Ben Sheaf future (1 Viewer)

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Greggs

Greggs

Well-Known Member
HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
Ok Sheffield Weds aswell, sorry about that. Why would the relegated teams matter? Again I’ve told you we’re a statistics based team. Sheaf is a better player than Kelly and matches up with James.


you talk of freebies, but again what decent player is going to come to us on 7k per week.

you Mention that we were defensively better with James and Kelly, that’s not true at all. Ideally we start next season with Sheaf and James. As much as I love Kelly he’s not the answer in The championship. Good squad player - but Sheaf is a far better player
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Ok Statto.
I mentioned the relegated teams because you were using them as an example of when our form had a slight up turn. Surely basic logic tells you we may be able to perform better against the weaker teams?!

With wages, i'm guessing the Sheaf deal over 3 years may cost us a couple of million quid. Couldn't that be put towards a decent free agent?!

Fuck Kelly off and spend a big chunk of money on sheaf. That's your logic?! I'm not going to waste either of our time anymore. Enjoy your evening.
 
Evo1883

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
Stats don't tell the full story .

I think that's blatantly obvious .

There are too many variables

Level of opposition , position of other players around them , calibre of player running at them , formation played, was the ball high /waist height/ ground level , how much pace was on the ball , what other factors influenced the decision making of the player about to make a tackle, pitch condition ... blah blah
 
H

HuckerbyDublinWhelan

Well-Known Member
Greggs said:
Ok Statto.
I mentioned the relegated teams because you were using them as an example of when our form had a slight up turn. Surely basic logic tells you we may be able to perform better against the weaker teams?!

With wages, i'm guessing the Sheaf deal over 3 years may cost us a couple of million quid. Couldn't that be put towards a decent free agent?!

Fuck Kelly off and spend a big chunk of money on sheaf. That's your logic?! I'm not going to waste either of our time anymore. Enjoy your evening.
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Didn’t say fuck Kelly off, just saying Sheaf is a better player.

and the budget would have already been accounted for. Maybe trust in the process that got us here?
 
H

HuckerbyDublinWhelan

Well-Known Member
Evo1883 said:
Stats don't tell the full story .

I think that's blatantly obvious .

There are too many variables

Level of opposition , position of other players around them , calibre of player running at them , formation played, was the ball high /waist height/ ground level , how much pace was on the ball , what other factors influenced the decision making of the player about to make a tackle, pitch condition ... blah blah
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As pointed out, we’re a data driven side. It’s the method behind our recruitment max

Did you know Sheaf lost the ball less than James and Kelly - 3 times less per game.

he also recovered the ball more than both of them.

the statistical method also sees Barnsley doing alright and Brentford
 
Evo1883

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
As pointed out, we’re a data driven side. It’s the method behind our recruitment max

Did you know Sheaf lost the ball less than James and Kelly - 3 times less per game.

he also recovered the ball more than both of them.

the statistical method also sees Barnsley doing alright and Brentford
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That's a great stat .

James is a better player though , I can visually see that myself .

Sheaf was pretty much abandoned last season , in favour of James

Stat based recruitment has certainly thrown up some curve balls , but yes we are definitely Improving using it.

Stats don't tell the full story though , there probably wasn't a stat that stated da Costa drifts into the changing room when playing wing back , for example

Has there ever been an accurate league table based on XG for example ? Don't think I've ever seen one

Mind you xg is measured the same way wether its Messi or bakayoko isn't it ?
It doesn't take many things into account ..
 
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Greggs

Greggs

Well-Known Member
HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
As pointed out, we’re a data driven side. It’s the method behind our recruitment max

Did you know Sheaf lost the ball less than James and Kelly - 3 times less per game.

he also recovered the ball more than both of them.

the statistical method also sees Barnsley doing alright and Brentford
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Is your data just hand picked from when Sheaf played against Wycombe, Rotherham, Birmingham, Sheffield Wednesday, Derby, Huddersfield and Norwich u23's?
 
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H

HuckerbyDublinWhelan

Well-Known Member
Greggs said:
Is your data just hand picked from when we played Wycombe, Rotherham, Birmingham, Sheffield Wednesday, Derby, Huddersfield and Norwich u23's?
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No picked up from the whole season. The data is freely available. I’ve actually put it in the previous pages.
Evo1883 said:
That's a great stat .

James is a better player though , I can visually see that myself .

Sheaf was pretty much abandoned last season , in favour of James

Stat based recruitment has certainly thrown up some curve balls , but yes we are definitely Improving using it.

Stats don't tell the full story though , there probably wasn't a stat that stated da Costa drifts into the changing room when playing wing back , for example
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I like James and would agree he’s an all round better player, but he isn’t massively better. I found that his experience was massive in the key games last season, that’s what he has over Sheaf.

but Sheaf isn’t this terrible player he’s made out to be. The 750k is buying a good player, and with the potential to be a better player than James.

James went missing at times and as Grendel mentioned did flatter to deceive - but hey he smiled and there were no rumours about him not wanting to come. Those games were ignored.
 
Evo1883

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
No picked up from the whole season. The data is freely available. I’ve actually put it in the previous pages.

I like James and would agree he’s an all round better player, but he isn’t massively better. I found that his experience was massive in the key games last season, that’s what he has over Sheaf.

but Sheaf isn’t this terrible player he’s made out to be. The 750k is buying a good player, and with the potential to be a better player than James.

James went missing at times and as Grendel mentioned did flatter to deceive - but hey he smiled and there were no rumours about him not wanting to come. Those games were ignored.
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For me it's never been about him smiling , I just don't think he's as good as his stats would suggest .

He's not a player I'd sign , I said this way back early doors .

If we have to sign him then we sign him and hopefully we get the best from him.

Il be at the games anyway and he will like all the players have my support on match day
 
H

Hertsccfc

Well-Known Member
Greggs said:
We need to strengthen short term though mate!?
If Sheaf is our best DMC next season, we go down
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Indeed you need to think both short term and long term. James was a great signing short term (and hopefully longer). But that doesn't mean you don't also pick up promising young players whose worth to the club come over a longer period.

Basically it all comes down to whether we rate the guy or not. I do, and feel he will end up as an great investment. You clearly don't. In reality neither of us are experts (I assume). We're just fans with opinions, so we will just have to wait and see how he does.
 
Greggs

Greggs

Well-Known Member
HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
No picked up from the whole season. The data is freely available. I’ve actually put it in the previous pages.
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Well surely data is only relevant if the parties being assessed are on the same playing field? The majority of the games Sheaf's data comes from is when we're playing teams below us in the league - Kelly and James's data come from playing teams mostly above us in the league. Surely not a fair set of data?
 
Greggs

Greggs

Well-Known Member
Hertsccfc said:
Indeed you need to think both short term and long term. James was a great signing short term (and hopefully longer). But that doesn't mean you don't also pick up promising young players whose worth to the club come over a longer period.

Basically it all comes down to whether we rate the guy or not. I do, and feel he will end up as an great investment. You clearly don't. In reality neither of us are experts (I assume). We're just fans with opinions, so we will just have to wait and see how he does.
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I just feel the money would be better off spent elsewhere. I don't see any bargain in the Sheaf deal, whereas O'hare was free.
 
Evo1883

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
Greggs said:
Well surely data is only relevant if the parties being accessed are on the same playing field? The majority of the games Sheaf's data comes from is when we're playing teams below us in the league - Kelly and James's data come from playing teams mostly above us in the league. Surely not a fair set of data?
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I haven't looked this up , but it's semi valid in sense that there are so many variables when looking at stats to begin with
 
H

HuckerbyDublinWhelan

Well-Known Member
Greggs said:
Well surely data is only relevant if the parties being assessed are on the same playing field? The majority of the games Sheaf's data comes from is when we're playing teams below us in the league - Kelly and James's data come from playing teams mostly above us in the league. Surely not a fair set of data?
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there is merit to that, but given they both played over 23 games I’d suggest they both played every team in the league
 
slowpoke

slowpoke

Well-Known Member
All these threads about Ben Sheaf signing you just know he’s going to be this seasons whipping boy.
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Greggs said:
I mean if we're buying him for potential - 750k is a lot to lump out on a player - considering we need a keeper, centre half, left back and a goalscorer. I suppose he'll be ok in league 1 2022/23 season.
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Walsh cost Brizzle £1m barely played then left for nothing.

That’s the division we’re in. The costs go up but so do the rewards when we get it right. Hamer was the most we’ve spent in ages but is likely to at least return three times the outlay.
 
Greggs

Greggs

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
Walsh cost Brizzle £1m barely played then left for nothing.

That’s the division we’re in. The costs go up but so do the rewards when we get it right. Hamer was the most we’ve spent in ages but is likely to at least return three times the outlay.
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How much other money did Bristol spend that summer?
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1622739309021.png
 
stupot07

stupot07

Well-Known Member
Greggs said:
Well surely data is only relevant if the parties being assessed are on the same playing field? The majority of the games Sheaf's data comes from is when we're playing teams below us in the league - Kelly and James's data come from playing teams mostly above us in the league. Surely not a fair set of data?
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Thats not true. These are the teams Sheafs played against this season.

1st Norwich x 1
2nd Watford x 1
3rd Brentford x 2
Swansea x2
Barnsley x1
Bournemouth x1
8 against the top 6

Reading x2
Cardiff x1
Qpr x1
Middlesbrough x1
Millwall x2
Luton x1
Preston x1
Stoke x1
Blackburn x1
11 against 7th to 15th
-------
Us
------
Forest x2
Birmingham x2
Bristol x1
Huddlesfield x1
Derby x1
Wycombe x2
Rotherham x0
Sheffield x2

11 against 17th to 24th

63% against teams above us in the league

James has played 1x everyone in the league so 65% of his games are against teams above us in the league. Its comparable.

Can't be arsed to look at Kelly's.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
 
Greggs

Greggs

Well-Known Member
stupot07 said:
Thats not true. These are the teams Sheafs played against this season.

1st Norwich x 1
2nd Watford x 1
3rd Brentford x 2
Swansea x2
Barnsley x1
Bournemouth x1
8 against the top 6

Reading x2
Cardiff x1
Qpr x1
Middlesbrough x1
Millwall x2
Luton x1
Preston x1
Stoke x1
Blackburn x1
11 against 7th to 15th
-------
Us
------
Forest x2
Birmingham x2
Bristol x1
Huddlesfield x1
Derby x1
Wycombe x2
Rotherham x0
Sheffield x2

11 against 17th to 24th

63% against teams above us in the league

James has played 1x everyone in the league so 65% of his games are against teams above us in the league. Its comparable.

Can't be arsed to look at Kelly's.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
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hahahahahaha I did wonder who would go full on nerd mode. Job done. I'm off to Nando's
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Greggs said:
How much other money did Bristol spend that summer?
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View attachment 20361
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That’s not the point. You’d snap their hand off for Walsh I assume, well for that sort of player you’re paying around the £1m mark, that’s just the cost of picking up the sorts of rough diamonds we are in the market for in the Championship. To a high spending club it’s someone who can sit in the U23s or be loaned out (see McCallum at Norwich too), to us it’s a first team player.

The few frees that come up end up with astronomical wages it seems.
 
Greggs

Greggs

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
That’s not the point. You’d snap their hand off for Walsh I assume, well for that sort of player you’re paying around the £1m mark, that’s just the cost of picking up the sorts of rough diamonds we are in the market for in the Championship. To a high spending club it’s someone who can sit in the U23s or be loaned out (se
shmmeee said:
That’s not the point. You’d snap their hand off for Walsh I assume, well for that sort of player you’re paying around the £1m mark, that’s just the cost of picking up the sorts of rough diamonds we are in the market for in the Championship. To a high spending club it’s someone who can sit in the U23s or be loaned out (see McCallum at Norwich too), to us it’s a first team player.

The few frees that come up end up with astronomical wages it seems.

Walsh is free. We hardly ever pay big sums for players, 750k-ish is a lot of money for us. Bristol spend 10+million the year they signed walsh.
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Philosorapter

Philosorapter

Well-Known Member
Evo1883 said:
Stats don't tell the full story .

I think that's blatantly obvious .

There are too many variables

Level of opposition , position of other players around them , calibre of player running at them , formation played, was the ball high /waist height/ ground level , how much pace was on the ball , what other factors influenced the decision making of the player about to make a tackle, pitch condition ... blah blah
Click to expand...

 
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