Burglar Stabbed to Death (8 Viewers)
- Thread starter Nick
- Start date
surely the law has to change? if you made it that if you break into someones house you are not protected anymore, then the scum would think twice wouldn't they!!
What you meant to do, shout "get out you scoundrel"............i'm glad he copped it, scumbag. If you have ever been burgaled then you will know how bad it makes you feel.
What you meant to do, shout "get out you scoundrel"............i'm glad he copped it, scumbag. If you have ever been burgaled then you will know how bad it makes you feel.
Serves 'em right. You live by the sword, you die by the sword - literally.
I bet it wasn't a case of the house owner sneaking up on him and stabbing him in the back. My guess is the burglars realised they'd been rumbled, had a go at the owner and got stabbed in the process in self-defence by the house owner. Case closed.
I bet it wasn't a case of the house owner sneaking up on him and stabbing him in the back. My guess is the burglars realised they'd been rumbled, had a go at the owner and got stabbed in the process in self-defence by the house owner. Case closed.
rob9872
Well-Known Member
I wish that it was allowed, but think about the consequences on both sides not just the homeowner. If you allow them to get away with killing someone (which is probably beyond reasonable force), then it will make burglars more likely to be armed in future for fear of reprisals. If they are carrying, then it stands to reason that they are more likely to use and harm when confronted.
I realise that it's a bit chicken and egg, but a difficult issue to be black and white on despite high emotions.
It's a bit like those campaigning for longer rape sentences comparable with life sentences. Rape is a horific crime and I would be outraged if it happened to someone close to me, but similarly you would find tha if rape and murder carried the same sentence, then more rape victims would be killed because the attacker is then less likely to be identified. Certainly a difficult balancing act that I don't envy.
I realise that it's a bit chicken and egg, but a difficult issue to be black and white on despite high emotions.
It's a bit like those campaigning for longer rape sentences comparable with life sentences. Rape is a horific crime and I would be outraged if it happened to someone close to me, but similarly you would find tha if rape and murder carried the same sentence, then more rape victims would be killed because the attacker is then less likely to be identified. Certainly a difficult balancing act that I don't envy.
Ernie Machin
New Member
Spot on analysis, Rob. There is no easy solution to this, they've been trying to get the right balance for years. Do we really want a system like the one in the US where (virtually) everyone is tooled up on the pretence of personal security? We've been through this with the Tony Martin case, we shouldn't make heroes out of people that kill people in self defence. Hard to have much sympathy for the burglar, but death is death.
Ernie Machin
New Member
In most cases, the judge would take this kind of thing into account. If your life was under threat, it's unlikely that you would do time.
rob9872
Well-Known Member
Exactly right.
I remember the farmer (Tony Martin?) who killed that lad with his gun at a remote location. It was licenced he had been under threat and there was outrage but the reason that he was prosecuted was not necessarily for the crime, but for the fact that he shot him in the back as he was leaving.
I remember the farmer (Tony Martin?) who killed that lad with his gun at a remote location. It was licenced he had been under threat and there was outrage but the reason that he was prosecuted was not necessarily for the crime, but for the fact that he shot him in the back as he was leaving.
Marty
Well-Known Member
If someone comes into your home then I feel you should have the right to defend yourself and your family by any means necessary if this involes killing someone then so be it, they put themselves in that situation and you into a situation where you have to act to defend yourself. You don't know who they are or what they are willing to do.
This person is scum, is probaly one of those that sits around all day, never worked in his life, pollutes the gene pool and I suspect the world is a slightly better place he isn't here any more.
In a state in America, if someone breaks into your house and you kill them, then you actually get rewarded, 5 grand i think it is
Yes the farmer was Tony Martin, got 4 years iirc?
This person is scum, is probaly one of those that sits around all day, never worked in his life, pollutes the gene pool and I suspect the world is a slightly better place he isn't here any more.
In a state in America, if someone breaks into your house and you kill them, then you actually get rewarded, 5 grand i think it is
Yes the farmer was Tony Martin, got 4 years iirc?
They've just done society a favour. One less career criminal in a prison cell we'll have to pay for for the next 30-40 years (mind you I bet we have to pay for the funeral, court case, damages, etc).
I agree that to attempt to fatally injure a burglar by excessive force (stabbing repeatedly or in vital areas, shooting, etc) is uneccessary, however if it was, as I presume, self-defence then there should be no, or little punishment (difficult to prove I know).
I agree that to attempt to fatally injure a burglar by excessive force (stabbing repeatedly or in vital areas, shooting, etc) is uneccessary, however if it was, as I presume, self-defence then there should be no, or little punishment (difficult to prove I know).
TheRoyalScam
Well-Known Member
Some very good posts from rob9872 here, which I'm sure many of us would agree with. If the householder grabbed the nearest weapon [a kitchen knife?] and used it to protect himself, then a 'murder charge' simply wouldn't stick. There's no pre-meditation, and any conflict would have been initiated by the four balaclava-wearing burglars. It only takes one cut in the right place to kill someone, and it appears this is what's happened. For me a key fact is that the householder dialled 999 to report the incident, while the three surviving burglars fled the scene.
Not necessarily, if the knife's been in the dishwasher it'll still be nice and toasty.
rob9872
Well-Known Member
Great story in america where some dozy burglar got trapped in an electrnic garage and had to survive on catfood and pepsi for a week until the owners came back from holiday. He was aprehended and charged by police, but his lawyers successfully argued that the garage door opener was faulty and his client had been subjected to such an ordeal. He was awarded $500k in damages.
Houchens Head
Fairly well known member from Malvern
I suppose the murder "victims" family will be calling on their bloody son's "Human Rights" to be able to burgle houses without his life being threatened! That bloody stupid European law makes me sick!
(I use the tame swear word "bloody", although I felt like typing the F word! but wouldn't due to a recent thread!!)
That bloody stupid European law makes me sick! (I use the tame swear word "bloody", although I felt like typing the F word! but wouldn't due to a recent thread!!)
Ernie Machin
New Member
Let's just say I'm glad that the average Joe on the street doesn't make the laws in this country. We'd been in a tabloid hell for ever.
Nail on the head, a well thought out rational response :claping hands:
The prosecution argued that he meditated his actions by the fact he shot the lad as he was leaving. Martin was jaild but on appeal it was argued that it was dark and he couldnt see which way the fella was facing, also Martin was a man who lived alone in a remote Norfolk farmhouse, they argued that he was shitting blue bricks (as you do) and came out fighting at an inoportune moment as the blokes that raided the gaff were leaving.
He won the appeal however, when he went down was at a time under mad Tony (Blair) that is when uman rights were really all the rage, by the time his appeal wa heard judges were looking at the rights and wrongs of the actual crimes and not just the mamby lefty view that Uman rights are first and formost, what about Tony Martins rights to protect his home and property????
Rant Over ( looked at this case when I did my degree, used to make me fume every time I opened the file).
Ernie Machin
New Member
Mamby lefty? You sound like a smart fella.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...give-Britain-a-dictator-says-Tony-Martin.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...give-Britain-a-dictator-says-Tony-Martin.html
Its an opinion not an IQ test. You may have worked out from my sig what I do and have done for the last 24 years, it tends to make one lean a little to the right of Franco admittedly. Not excusing Martins views BNP wise however as I cannot and will not agree with that bunch of racist lunatics.
Ernie Machin
New Member
Dismissing other people's opinions as 'mamby lefty' isn't really fair though. The Tony Martin case is fascinating - you've got a man who's been robbed several times, police inaction to previous robberies, career criminals going after a soft target, numerous court cases and law suits etc etc. I have no sympathy personally for Fred Barras, but we have to be careful who we hold up as heroes in these cases. We have to get away from this tabloid knee jerk reaction to events and base our laws on rationality and logic, rather than emotion. Abusing the system claiming 'human rights' is where we have a problem, that Brendan Fearon (the guy that survived) tried to milk it for a maximum financial effect.
P.S I served in the Navy and come from a military family. I still don't like discussing issues in such black/white terms. 'Stan' shouldn't be in Aghanistan frankly and why is it footballers pay that we always question? Why not mega rich actors or musicians? It's the anti-working class mantra from the press, that's what.
P.S I served in the Navy and come from a military family. I still don't like discussing issues in such black/white terms. 'Stan' shouldn't be in Aghanistan frankly and why is it footballers pay that we always question? Why not mega rich actors or musicians? It's the anti-working class mantra from the press, that's what.
rob9872
Well-Known Member
Apologies tothe o/p for taking this discussion away from the issue ... but are the BNP racist? Really?
The problem is that the leaders and the history, attracts racists as members and at rally's etc, but they don't realise that all that does is to actually put off disgruntled middle of the road voters like myself, who agree largely with what they stand for but who don't want to waste their vote or be associated with the stigma of them or allow their hidden agenda to get through, in the belief that a little power would make them even more extreme and attract more idiots. If they smartened up their act and changed their name and image, they could become a credible threat.
Everyone has the right to a better life, we are fortunate to have been born here, but if the stance was not for repatronisation of people who have already come here, but to say enough is enough, we are full and we need to sort ourselves out before anyone else unskilled can come, then I think they could attract more support.
Imo some people need to accept that mass immigration is a huge issue regardless of trying to be pc and worrying about who gets upset. There are more than enough problems with crime and unemployment to see us through the next generation without anyone else arriving ... and belive it or not I consider myself as moderate
The problem is that the leaders and the history, attracts racists as members and at rally's etc, but they don't realise that all that does is to actually put off disgruntled middle of the road voters like myself, who agree largely with what they stand for but who don't want to waste their vote or be associated with the stigma of them or allow their hidden agenda to get through, in the belief that a little power would make them even more extreme and attract more idiots. If they smartened up their act and changed their name and image, they could become a credible threat.
Everyone has the right to a better life, we are fortunate to have been born here, but if the stance was not for repatronisation of people who have already come here, but to say enough is enough, we are full and we need to sort ourselves out before anyone else unskilled can come, then I think they could attract more support.
Imo some people need to accept that mass immigration is a huge issue regardless of trying to be pc and worrying about who gets upset. There are more than enough problems with crime and unemployment to see us through the next generation without anyone else arriving ... and belive it or not I consider myself as moderate
Ernie Machin
New Member
Rob, they ARE racist. Truly. But they are one of the few parties that are willing to discuss the issue, which is why they get the protest vote from disillusioned people like your good self. But that doesn't change the fact they are a lunatic fringe who have no idea what they're talking about, the only reason they are "brave" enough to discuss it is that it's their only real policy. They already did change their name and image once (from NF), but they still revert to type, so it's not just an image issue.
UKIP are the other party willing to discuss it, but they too are a one issue party. They're like the BNP for Daily Mail readers.
P.S If they give me £20k to live in Jamaica, I'd do it! Time to go all Black and White Minstrel Show!
UKIP are the other party willing to discuss it, but they too are a one issue party. They're like the BNP for Daily Mail readers.
P.S If they give me £20k to live in Jamaica, I'd do it! Time to go all Black and White Minstrel Show!
rob9872
Well-Known Member
I'm sure parties like UKIP would be ready to have other policies but as they are only harnessing support they need sound-bytes to attract voters and currently don't need any policy as they could say exactly what they like as they have zero chance of being able to implement them. This is the one true benefit imo of something like proprtional represenatation (and I don't mean AV) but people don't want wasted votes. I think if every vote counted, then a lot more people might consider something like UKIP if only to keep the main parties from bull-dozering their own rubbish through each time.
Eg if 10% of the people in every constituency voted UKIP, then they would get zero seats, but that means 10% of the population who are equally entitled for their views to be heard, have no say and they are not represented at all when their 10% share should be worth 60+ seats.
Eg if 10% of the people in every constituency voted UKIP, then they would get zero seats, but that means 10% of the population who are equally entitled for their views to be heard, have no say and they are not represented at all when their 10% share should be worth 60+ seats.
Ernie Machin
New Member
True PR is the only valid voting system - but we'll probably never get it, because the major parties know they'll lose seats to smaller parties and they'll campaign on it saying 'PR will give the BNP seats'. Turkeys voting for Christmas. AV was a disaster, it was an irrelevance, but it now means voting change is off the agenda for years and years.
Off topic much?
Off topic much?
Not actually too far off topic if you think about it, the worm can that is politics has been opened, I personally am facinated by the EDL , I am flabergasted that theere are British aisian members of this group I really cant figure that one out as they have some high profile links with the BNP. Mind you didnt that aisan fella get the BNP constiution changed so he could join????
SORRY o/t NOW
SORRY o/t NOW