Can people see the impact of SISU's decision (1 Viewer)

[dongonzalos]

Current team........ Team without SISU's melt down last season (never mind the previous ones)
Murphy.......................... .Westwood
Christie........................... Keogh
keogh .............................Turner
Cranie ............................Cranie
Hussey............................Hussey
Deegan.......................... Gunnar
Norwood......................... Deegan
Baker .......................... ..Nimely
Mcsheff........................ ..Mcshef
Nimely ............................Juke
Platt ..............................King

Dunn ........................... Dunn
Bell ............................. Bell
Thomas ........................ Baker
Bigi ............................. Platt
Clarke........................... Chrisite
Ruffles......................... Norwood

Mostly Injured
Clingan
Wood
Mcdonald
Herman

Unfit/Fat/lazy/Bad attitude
Eastwood

That is the decision Thorn has had to make when he looks at his bench and he wants to shake things up or change things during a game. What the bloody hell do we expect him to do.

 

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[Nick]

Can he not change formation or the shape of the team without making subs?

Can he not change strategy without making subs?

If he can't do anything, why does he always make the changes anyway but just too late? Why bother if they are going to be so ineffective?

 

[dongonzalos]

You see I understand the need to cut our cloth accordingly. I could understand it if the policy was sell our top players and replace them with suitable younger cheaper players with potential. i.e. if you sold Gunnar and bought Deegan as I cheaper alternative with great potential. But to sell or relaease them and not bring in replacements forcing kids into the squad whether they are ready or not. I see that as a direct decision to flog what is worth anything in the club before going into admin or handing the club to someone else. They are assigning us to relegation. If the takeover does not happen before the summur watch who they flog then aswell. People talking about us having a good team for div 1. It will be a team without Murphy, Keogh, Cranie, Christie, Wood, Clingan, Deegan, Nimely, Noorwood. Scarey though really

 

[Nick]

Didn't answer the question did it?

Obviously if we had a team of superstars on the bench Thorn could make changes with more impact, but what stops him from changing formation, tactics and other stuff? Why does Thorn make the changes people suggest early on in games when it is too late? (ie Blackpool and Forest to name 2)

 

[ccfcway]

Nimely, McSheff, Juke and King

bit defensive isnt it ?

 

[dongonzalos]

Nimely, McSheff, Juke and King

bit defensive isnt it ?

Ha ha, it can be with Deegs and Gunner chomping away at the ankles, Nimely and sheff on the wings.

 

[dongonzalos]

Didn't answer the question did it?

Obviously if we had a team of superstars on the bench Thorn could make changes with more impact, but what stops him from changing formation, tactics and other stuff? Why does Thorn make the changes people suggest early on in games when it is too late? (ie Blackpool and Forest to name 2)

Sorry Nick I had not seen your reply yet when I posted the last one. I think when you have a weaker team of players compared to the opposition. The only way of getting a win is if your players over perform. Ours cant do that every match. Then the only way of getting a draw is to kick the hell out of them and play the long ball. However that does not always work as was shown with AB. If you fall a goal behind to Forest then to change from attacking to defensive football you will probably lose 1 nil instead of 2. I think you are better off chancing trying to get the equilizer. (which in hindsight didnt work) That then leaves you to looking to the bench to make a change bring on a impact player. Best way to influence games and make changes. If you have a bench that has normal championship players (not superstars) as with the second team above you can do this. If you have a team of kids forced into the squad whether they are ready or not it is unlikely you can do this. Also I hardly class the bench mentioned above as a bench of superstars. It is what a average championship bench should look like and it is a bench that would allow Thorn to bring players on in an attempt to change things and make an impact unlike Bench 1. That is no dissrespect to those players

 

[Grendel]

I don't know what this is supposed to prove. Of the players who left Westwood was replaced, gunnarson has in effect by deegan, turner had never kicked a ball for thorn and anyway we have centre back cover.

Some of the sisu 8 who went in the summer are not even mentioned here so even you must consider them irrelevant. So the only one really is king. Now king was a player well out of our budget in normal circumstance. Truth is he only joined due to friendship with boothroyd and would only have considered remaining if he had stayed.

Ultimately king was replaced by McDonald. The fact that he was hopelessly lacking in fitness surely was known by thorn given the fact he is "scout of the century". Clearly this was an error by thorn. He needed a fully fit player but according to him Cody was the one (reference to his goal tally maybe). Other than the forwards there is little difference to the squads you picked.

As to Christie I have stated repeatedly thorn has made him first choice full back as he chose keogh as centre half.

Also there have been occasions when bigi or Thomas have been chosen on merit ahead of baker and bell. I think you believe these 2 are further prodigees off the thorn scouting conveyor belt yet he prefers academy players whose development he has had nothing to do with.

Thanks for you're thread - very thought provoking.

 

[Jack Griffin]

I don't think it does any good to dwell on what was, you have to get on with it whatever.

 

[oldskyblue58]

Why were SISU in melt down ? There is no evidence that suggests that the funds SISU manage are in trouble. It is SBS&L that is in trouble. All the SISU funds said is we are drawing a line in how much we will lend the group and dependent on the finances being dealt with - pretty much like a bank but without the interest and charges

Many of those players decided their future was more profitable elsewhere - there are two sides at least to every story, clearly certain players let their contract expire knowing they could benefit personally from doing so. Not saying they shouldnt but them not re signing isnt necessarily SISU's fault.

If a player under contract doesnt want to go how exactly do you sell them ?

Had we retained the players just how would we have paid the wages that they are currently on - given thats their market value. The whole damn point is we can not afford them and certainly cannot finance losses of 7 , 8 or 9 million per year. Nothing to borrow against for a statrt and if we did it only increases the loss because of finance charges.

There is absolutely no point in looking back at if we had kept him or him - we didnt and the decisions then were not all SISU's.

Reality is that for 10 years we accumulated losses and debt and that could not continue. The reality is that any new owner if there is one will also have to address the issues of losses and debt - they might be able to do it over a longer period but they still have to deal with it. The only good thing for a new owner is perhaps that the greater pain will have been under SISU - but the will still be pain

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Didn't answer the question did it?

Obviously if we had a team of superstars on the bench Thorn could make changes with more impact, but what stops him from changing formation, tactics and other stuff? Why does Thorn make the changes people suggest early on in games when it is too late? (ie Blackpool and Forest to name 2)

The answer, Nick, is pretty obvious. It's because Thorn is a novice manager far from the finished article-a few people here need to acknowledge that SISU are not 100% culpable for the dire season we're experiencing.

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

Many of those players decided their future was more profitable elsewhere - there are two sides at least to every story, clearly certain players let their contract expire knowing they could benefit personally from doing so. Not saying they shouldnt but them not re signing isnt necessarily SISU's fault.

No, but their hardball approach has seen a long list of players enter the final year of their contract (making selling them the only smart move to avoid making a loss on a player). In particular, they pretty much abused the fact that we got a couple of guys on cheap, lower-division wages because they were relatively unkown at the time. These players-notably Tabb (not a SISU signing but promised a new deal that never came under them), Aron (best player in his first season on peanuts but refused a new deal until it was too late), and Westwood (constantly superb but never offered the new deal that Ranson claimed he had been until it was too late) may have considered signing if offered deals that reflected their performance, rather than being kept at the bottom of the wage structure.

Sure it costs, but the lesson is always to capitalise on player value, not to make a loss on what you originally signed them for because you refused to pay them what they are worth. At the very least, offering Westwood & Aron improved deals 12 months into their stay here would have meant we'd have got another year out of them: and in Aron's case, maybe he'd have actually carrying putting in the effort of his first season into his second and third?

 

[oldskyblue58]

thinking with just my head not my heart for a second, and with a lot of hindsight.....

SISU should have been hard nosed from the start, when they had folk on their side. It would have meant shipping players out cutting costs & suffering on the pitch for a while. They let their assessment of individuals over rule their hard nosed business sense. That would have meant low wage deals but we would have been through the worst now, might even have sold some of the players we let run down contracts which would of helped finances overall. There was lack of leadership and common purpose all round. That was the real opportunity to get this club right instead of the slash and burn knee jerk stuff we have now.

Of course my heart says differently and wanted the club to fund getting better players in . Somewhere in the middle of the two was the common ground most could have agrred with and left us in the Championship

I think the wages/contract policy has been inconsistent all the way through. Players like Gunnarsson & Westwood were undervalued but over the 5 years of being here others have been more than adequately rewarded and for some we have taken risks for and paid them handsomely. Inconsistent and ill conceived

Think from top to bottom and from day one it is easy see mistakes were made - but thats by lots of people of which SISU are the most notable

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

One of the few definitive things Ranson said as chairman was 'I promise you this-Keiren Westwood will not be leaving this club for nothing'-lo and behold, Ranson walks in the Spring and Westwood hops off to Sunderland for £0. To think what Westwood and King would fetch whilst on good contracts puts into perspective that SISU have shot themselves in the foot on many an occasion-they're reminiscent of blokes in the bookies who go wild on the roulette machines. Feeding in a grand, losing a couple of hundred, but refusing to accept defeat till all the cash is gone-the gamble that SISU took with CCFC has left them in a similar position.

 

[Sick Boy]

One of the few definitive things Ranson said as chairman was 'I promise you this-Keiren Westwood will not be leaving this club for nothing'-lo and behold, Ranson walks in the Spring and Westwood hops off to Sunderland for £0. To think what Westwood and King would fetch whilst on good contracts puts into perspective that SISU have shot themselves in the foot on many an occasion-they're reminiscent of blokes in the bookies who go wild on the roulette machines. Feeding in a grand, losing a couple of hundred, but refusing to accept defeat till all the cash is gone-the gamble that SISU took with CCFC has left them in a similar position.

At the time many people were saying what a great job Ranson was doing in making sure we didn't bow to player pressure.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

At the time many people were saying what a great job Ranson was doing in making sure we didn't bow to player pressure.

I think he was right not to budge on the likes of Gunnar-players like him are not as hard to replace as top quality keepers like Westwood. If the vision for the club was to buy rising stars and sell at a profit-they semi succeeded with the fees we got for Fox and Dann. The serious problem was that the large profits we enjoyed on players like them were not reinvested into the playing side of things-they went into repaying the SISU investors. I don't blame RR for looking to cover his own back, but contractual negotiations weren't really his forte.

 

[Grendel]

One of the few definitive things Ranson said as chairman was 'I promise you this-Keiren Westwood will not be leaving this club for nothing'-lo and behold, Ranson walks in the Spring and Westwood hops off to Sunderland for £0. To think what Westwood and King would fetch whilst on good contracts puts into perspective that SISU have shot themselves in the foot on many an occasion-they're reminiscent of blokes in the bookies who go wild on the roulette machines. Feeding in a grand, losing a couple of hundred, but refusing to accept defeat till all the cash is gone-the gamble that SISU took with CCFC has left them in a similar position.

Players refuse to sign contracts can leave and no club can then do anything about it. Anyway according to "honest" Ray one of the things he always assured us was Coventry are "debt free". So everything's fine we are probably in profit now.

 

[Sick Boy]

Anyway according to "honest" Ray one of the things he always assured us was Coventry are "debt free". So everything's fine we are probably in profit now.

Good old Ray!

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Players refuse to sign contracts can leave and no club can then do anything about it. Anyway according to "honest" Ray one of the things he always assured us was Coventry are "debt free". So everything's fine we are probably in profit now.

Except that this club seems to be inherently worse at contract negotiations than most of its competitors.