumstances.
Finance dictates largely to the quality of players you can attract.
I can't believe we just gained a tremendous point at Elland Rd and people are still having a go at Thorn.
But hey ho lets get rid of Bell, Baker, Mcsheffrey, Eastwood, Platt, ROD and we can just play the u18's instead as SISU won't provide any players of similar ability let alone better. That seems to be your plan anyway :facepalm:
Marty
Well-Known Member
hahahahahahahahahahaha what a clown,
I never said play the under 18's, but Thomas, Bigi, & Christie have out shone every single other 'expierenced' pro in our squad. You could let Baker, Bell & McSheffrey see our their contracts, bring in 1 solid decent midfielder + clingan extension, Thomas & Bigi will have had this whole season to step up to the mark, and start next season with a midfield of Clingan, Bigi, Thomas & another, which is a hell of a lot better then Clingan, Bell, Baker & McSheffrey. But hey it's not like offering shit players long deals has put us in this position to start with. :facepalm:
Glenn Storer
New Member
Oh Christ, I hope it's not a long one at least.
SkyBlue_Bear83
Well-Known Member
So your plan is to make the number of players in a squad less? Good plan.
I am the clown?, it doesn't work like that you can't just click your fingers and Clingan signs a contract extension. This isn't Football manager. Clingan is obviously holding out for more money or a more attractive club as he has been offered a new contract it was stated at the start of the season. You seem to be under the impression you can just click you fingers and get a player in. We are not an attractive club for potential players as we won't pay high wages/don't have any realistic hope for promotion/off the field problems. Even if we were an attractive club for for players to join we all know SISU wouldn't stump the cash to sign the player.
But yea you are right Thorn who has only been manager for less than a year is too blame for all the above problems. Lets sack him and get in another manager (who will be poor or inexperienced again as SISU will get the cheap option) who will face exactly the same problems as Thorn.
I honestly don't understand where you are coming from, you want to get rid of our poorer players even though they won't be replaced thus weakening our squad even further and mean we probably have to use more academy players than what we are already using.
DazzleTommyDazzle
Well-Known Member
I'd love to think that this comment was ironic, but sadly......
This is the guy who was our scout. This was the guy who found Westwood, Dann, Fox, Gunna etc. As Everton's scout he found Arteta.
And he "doesn't have a clue what makes a good player".
Give me strength.............
Marty
Well-Known Member
keep making assumations, at no point have I said that we can click our fingers and get players to sign, the only reason bell & baker have signed it because they are not good enough to sign for anybody else. We shouldn't be keeping players only because we can't find someone else to, promote from the youth teams if we have to, i gurantee they would be better then those to jokers. Sisu have been responable for making dreadful manager choices in Boothyroyd & Coleman, I have been happy with Thorn, but if Sisu are willing to back or he doesn't have the influence in the game to attract better players then get rid and bring in someone who will.
I wonder what the next contract extension will be, Hussey signs 10 year deal, Platt offered 4 year extension, these players are simply not good enough, and should be shown the door as soon as possible. the fact that they have been offered deals, stinks of lack of ambition. this club has no future with Bell & Baker, and if you think we do then who ever you are, you are a deluded fool, it pains me to see players like Richard Shaw given hero status while true greats like Dion Dublin are just pushed aside and labeled scum as he joined Villa.
My stance is that I want my club to succed, simple as that, this club will not achieve anything will Bell and Baker.
Marty
Well-Known Member
He found Arteta??? I heard of him when he was in his teens, he was hardly picked out of obscurity, Westwood again, League one best keeper by a mile, hardly ground breaking deal was it, same with Dann & Fox, Kudos for Gunnarsson, but what excatly has he done for the past 2 seasons. He also scouted players like Baker, O'Halloran, Bell.
Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
Bell had a really good game tonight. He was pretty good on Saturday too. He is most definitely an asset IMO, and I'm happy enough that the manager agrees. Hussey will be a Premiership full-back-he has inconsistencies, but both tonight and Saturday he has also made massive positive contributions.. Platt was entirely an Aidy signing. O'Halloran was a cheapo bargain who had the ability and potential but unfortunately was crippled by injury.
He was also aware of the potential of Henderson and Carroll before pretty much everyone else.
He was also aware of the potential of Henderson and Carroll before pretty much everyone else.
SkyBlue_Bear83
Well-Known Member
I want to make some points clear
- I do not think either Baker or Bell are great players and we can't realistically get out of this leave with players like them as first teamers.
- I am also not stupid enough though to get suggest to get rid of them at this moment in time as we already have a poor squad lacking in depth
-If they were to go they would be replaced by nobody or worse players who we have to pay transfer fee's, signing on fee's and similar wages wasting a lot of money the club do not have. What does this achieve?
- Thorn is not the reason we can't attract better player (which is your main argument to get rid) time and time again footballers have been shown to be greedy people and money is ultimately what attracts player to a club for the majority of footballers. Any manager that would replace Thorn would have the same problems attracting players.
That doesn't mean I am happy that the best we can do is players like Baker and Bell but I do not blame it on the manager.
You said "You could let Baker, Bell & McSheffrey see our their contracts, bring in 1 solid decent midfielder + clingan extension"
Letting these players go does not mean we would sign a solid midfielder and Clingan extension, you wrote the sentence as if it was a formality that is what I meant by the "click of the finger" comment.
The reality of it is if we let these players go we would probably sign one midfielder who is worse than the players let go costing the club money in transfer fee's and signing on fee's and agent fee's and Clingan would more than likely still leave. So all you would achieve is weakening the squad, let 4 players go for free and spend money on worse players.
Marty
Well-Known Member
Well thats fair enough but I don't agree with your opinion. Also, I'm very sure that Hendo & Carroll would of been on the radar of many other clubs.
Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
OK but we were the club with options to sign them for relatively peanuts. And I don't agree with any of your stated opinions
DazzleTommyDazzle
Well-Known Member
Well impressive. You'd heard of Arteta. I've got Sky Sports so I've heard of most players in Europe...........
"Same with Dann & Fox". I presume this means that "everyone" knew they were a sure bet??? Isn't hindsight wonderful. But as in your case it certainly wasn't hindsight, who would be the three "obvious" players that we should sign - who will go on to be signed by Premiership clubs??
Marty
Well-Known Member
I genuinely can't see how we could pick up worse players then Bell or Baker for similar money, Agents will have their hand in the pots with contract extensions, like they do with transfer dealings, so far this season, between them they have performed for about 90 mins, it's simply not good enough for 'expierenced pros' and they need to be shown the door not offered contract extensions. it sends out all the wrong signals.
Btw, i'm not serious about getting rid of Thorn (i'm actually fairly happy with him so far), just saying that by giving extensions to bell and baker shows a huge lack of ambition and after each match, no matter how bad they are, he usually singals them out for praise when it isn't warranted. It's almost like hes trying to hide their pathetic performances by telling us how great they are. It's almost like he doesn't know what a good footballer is, If he is unable to attract better players as he has little influence in the game, then he does need to leave for a more influenctal manager who will give us a better chance to stay up. I didn't explain myself well at all in the original post.
Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
Or it could be that he's a better judge of a footballer than you-or any of us. Which is bloody obvious when you stop to think about it...maybe you're wrong?
Marty
Well-Known Member
Sorry what??? You made out that Thorn was a great scout as he recommended that Everton signed him. Arteta was a well know name in europe at that time in his career already. so it was hardly like he discovered him.
Dann & Fox were big names in league one with great performances so again I don't understand what you're getting at. I never once they said they were a sure bet, nothing ever is, You were making out Thorn was some sort of great scout as he recommended players that were well known and performing well in their divisions. Like i said fair play on Gunnarsson but scouts are paid to find the next generation of stars. it's no great surpise that these players were picked up.
Marty
Well-Known Member
At what point did i say that i was a better judge of footballer?????
Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
Well you don't rate Bell and Baker. AT obviously does. If you concede that he's a better judge than you..then your opinions may be at fault perhaps, no?
SkyBlue_Bear83
Well-Known Member
No I don't think you did explain yourself well, in your OP you said "I seriously think Thorn needs to go" now you say "I'm not serious about getting rid of Thorn" sort of contradicting statements, and yea I forgot there will still probably be signing on fee's and agent fee's in contract renewals but we would still be paying transfer fee's and letting players leave for free for similar ability players.
I still disagree with your points though
1)If Thorn did get the chop he would not be replaced by an "influential manager" he would be replaced by someone with similar experience and position in the game as him
2)Even if an influential manager he would face the same problems with the board. Footballers are motivated/attracted to clubs by money and we have none.
It is a lack of ambition from the board and owners.
I still disagree with your points though
1)If Thorn did get the chop he would not be replaced by an "influential manager" he would be replaced by someone with similar experience and position in the game as him
2)Even if an influential manager he would face the same problems with the board. Footballers are motivated/attracted to clubs by money and we have none.
It is a lack of ambition from the board and owners.
DazzleTommyDazzle
Well-Known Member
Sorry if it was tricky to understand.
Let's go back to your post that started it. You said - apologies for the paraphrase - that AT can't spot a player. I pointed out a number of his good (some would say very good, some would say exceptional signings). You then appeared to dismiss these as being fairly obvious ones - my words not yours, but that seemed to be your clear meaning.
There are many players that perform well in L1 and L2. Few go on to the Premiership. Westie, Dann and Fox (via Celtic) all went to the Premiership.
I think that's quite impressive. You obviously don't.
As you find it so easy to spot these players, I then asked you for your top 3 (I'm sure you have many more) who we could sign from the lower leagues and be sure that we could sell on to the Premiership.
Hope that clears it up.