Can we afford to not change coach and manager before Christmas? (5 Viewers)

[Paxman II]

We played well on Saturday but scored just the one goal and leaked two. It's time we found the net more often as our defence will continue to falter as it's just not settled. We must start winning games we play well in and winning when we don't play well. It must happen quickly. The table will not lie and a glance at that now tells a story regardless of the performance Saturday.
Cardiff are another tough team for us at this moment so another defeat no matter how it happens, be it a cruel deflection or whatever and I think confidence will drain.
I worry who will score us goals to win a match? Why is Cody not at least a super sub when we need goals? It's clear Platt or Juke will never become great regular scorers (I remember Leon Best could be accused the same) but we have Cody who's game is supposedly about goal poaching.
Then the energy levels keep disappearing from some in the last 10/15 minutes...why?
We need a player to galvanise the side the way Wise did before. Everything and I mean everything should be done to ensure we get that player. Maybe carsley really should scrub off his boots and get alongside our youngsters?

 

---

[shmmeee]

We played well on Saturday but scored just the one goal and leaked two. It's time we found the net more often as our defence will continue to falter as it's just not settled. We must start winning games we play well in and winning when we don't play well. It must happen quickly. The table will not lie and a glance at that now tells a story regardless of the performance Saturday.
Cardiff are another tough team for us at this moment so another defeat no matter how it happens, be it a cruel deflection or whatever and I think confidence will drain.
I worry who will score us goals to win a match? Why is Cody not at least a super sub when we need goals? It's clear Platt or Juke will never become great regular scorers (I remember Leon Best could be accused the same) but we have Cody who's game is supposedly about goal poaching.
Then the energy levels keep disappearing from some in the last 10/15 minutes...why?
We need a player to galvanise the side the way Wise did before. Everything and I mean everything should be done to ensure we get that player. Maybe carsley really should scrub off his boots and get alongside our youngsters?

I think 1 in 3 is a decent goal scorer to be fair. And with my tongue firmly in cheek I'll point out Platt now has 2 in 3 starts.

Not sure what Cody has done to suggest he'd do better than either of them.

The problem isn't the strikers it's all the other positions not chipping in.

 

[stupot07]

We played well on Saturday but scored just the one goal and leaked two. It's time we found the net more often as our defence will continue to falter as it's just not settled. We must start winning games we play well in and winning when we don't play well. It must happen quickly. The table will not lie and a glance at that now tells a story regardless of the performance Saturday.
Cardiff are another tough team for us at this moment so another defeat no matter how it happens, be it a cruel deflection or whatever and I think confidence will drain.
I worry who will score us goals to win a match? Why is Cody not at least a super sub when we need goals? It's clear Platt or Juke will never become great regular scorers (I remember Leon Best could be accused the same) but we have Cody who's game is supposedly about goal poaching.
Then the energy levels keep disappearing from some in the last 10/15 minutes...why?
We need a player to galvanise the side the way Wise did before. Everything and I mean everything should be done to ensure we get that player. Maybe carsley really should scrub off his boots and get alongside our youngsters?

I didn't see anything on Saturday to suggest the side weren't 'galvanised' they all worked extremely hard for each other. I agree with the previously poster it's the lack of goals from the rest of the team that are the issue, especially when you consider that we have bigi and Thomas in the midfield. I also worry about who will score the goals we need, however I have seen nothing from Cody to suggest he's the man. I can see why thorn didn't put him on, he doesn't add anything to team play and build up and we were still creating chances and opening west ham up. Subbing Cody on could have disrupted our flow and stopped our momentum - we've seen it before.

If goals are the problem then carsley isn't going to be the solution - can't we just accept that we were unlucky in this instance and lost to a far superior players?

Why do we tire? Well I think you can point to the fact that we are playing three teenagers who have only recently turned 18 and aren't physically or physiologically fully developed - you can see that the youngsters flag first. Also a number of players have had injuries - cranie had missed the last 6 games, Sheff has been on and off the treatment table this season, etc. We have yet to be able to put the same side our for a decent run of 5-6 games - this IMO would make a big difference to the side.

 

[LeamingtonBootBoy]

We tire because we continually chase the game....the defence is overworked because the midfield don't retain the ball.

 

[Otis]

We also tire because;

1. We are playing kids who are not used to 90minute games of such intensity

2. The squad's too small and we cannot afford to drop tired players. I'm sure we will see the effects tomorrow night against Cardiff.

 

[Tankie]

Good Morning Paxo!

I'm usually first in line calling for the managers head when things get critical, but there is a world of difference between the current manager and the two previous ones.

Although our league position contradicts my opinion, there can be no doubt that the quality and entertainment value of our style of play, blows away the performances of the last two managers, Coleman was too defensive, and Bothroyd, too crude, and unsophisticated, with his hoof ball mind set.

Of cause, its all about points, I realise this as much as anyone, but also think it would be a big mistake to get rid of Andy Thorn, who's beliefs in the way the game should be played are correct, and anyone who was at the game on saturday, could surely not criticise the effort, and desire to play with some style that our boys exhibited.

Its all too easy to hide behind the excuses..Bad Luck..poor referee, but we had both of these on Saturday, the first Hammers goal, should not have stood, following a foul on one of our players,and the second was an unfortunate schoolboy error, that happens from time to time.

It is my opinion, for what its worth! that in the difficult circumstances, that Andy Thorn, has had to wortk in both he and the players, have responded with credibility,and respect for the Shirt.

Many will look at my post, then the league table, and shake their head in disbelief,But was there really any difference in class and performance of the two teams at the Ricoh on Saturday afternoon.

The situation is dire, there can be no doubt about it, but such was the level of effort against high flying Hammers, that I think, we have the ability and desire to pull ourselves clear of the drop zone, Hopefully it will be with Andy Thorn at the helm.
Medication time...bye Ladies.xxxxx Tankie

 

[oldskyblue58]

What was different on Saturday is that we actually played on the front foot from the first minute - that is a change and you would have to credit AT with that. Why it has taken so long to get to that is another debate however. It did prove that given the right pattern of play, the right impetus then we can compete with ther teams given the players we have. But can we consistently ?

You can argue that AT left the substitutions late but what really turned the game was the WHU ability to bring on premiership class strikers from the bench. In the first half both teams played quite narrow and that suited us but when Cole and Piquionne came on their movement and the ability to stretch the play had us under pressure. AT needed to freshen the legs at the back sooner but the game was taken away from him by WHU, and bad luck.

Can we afford to change the manager ? No we cant afford to literally. It is probably a little late as we are now needing to win 3 on the trot to get out of the relegation places. It is no good changing unless there is funds to back the change - there are not. We play some attractive football but we lack the cutting edge in the team. Other teams score from all positions we rely on the front two - it has been a problem for seasons!

My honest opinion is that AT hasnt got what it takes to make this squad successful, it will play decent football but it will fail. It isnt all his fault because there has been precious little financial support but he is part of the problem. As the man said himself this is a results business ............ we are not getting them. He is however who we have with no realistic possibilty of affording a change so we need to back him the best we feel we can

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

We were on the front foot from the off against Burnley, too. First half of that game was better than Saturday IMO.

 

[skybluebeduff]

In the past 10+ years since we've been in the Championship we've never had a striker who's worthy off this league in my opinion......:facepalm: Yet I liked Mifsud so what do I know...:facepalm:

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

What made you change your tune paxman?
To the person who said Carsley wouldn't help with goalscoring, whilst I agree with that I also think if we had a Carsley type player this year we would not have thrown away 15 points from winning positions, the role he played in our good run last year was really underrated I feel. His on field coaching was vital in us seeing out games last season under Boothroyd.
It is obvious the team have serious mental issues with injury time and going 1-0 up, it is getting to the point where you don't want us to score unless it is in the last 10 minutes as you know the other team will win. If the loan player is to be Brown maybe he will play a similar role to Carsley in helping us to see out games.

 

[Paxman II]

Hang on guys...You really must read what is said. I didn't say a strikers rate of 1 in 3 I was talking about the teams rate when needing to win at least 1 in 3 to survive relegation mention by the original poster!
Secondly I never said Carsley was the answer to goals....I said he could brush his boots off (togu in cheek) as he could be the answer to the team as he would bring stability to the middle of the park.
As for AT I never said sack him either so there is no change of tune from me. I said the table never lies and i was eluding to the fact that anyone with a football club desperate to survive will look at Thorn's tenure, examine the results this season and given the players and some of the good performances we are capable of then realise he is not able to get them winning. There is only one conclusion. I think another manager of experience could get more wins frankly. As with West ham we still couldn't win? We can't afford to wait too long is what I'm saying.
OSB I agree about finances but there are experienced managers out there that would manage for what Thorn's on and prove themselves in order to get a better contract later. How would anyone know a Coppell or such would not do that?
A game is 90 minutes and if we have bad luck so what...we need to score the other end when we are dominating. I look at the names of Platt and the Duke and I can only draw the conclusion we will not score enough to win games.
I hope we get Brown, I hope we play Cody who has not been given 3 hours of footy yet.
I'm just being realistic. Teams go down playing well without getting points. Looking pretty is what you do when you are safe not when you need points. The young lads should be super fit and I don't buy this excuse of 'pressure' games. If I were 17 in the side the last thing I would think about is pressure...I'd run my socks off. Mentally that's different as a youngsters concentration can waiver but that's all about coaching ability. Again I've touched on that before.
the excuses are getting fewer and fewer now...we need to convert chances, stop mistakes at the back and not give the ball away cheaply for 90+ minutes. I think Cardiff is a turning point. Win and we could react positively and go on and survive. Lose and I think we will have such low confidence the players will no longer beleive and there will be exodus in January from the likes of Clingan and we will be relegated.
It's not just investment/SISU. Saturday proved we are capable of getting wins against lesser opposition surely?...yet here we are with just two so far?

 

[Paxman II]

data base error? This boards messed up!

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Hang on guys...You really must read what is said. I didn't say a strikers rate of 1 in 3 I was talking about the teams rate when needing to win at least 1 in 3 to survive relegation mention by the original poster!
Secondly I never said Carsley was the answer to goals....I said he could brush his boots off (togu in cheek) as he could be the answer to the team as he would bring stability to the middle of the park.
As for AT I never said sack him either so there is no change of tune from me. I said the table never lies and i was eluding to the fact that anyone with a football club desperate to survive will look at Thorn's tenure, examine the results this season and given the players and some of the good performances we are capable of then realise he is not able to get them winning. There is only one conclusion. I think another manager of experience could get more wins frankly. As with West ham we still couldn't win? We can't afford to wait too long is what I'm saying.
OSB I agree about finances but there are experienced managers out there that would manage for what Thorn's on and prove themselves in order to get a better contract later. How would anyone know a Coppell or such would not do that?
A game is 90 minutes and if we have bad luck so what...we need to score the other end when we are dominating. I look at the names of Platt and the Duke and I can only draw the conclusion we will not score enough to win games.
I hope we get Brown, I hope we play Cody who has not been given 3 hours of footy yet.
I'm just being realistic. Teams go down playing well without getting points. Looking pretty is what you do when you are safe not when you need points. The young lads should be super fit and I don't buy this excuse of 'pressure' games. If I were 17 in the side the last thing I would think about is pressure...I'd run my socks off. Mentally that's different as a youngsters concentration can waiver but that's all about coaching ability. Again I've touched on that before.
the excuses are getting fewer and fewer now...we need to convert chances, stop mistakes at the back and not give the ball away cheaply for 90+ minutes. I think Cardiff is a turning point. Win and we could react positively and go on and survive. Lose and I think we will have such low confidence the players will no longer beleive and there will be exodus in January from the likes of Clingan and we will be relegated.
It's not just investment/SISU. Saturday proved we are capable of getting wins against lesser opposition surely?...yet here we are with just two so far?

Fair enough but I think the thread title contradicts that statement.
If we perform well for a consistent period of time I am confident results will follow. The team is obviously mentally fragile and a Carsley type figure is exactly what we need to help us see games through.

 

[johnniericoh]

I still say AT is too cautious in the tactics of his centre midfield players with an obvious tendency to minimise risk by playing the ball sideways and backwards when a forward/offensive option should be exploited.

There are just no goals being scored (or created) by our midfield players - should be a major source of goal scoring as in most other teams.

As previous posters suggest this is not a now problem it has been with us for years - however I struggle to find a free scoring ex CCFC player of yesteryear that could solve the problem today - some of the following come to mind.

Michael Doyle 20 goals in 265 games = 3 goals per 46 game season
Gary McAllister 30/174 = 5 per season
Stephen Hughes 8/144 = 3 per season
Mustapha Hadji 12/62 = 9 per season
Michael Gynn 32/241 = 6 per season
Barry Powell 27/164 = 7 per season

Even the legendary Ronnie Farmer only scored 52/311 = 8 per season

It is so obvious we haven't/never had centre mid players capable of scoring double figures in a season. Having said that even the paltry goal scoring of the above would be welcome to ease today's plight.

So I believe we should not change the manager but only on the proviso that he gives full licence to the centre mids to be more adventurous in the final third

Simples

PUSB

 

[stupot07]

I hope we get Brown, I hope we play Cody who has not been given 3 hours of footy yet.

FYI Cody has made 7 starts and 1 sub appearance and has actually played 567 minutes of football, which is 9.45 hrs and has scored 1 goal.