build round the fucker (1 Viewer)

[clint van damme]

Taxpayers to foot £630k shop lease surrender

The cabinet member in charge has defended the deal

www.coventrytelegraph.net

 

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[Otis]

I do not understand that at all.

 

[no_loyalty]

Council tax going up a whopping 6% apparently.

 

[chiefdave]

Wouldn't you expect a lease for that length of time covering a city centre property to have a clause in it allowing the council to move them if needed. City centre redevelopment is hardly an unheard of concept.

Also if they're £60K in arrears aren't they in breach? Kick them out!

 

[shmmeee]

It’s a calculation that an improved city centre will bring more than £600k or whatever’s increased business over the next 50 years.

Hard to say until it’s done, though I do think what they did by the peeping Tom clock has worked well so maybe.

More concerned with the pig headed refusal to accept city centres aren’t going back to how they were TBH.

 

[shmmeee]

Wouldn't you expect a lease for that length of time covering a city centre property to have a clause in it allowing the council to move them if needed. City centre redevelopment is hardly an unheard of concept.

Also if they're £60K in arrears aren't they in breach? Kick them out!

Depends on the lease terms. Generally the entire point of a lease is that you can’t just be kicked out. Commercial or residential. EJ would’ve paid for long term security. Remember that generally the council doesn’t sell land, especially not in the city centre, so all leases will be very long and essentially freeholds.

 

[Skybluefaz]

I didn't know Wasps owned that jewellers

 

[NorthernWisdom]

It’s a calculation that an improved city centre will bring more than £600k or whatever’s increased business over the next 50 years.

Hard to say until it’s done, though I do think what they did by the peeping Tom clock has worked well so maybe.

More concerned with the pig headed refusal to accept city centres aren’t going back to how they were TBH.

It'll be back to the original plan, views of the cathedral from the Lower Precinct.

Well... apart from some loons decided to build Cathedral Lanes!

 

[shmmeee]

It'll be back to the original plan, views of the cathedral from the Lower Precinct.

Well... apart from some loons decided to build Cathedral Lanes!

Went into town on Saturday and actually think it’s coming together. Cant help but fee that by the time it does half the shops will have shut mind.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

Went into town on Saturday and actually think it’s coming together. Cant help but fee that by the time it does half the shops will have shut mind.

I know you disagree but hey, I'll still repeat it Really wish they'd taken the opportunity to demolish Cathedral Lanes, and revert to the open views of the cathedral. Stick the restaurant quarter in Spon Street, and encourage independent restaurants to make it vaguely unique to Coventry. Failing that, as you say, we're losing / lost BHS / Debenhams etc, so find an area of the precinct for the restaurants.

That being said, I remember their Millenium redevelopments being hamstrung by Sainsbury's refusing to move out, so if the aesthetics work and it improves the city centre, I'm all for a bigger vision than the piecemeal developments the Millenium changes ended up being, when they really had a chance to do something then, too.

 

[fernandopartridge]

I agree with getting rid of it. I find the council nauseating in how they pick their battles. I recall them commencing court proceedings (through a company which they owned) against a Coventry SME a few years ago, for a not dissimilar sum. They take a different approach to jewellery shops owned by international conglomerates.

 

[fernandopartridge]

I know you disagree but hey, I'll still repeat it Really wish they'd taken the opportunity to demolish Cathedral Lanes, and revert to the open views of the cathedral. Stick the restaurant quarter in Spon Street, and encourage independent restaurants to make it vaguely unique to Coventry. Failing that, as you say, we're losing / lost BHS / Debenhams etc, so find an area of the precinct for the restaurants.

That being said, I remember their Millenium redevelopments being hamstrung by Sainsbury's refusing to move out, so if the aesthetics work and it improves the city centre, I'm all for a bigger vision than the piecemeal developments the Millenium changes ended up being, when they really had a chance to do something then, too.

Spon Street is a dead duck, it is very poorly linked with the remainder of the city centre. They fucked it over twice too:

1. With the atrocious unsympathetic Skydome
2. With the even worse Ikea

I'm no fan of Cathedral Lanes but the restaurant development there is better something of a mythical view of a Cathedral

 

[RedSalmon]

I agree with getting rid of it. I find the council nauseating in how they pick their battles. I recall them commencing court proceedings (through a company which they owned) against a Coventry SME a few years ago, for a not dissimilar sum. They take a different approach to jewellery shops owned by international conglomerates.

Have always thought it stuck out like a sore thumb and agree it should go. You are right that the Council do pick their battles, from what I remember of the Sainsburys debacle, it was only because they had deeper pockets than the council and were prepared to take the Council on that the Council backed down.

Fair play to the jewellers for standing their ground, they signed the lease in good faith so they should be compensated to the best of their ability to negotiate a compensation package. It's a shame the council tax payers of Coventry will pick up the bill but that issue sits with the Council.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I know you disagree but hey, I'll still repeat it Really wish they'd taken the opportunity to demolish Cathedral Lanes, and revert to the open views of the cathedral. Stick the restaurant quarter in Spon Street, and encourage independent restaurants to make it vaguely unique to Coventry. Failing that, as you say, we're losing / lost BHS / Debenhams etc, so find an area of the precinct for the restaurants.

That being said, I remember their Millenium redevelopments being hamstrung by Sainsbury's refusing to move out, so if the aesthetics work and it improves the city centre, I'm all for a bigger vision than the piecemeal developments the Millenium changes ended up being, when they really had a chance to do something then, too.

The view of the cathedral never actually existed beyond artists impressions as they had shops/shacks in front of it before CL (though they didn't intrude as much and were much shorter so you could see more of the spire behind)

But that doesn't mean it couldn't and having had a play with it you could open up a pocket park on CL enclosed by Broadgate, Holy Trinity, Cathedral(s) and something on the south side as it's just a service area for High St. I went with a castle-like structure in sandstone to match the other historic building to replace the Herbert and act as a gallery/museum/library/archive. Would definitely set off the whole area brilliantly IMO.

Trouble with CL is it's got a residential element on the side so it's not just a matter of kicking out the shops/restaurants, it's recently had the restaurant makeover and is currently doing quite well and it's privately owned so they'd want an extortionate amount for a CPO.

But it's top of my pipe dream list. Pencilling it in for the Millennium celebration in 2043.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Taxpayers to foot £630k shop lease surrender

The cabinet member in charge has defended the deal

www.coventrytelegraph.net

They are and have been building round the fucker for ages. The point is this particular structure gets in the way of what the precinct was supposed to do in terms of vistas. Once the escalator had gone it was obvious it was out of place and needed to go. Seems rather pointless at the moment given CL still blocks the view. Do people really want a sightline up to that - I think not. But iopen it up and I think they're hoping it'll start the "doesn't CL get in the way of the view - tear it down" conversation.

It should never have been built in the first place and was only done so because the upper level of the precinct never worked properly and they tried to force people up there with the ramp but knew it wasted lots of space inderneath and would look crap so shoved a retail unit underneath to make it financially viable.

 

[David O'Day]

I know you disagree but hey, I'll still repeat it Really wish they'd taken the opportunity to demolish Cathedral Lanes, and revert to the open views of the cathedral. Stick the restaurant quarter in Spon Street, and encourage independent restaurants to make it vaguely unique to Coventry. Failing that, as you say, we're losing / lost BHS / Debenhams etc, so find an area of the precinct for the restaurants.

That being said, I remember their Millenium redevelopments being hamstrung by Sainsbury's refusing to move out, so if the aesthetics work and it improves the city centre, I'm all for a bigger vision than the piecemeal developments the Millenium changes ended up being, when they really had a chance to do something then, too.

They wanted to knock CL down

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Contender for thread naming title of the year @clint van damme !

 

[dutchman]

The view of the cathedral never actually existed beyond artists impressions as they had shops/shacks in front of it before CL (though they didn't intrude as much and were much shorter so you could see more of the spire behind)

Behind the temporary shops there was a much taller building, a municpal canteen I think? And before there was a ramp there was a wide staircase in exactly the same position.

 

[wingy]

I miss the green bit,put it back please and sod the traffic off.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Behind the temporary shops there was a much taller building, a municpal canteen I think? And before there was a ramp there was a wide staircase in exactly the same position.

You can still see more of the spire than you can with CL

 

[dutchman]

There was a similar complaint when Walker's (also a jewellers) was built on the corner of the National & Provincial Bank, blocking off much of the view down Hertford Street.

 

[chiefdave]

Council tax going up a whopping 6% apparently.

Got to cover their pay rise somehow.

Pay rise for councillors pushed through by Labour

An amendment was proposed by Conservatives to freeze pay this year

www.coventrytelegraph.net

 

[Otis]

Behind the temporary shops there was a much taller building, a municpal canteen I think? And before there was a ramp there was a wide staircase in exactly the same position.

That's the same scaffolding that's still in place now isn't it? I get the feeling that job has slightly overran.

 

[wingy]

That's the same scaffolding that's still in place now isn't it? I get the feeling that job has slightly overran.

Corrosive!!

 

[fatso]

It’s a calculation that an improved city centre will bring more than £600k or whatever’s increased business over the next 50 years.

Hard to say until it’s done, though I do think what they did by the peeping Tom clock has worked well so maybe.

More concerned with the pig headed refusal to accept city centres aren’t going back to how they were TBH.

Cathedral lanes was supposed to bring in silly money too.
Planners haven’t got a fucking clue.
City centres are a dying concept.

 

[shmmeee]

Cathedral lanes was supposed to bring in silly money too.
Planners haven’t got a fucking clue.
City centres are a dying concept.

Agree. Don’t know how Cathedral Lanes is doing but it’s nice to see the types of restaurants they’ve brought to the city.

 

[clint van damme]

Agree. Don’t know how Cathedral Lanes is doing but it’s nice to see the types of restaurants they’ve brought to the city.

Been discussed before but I think the restaurants would have babe better in the Primark building and cathedral lanes should have been totalled

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Been discussed before but I think the restaurants would have babe better in the Primark building and cathedral lanes should have been totalled

If CL wasn't there I'd suggest the side opposite where the likes of Starbucks is, looking across Broadgate with the spires as a backdrop.

Spoken to a few councillors over the years who've said they'd have loved to get rid of it, esp before it became the restaurants and was nearly empty.

But the fact it has a residential element makes it so much harder than just a retail mall. If it didn't have the housing element they may well have CPO'd it to open up the view.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Cathedral lanes was supposed to bring in silly money too.
Planners haven’t got a fucking clue.
City centres are a dying concept.

You say city centres are dying (which from a retail point of view they are) but are not a 'concept' they're a reality. You then criticise conversion of a failed retail space to a successful development of bars and restaurants.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Been discussed before but I think the restaurants would have babe better in the Primark building and cathedral lanes should have been totalled

No, doubt that'd have worked. Cathedral Lanes was relatively hollow so more easily re-configured. Primark is a square building with whacking great concrete floors at every level.

This idea of Cathedral Lanes hiding some great vista of the Cathedral is nonsense tbh. It's been a successful development overall.

 

[shmmeee]

So what would we put in the city centre?

Skate park/play area?
Park?
Spaces people can WFH away from home?
Giant Amazon drone warehouses?
Just make it another bit of the city that happens to have nice big buildings in?

 

[NorthernWisdom]

So what would we put in the city centre?

Skate park/play area?
Park?
Spaces people can WFH away from home?
Giant Amazon drone warehouses?
Just make it another bit of the city that happens to have nice big buildings in?

Football stadium

 

[NorthernWisdom]

So what would we put in the city centre?

Skate park/play area?
Park?
Spaces people can WFH away from home?
Giant Amazon drone warehouses?
Just make it another bit of the city that happens to have nice big buildings in?

tbf I wouldn't do away with retail comnpletely, there's still a place and things like the market are actually pretty good as they go - keep that. Reinvigorate the arcade by where Argos is, and keep the ethos of independent shops, but try and make it less... scummy. Connect Spon Street to the rest of the centre, make a proper heritage trail between the buildings that are still there, and do your best to maximise space around them. Try and make the pubs around them slightly better calibre than the end up, maybe contract the city centre a little, too - it's quite wide reaching but, also tbf, where the train station is kind of limits that, as that end would be dead with nothing there, but the majority of stuff is the other side.

I actually think the space is pretty close to being... alright, but it maybe needs a gamble of low rents for a good few years, to try and establish it as a destination - that wouldn't happen instantly! Low rents might give independent businesses a chance of taking a gamble, too, which would at least make it distinct.

There's an impending issue with West Orchards if Debenhams really go pop - there's three floors worth of space gone, there. Maybe they have to beg John Lewis (the only retailer like that?) to come in if needs be. Or turn that into a massive soft play area for adults!

 

[wingy]

tbf I wouldn't do away with retail comnpletely, there's still a place and things like the market are actually pretty good as they go - keep that. Reinvigorate the arcade by where Argos is, and keep the ethos of independent shops, but try and make it less... scummy. Connect Spon Street to the rest of the centre, make a proper heritage trail between the buildings that are still there, and do your best to maximise space around them. Try and make the pubs around them slightly better calibre than the end up, maybe contract the city centre a little, too - it's quite wide reaching but, also tbf, where the train station is kind of limits that, as that end would be dead with nothing there, but the majority of stuff is the other side.

I actually think the space is pretty close to being... alright, but it maybe needs a gamble of low rents for a good few years, to try and establish it as a destination - that wouldn't happen instantly! Low rents might give independent businesses a chance of taking a gamble, too, which would at least make it distinct.

There's an impending issue with West Orchards if Debenhams really go pop - there's three floors worth of space gone, there. Maybe they have to beg John Lewis (the only retailer like that?) to come in if needs be. Or turn that into a massive soft play area for adults!

Yes the market stands alone , pretty useful if enough poeple are drawn into town .

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

tbf I wouldn't do away with retail comnpletely, there's still a place and things like the market are actually pretty good as they go - keep that. Reinvigorate the arcade by where Argos is, and keep the ethos of independent shops, but try and make it less... scummy. Connect Spon Street to the rest of the centre, make a proper heritage trail between the buildings that are still there, and do your best to maximise space around them. Try and make the pubs around them slightly better calibre than the end up, maybe contract the city centre a little, too - it's quite wide reaching but, also tbf, where the train station is kind of limits that, as that end would be dead with nothing there, but the majority of stuff is the other side.

I actually think the space is pretty close to being... alright, but it maybe needs a gamble of low rents for a good few years, to try and establish it as a destination - that wouldn't happen instantly! Low rents might give independent businesses a chance of taking a gamble, too, which would at least make it distinct.

There's an impending issue with West Orchards if Debenhams really go pop - there's three floors worth of space gone, there. Maybe they have to beg John Lewis (the only retailer like that?) to come in if needs be. Or turn that into a massive soft play area for adults!

A heritage trail would involve walking for ages to see small individual buildings in most cases - not worth the effort. I like the idea but if you're going to do it it needs condensing in an area rather than a trail between them. It needs critical mass to create an impression. Obviously the bigger stone buildings will have to stay where they are but most of the historic buildings could probably be moved as they're timber framed. Spon St is sort of like that but was done as a 'dumping area' rather than with a plan.

Take the three spires and build a heritage zone using the older buildings between them. High St(Pepper Lane)/Greyfriars Lane/New Union St/Little Park St. Could create a small 'living museum' with tourist shops etc in between, recreating the conditions to make it more 'authentic' - narrower lanes etc. Would suggest cobbles but prob not allowed now. I would stop short of roads filled with horse shit and an open sewer running down them though!

With bigger buildings it's trying to get a sightline between them so the trail is obvious. For example I've always felt St Johns church should've been the focal point at the opposite end of the precinct with the cathedral at the other. Think they were going for the historic vs modern counterpoint though.