MichaelCCFC
New Member
If a new owner comes in will they be any better than ones over last 10-15 years or do we get serious about fan-led ownership like at Swansea and Pompey?
Big question for City fans (10 Viewers)
- Thread starter MichaelCCFC
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skybluesam66
Well-Known Member
i think at this stage we can only hope
Fan led ownership will only work if it is a democratic ownership and not self appointed as appears to be the case with the leaders of the trust
Fan led ownership will only work if it is a democratic ownership and not self appointed as appears to be the case with the leaders of the trust
MichaelCCFC
New Member
sam66 - the Trust is an independent, democratic and legally constituted body. Membership is open to all and the Board members are elected by the membership which takes place at the AGM, last one being last July. I think there is some confusion that people are self-appointed but they're not - they are democratically elected.
skybluesam66
Well-Known Member
ok, but as quoted to me yesterday - they do not represent the fans of ccfc, only the members of the trust
We are talking about ownership by the fans of ccfc
LarryGrayson
Member
swansea is only fan led becos 75 per cent of the clubs owned by very rich fans!
MichaelCCFC
New Member
i would be happy with a owner that is honest even if it is not what the fans want to hear, I Just want to concentrate on the football not all the crap and mud slinging we have endured for the last 10 years and more
Sub - i think that's the point. everyone is sick to death of the last 10-15 years but the question is how do things get better. We have had lots of wealthy business people as owners but they haven't built a successful ccfc. Remember, when sisu came in they made great promises and we all had high hopes but look where things have ended up. How do we know the next owner will be any better? so is fan-led ownership the best way of achieving what you and everyone else wants ie a ccfc that is successful
MichaelCCFC
New Member
What happened at swans was when they were in mess like us fans formed a trust and then brought in local businessmen who had some money but weren't mega wealthy. Essentially they were a group of friends who shared the same vision. So it has certainly been fan-led, and is one particular model. At pompey, the current position is the trust will have a 51-60% stake and co-investors (again local business people not a mega wealthy individual) have the rest. that's a different approach and we could of course have our own coventry model.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
It's a gamble. New owners could be better and they could be worse. As for fan-led ownership, that's a difficult one, not something I'd like to see, to be honest.
LarryGrayson
Member
swansea is not trust owned tho its some very rich fans who fund it a bit like if elliott was very rich indeed martin morgan alone has a worth of over £40mil
MichaelCCFC
New Member
Ownership through a supporters Trust is a legally constitued process. I am not sure what a model of general ownership by fans would be and how it would work.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Michael, can I say one thing. I think you come across really well on the tele.
MichaelCCFC
New Member
That's the success story they have built but that's not how it started when they were in the same position as we are now. To get things moving in the right direction was fan-led at the swans (have a look at the history page on the swans trust website it gives all the background info)
TurkeyTrot
New Member
Larry, as I understand it Martin Morgan was not 100% sure about investing in the club but the trust spoke to him and spoke about the trusts vision for the club, how they saw community involvement and how the trust would help support that to sustain a core future fan base etc so it's not all about money.
Monkeyface
Well-Known Member
I certainly thing fan representation within CCFC, whoever new owners maybe, is essential. Its not uncommon to meet a fellow Sky Blue who things the club has been taken for a ride over the last 20 years, hopefully having an unpaid suporter or two on the board would make the whole operation transparent. Especially if they had to be elected, say every two years.
skybluesam66
Well-Known Member
it could be linked to season ticket holders
to me - that is more of a commitment to the club, than somebody who pays £1
LarryGrayson
Member
wot it proves is fan ownership works for firefightin it dont work for movin a club on as trusts then have to sell or let others cum in
LarryGrayson
Member
without his money he wudnt be there id assume your happy to have trust own 20 per cent elliot own 20 per cent hoofman own 20 per cent an find a couple of rich fans for the rest if so then grand but that ant trust ownership
MichaelCCFC
New Member
Cheers, Torch! when we spoke to pompey trust on saturday what struck me was how they got to a point of saying could fans actually do any worse than all these rich investors (and at pompey they even bought some short term success before it all collapsed, unlike us!) we have a welathy finnish-american owner and were made great promises and had high hopes and end up in the high court. Will, for example, a new american millionaire be any different to the usual platitudes and broken promises. Pompey fans have raised something over £2m and that will be the biggest cash injection ever into the club because previous wealthy owners did everything as loans of one sort or another. Much of that probably applies to ccfc and having had 2 days in the high court getting ever more bemused and ever more angry about what is happening to our club i seriously wonder how fan-led ownership could make things any worse - and it might just make things better
TurkeyTrot
New Member
I think Swansea have something like that. If you buy a season ticket you become a member of the trust. You have to "opt out" if you don't want to become a member.
Broken Hearted Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
The board of the Trust were voted on democraticaly at a meeting at the squirel pub by fans who had joined the Trust
TurkeyTrot
New Member
No it's not trust ownership, but we would have a say and stake in our club.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
My pleasure. I know you were in court and all that, but I'm pleased you weren't wearing a City top! You know how cynical I am and you made sense to me, so I'm sure you do to a lot of people who were watching you, not just City fans.
MichaelCCFC
New Member
At this point the club isn't even for sale so all this is hypothetical and I'm nt fixed on trying to achieve model A or model B etc. I started off a skeptic but am now wholly convinced of the principle of fan-led ownership. Given the ccfc position, the stadium, surrounding land, different parties' interests, regeneration issues etc I tend to think we will need our own 'Coventry model' of fan led ownership. This ain't easy and the court stuff has left me bemused and angry. So I am grateful for all the responses and ideas in this thread. I've got to get off here now but will try and pick things up and respond to any further points tonight. cheers!
TurkeyTrot
New Member
Steady on Torch, he won't be about to get his head through the door for the next trust meeting
LarryGrayson
Member
got no prob with having a steak but didnt fans have that before sisu an they were pressured to sing over there shares it werent thru the trust but fans cud own shares
cudnt you do it so fans cud own shares on condition they nominate the trust as proxy to vote on things gives fans a personal steak but the trust get the say
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Michael, I love you!!! I know it's crazy and we've never met, but we could make it work!
Steady on Torch, he won't be about to get his head through the door for the next trust meeting
Flying Fokker
Well-Known Member
So how would this all work? Would we all be crowded in the Jaguar Hall after the game? Would there be a hierarchy where the track suited, toothless joint owners would be in with the major shareholders. In all of this there will be some more equal than others.
It is something we will have to get used to as fans if we are to take this club forward.
It is something we will have to get used to as fans if we are to take this club forward.
LarryGrayson
Member
fan led ownership dont work tho if a club wants to move on it worked for wimbledon they had no club an now theyve reached there limit exeter got lucky with a cup drawer and reached there limit other clubs lick notts county just ran out of cash it works for firefightin lick pompey but not if a club wants to move upward so shud always be a last resort
TurkeyTrot
New Member
Absolutely Larry! As Michael pointed out, maybe we need a "Coventry model" individual fans, small business, local bigger business proxy votes to the Trust who vote for what the fans want. Open and transparent, it could just work! We just need an opportunity and lots of hard work..
Broken Hearted Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Must remind Barca fans to get out now if they want to move on now they have finished their firefighting
LarryGrayson
Member
the fans usual want the club to spend money it ant got tho
the old model was a rights issue but it needs sumwon to underwrite it id buy shares in the club meself given the option id also join the trust if they cud raise the guarantees to underwrite it as long as they gave the option to fans to buy individual like first
LarryGrayson
Member
baracas not trust ownership its member owners and argubal spain dont work barca an real madrid have massive dets propped up by counsels deportivo la coruna cud go bust very shortly along with valencia check this out
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/mar/21/eu-debt-spain-football-clubs
TurkeyTrot
New Member
I think that was the case but 1. I think fans have got a bit more financially aware in recent times and 2. If they had money invested I'm sure they would be business minded. We would have to be clear with our objectives before we could move forward with this. Investments and any debt should be affordable and sustainable.