After the Elation - The questions (1 Viewer)

[mrtrench]

Just had swindons chairman on talksport, long story cut short said he should be celebrating promotion but the true scenario is with out help from somewhere he doubts they will be able to start the season in league one with no income coming in, and this is coming from a well run club with a fairly decent fan base, makes you wonder where it leaves us slightly worrying listening to what was said.

Business unable to operate with no income shocker!

 

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[robbiekeane]

No. No no no. Do you really want SISU to hang around. Just look at what they did over the years they had stewardship of the club. Liars, charlatans, disregarding city based football. Lies about stadiums etc. The revenue/ any revenue had come via sales. We needed owners to hold on or them. SISU held us back. Small crowds/ distancing themselves from the fan base.etc....no no no

You realise they’ve been plugging the shortfall to the tune of at least a million a year the majority of year’s right? Sales haven’t been enough to keep us breaking even for all but about 1 of the last 10/15 years I think.

SISU were arseholes for a very long time but seemed to have learnt something of a lesson by putting people in charge who actually have a clue about football. On top of that, I’m actually a big fan of a sustainable business model in the absence of some fairytale sugar daddy so for me, I am actually content with them. Better the devil you know.

 

[Flying Fokker]

Some more work needed. I’m sure they’ve twigged that the fan base is important as well. Business models are important but I can’t help thinking it’s such a pity they left many fans and even more glory supporters back in the city.

this is in reply to another post.
Just a quick one, was city already in admin when SISU came. I can’t remember but if not, then the argument that we were going out of business prior to SISU is not as strong as espoused by some. A period of admin may have been a better option.
Given that SISU did it anyway they are not exactly white nights. All business of course.
So were we actually in admin when sisu came?

 

[Flying Fokker]

Coventry City under Sisu.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Coventry City under Sisu.

Is that new?

 

[The coventrian]

If Sisu get us to the prem... Are they suddenly heroes?

I'd argue yes

When sisu dispose of us they should never be allowed to own a football club again after what theyve put our fanbase through.

 

[Grendel]

Is that new?

Relegation year league 1 I assume

 

[Magwitch]

If you read the article/interview in today's Times with the Cardiff City CEO he infers that 50% of the clubs currently in the Championship are up for sale. He quotes Derby as a club with a non sustainable business model. Leeds are the same if they don't promoted this season.
If you had money to invest in a Championship Club why would you pick Coventry. ( unless you were a City fan with about £20million to waste )
The chances of SISU giving us away is probably zero, so think we are "stuck" with them for several more years so may as well get behind them and support the team/club when we get the chance.

Despite our current ground situation I think buying Coventry City would be as good as any other club, I also think you would get a club on the up and with what I would call a standing start, some of these championship clubs have a number of players on five figure weekly wages, shudder to think what Rooney is on at Derby for example. How these clubs are going to sustain these million pound+ a year wages heaven knows.
Having said that and certainly not a member of any sisu fan club we seem to be doing better behind the scenes now, does that coincide with Tim Fisher seemingly out of the picture?
Next season I think it will be bcd for a long while should that happen and can work on getting this ridiculous ground situation sorted for when crowds return at the moment I’m okay with our current situation.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Some more work needed. I’m sure they’ve twigged that the fan base is important as well. Business models are important but I can’t help thinking it’s such a pity they left many fans and even more glory supporters back in the city.

this is in reply to another post.
Just a quick one, was city already in admin when SISU came. I can’t remember but if not, then the argument that we were going out of business prior to SISU is not as strong as espoused by some. A period of admin may have been a better option.
Given that SISU did it anyway they are not exactly white nights. All business of course.
So were we actually in admin when sisu came?

We would have gone into admin and taken a points deduction (probably would have sent us down). Then it would have been down to the administrator to accept a bid

 

[The coventrian]

Despite our current ground situation I think buying Coventry City would be as good as any other club, I also think you would get a club on the up and with what I would call a standing start, some of these championship clubs have a number of players on five figure weekly wages, shudder to think what Rooney is on at Derby for example. How these clubs are going to sustain these million pound+ a year wages heaven knows.
Having said that and certainly not a member of any sisu fan club we seem to be doing better behind the scenes now, does that coincide with Tim Fisher seemingly out of the picture?
Next season I think it will be bcd for a long while should that happen and can work on getting this ridiculous ground situation sorted for when crowds return at the moment I’m okay with our current situation.

I thought they were building us a stadium........

 

[Specs WT-R75]

After the elation and celebrations of promotion which is pretty certain next week - How do you think the clubs are going to approach things particularly our club as many questions need answering. Many club will be in the same boat, some worse than others
Income
Clubs could be without proper income for a 12 - 18 months (maybe a possibility of some revenue in time off football behind closed doors income tv

Last season the median income was around 25m and bottom income more than double our current budget at 12.5m and I don't expect our budget to be rock bottom next year (it'll be close I am sure).

Digging deeper, 4.3m solidarity payment, and 2.3m EFL sky deal - the more games you have on sky the higher that can rise (Ipswich got over 8m combined last year). That's this season's budget covered before you consider ANY other income from sponsorship, ifollow/matchday, retail.

So from a standing start we would not be looking to make cuts, but to decide how to best get value for money out of the additional revenue that we do have to spend. That will allow us to hopefully out-perform our budget, at least next year.

Stadium
Where will Cov be playing in the Championship?

Might not matter for a while...

Standing Still
Are club owners going to keep on paying the standing costs and keep things ticking over of players wages (don’t think the government will for long term) and overheads such staff costs and stadiums maintenance

Yes. The one thing Sisu have done over the years, is pay the staff, on time, every month... and if the team is in the Championship, then the budget is covered next season one way or another. Just need to get promoted now, what could possibly go wrong...

 

[ccfc1234]

Not sure on other opinions but watched one of the German games yesterday and was basically not interested - The fans certainly make a difference to a game - Do not think the TV companies would attract the ongoing revenues needed - Get away with a few games behind closed doors but if it continued I think fans would disappear in droves

Agree with this. My comment was one just about TV money in relation to fans. But your right the product without fans is devalued.

 

[ccfcricoh]

Hummel just need to pull another classic shirt out of the bag and that will keep us afloat while all the Nike template clubs sink deeper and deeper!

 

[Flying Fokker]

We would have gone into admin and taken a points deduction (probably would have sent us down). Then it would have been down to the administrator to accept a bid[/QUOT]

That was the point. SISU did it anyway. The business model was unsustainable and we’d have been relegated at some point (It’s pointless talking about it really). We have SISU until they decide it’s right to sell up.

 

[chiefdave]

We would have gone into admin and taken a points deduction (probably would have sent us down). Then it would have been down to the administrator to accept a bid

KMPG had already run through what was essentially an administration process. That's how we ended up with multiple people bidding to buy the club. Problem was all but one identified the need for stadium ownership and dropped out leaving one option.

The only reason we didn't technically go into administration was because those owed the money thought there was more chance of a new owner with no points deduction.

Of course there's nothing to say another bidder would have appeared but it would have been unlikely IMO and a huge risk to take.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

KMPG had already run through what was essentially an administration process. That's how we ended up with multiple people bidding to buy the club. Problem was all but one identified the need for stadium ownership and dropped out leaving one option.

The only reason we didn't technically go into administration was because those owed the money thought there was more chance of a new owner with no points deduction.

Of course there's nothing to say another bidder would have appeared but it would have been unlikely IMO and a huge risk to take.

Yeah I remember that (Manhattan Group?). It was certainly portrayed as SISU or bust

 

[shmmeee]

You realise they’ve been plugging the shortfall to the tune of at least a million a year the majority of year’s right? Sales haven’t been enough to keep us breaking even for all but about 1 of the last 10/15 years I think.

SISU were arseholes for a very long time but seemed to have learnt something of a lesson by putting people in charge who actually have a clue about football. On top of that, I’m actually a big fan of a sustainable business model in the absence of some fairytale sugar daddy so for me, I am actually content with them. Better the devil you know.

Not to be a pedant, but if they’ve been plugging a shortfall then they are in fact sugar daddies. Just the sort that buys from Elizabeth Duke rather than Cartier.

 

[Grendel]

Not to be a pedant, but if they’ve been plugging a shortfall then they are in fact sugar daddies. Just the sort that buys from Elizabeth Duke rather than Cartier.

Not really as if the intention was initially promotion and sell then actually the return on investment would have been significant and even now with the very unlikely scenario of another promotion with minimal investment it would be so. As would have been the ACL distress plan if the council had behaved like any other council and not prostituted themselves to an equally dodgy London hedge fund

 

[Grendel]

Yeah I remember that (Manhattan Group?). It was certainly portrayed as SISU or bust

They were before and well I never said the Council were a bunch of tossers no one can do business with

 

[Brylowes]

Presuming we stay at St Andrews next season in the Championship, lets hope the 3 year agreement
that’s in place isn’t contractual binding ‘meaning we pay a prearranged rent for the use of.
If so and it is BCD that’s gotta be a massive financial hit for us ‘but a potential lifeline for BCFC.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Presuming we stay at St Andrews next season in the Championship, lets hope the 3 year agreement
that’s in place isn’t contractual binding ‘meaning we pay a prearranged rent for the use of.
If so and it is BCD that’s gotta be a massive financial hit for us ‘but a potential lifeline for BCFC.

Thought it was a rolling contract? Fairly sure Boddy said as much

 

[Brylowes]

Thought it was a rolling contract? Fairly sure Boddy said as much

So rolling on a pre-agreed rent ?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

So rolling on a pre-agreed rent ?

Don’t know if the terms changed with promotion but fairly sure we have the chance to cancel at the end of each season

 

[Brylowes]

Don’t know if the terms changed with promotion but fairly sure we have the chance to cancel at the end of each season

Yeah I know we have a get out clause included, I’m just thinking if we have to stay there another
season ‘will we be paying a pre-agreed rent whilst having no revenue from the gate.

 

[Pete in Portugal]

I don't think for a minute BCD will happen when the new season gets under way - whenever that will be. Some capacity control perhaps if this thing is still going but I doubt we are still hiding away come December time.

I agree. The reason is that playing BCD just does not stack up financially. It results in considerable costs, with very little additional income to balance them. The Premier clubs will try to do it, in an attempt to reduce Sky's massive claim for a refund of TV rights dosh. Sky are claiming that, because the matches are being played outside of the contracted schedule, they are of no value to them. I believe there will have to be some sort of negotiated settlement and this is just Sky's opening position.

 

[covboy1987]

After the elation and celebrations of promotion which is pretty certain next week - How do you think the clubs are going to approach things particularly our club as many questions need answering. Many club will be in the same boat, some worse than others
Income
Clubs could be without proper income for a 12 - 18 months (maybe a possibility of some revenue in time off football behind closed doors income tv
Stadium
Where will Cov be playing in the Championship?
Standing Still
Are club owners going to keep on paying the standing costs and keep things ticking over of players wages (don’t think the government will for long term) and overheads such staff costs and stadiums maintenance

This morning the Huddersfield chairman has said that up to 60 clubs could go bust within 12 months as they have no income -

 

[Magwitch]

Our position is interesting, don’t know what our wage bill or other costs are but it certainly hasn’t been funded from gates. If tv deals remain in tact for next season that’s considerably more than we get now,
Will wages rise that much for all clubs I doubt it, the opposite I reckon and there are players in the championship on five figure salaries.
Might mean we can compete better for better players.
Will be interesting how deep the pockets of some club owners will be.

 

[Somerset Sky Blue]

Our position is interesting, don’t know what our wage bill or other costs are but it certainly hasn’t been funded from gates. If tv deals remain in tact for next season that’s considerably more than we get now,
Will wages rise that much for all clubs I doubt it, the opposite I reckon and there are players in the championship on five figure salaries.
Might mean we can compete better for better players.
Will be interesting how deep the pockets of some club owners will be.

Our wages might rise due to bonuses / raises linked to promotion though?

 

[The Philosopher]

Don’t think our wages will be anywhere near most of the others in the Championship, promotion bonuses or not.

Such is the nature of player contracts many of the “assets” of the big spending clubs may actually become liabilities. Eg where clubs will be willing to pay players off or part fund their transfer away.

As mentioned previously- this puts us in an oddly strong position.

 

[Magwitch]

Our wages might rise due to bonuses / raises linked to promotion though?

Hope they do rise through bonuses should mean we are doing okay.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

At this stage with all the manouevering, shady goings on & doubt around how the vote will go, I'd be happy with just some elation, the questions can wait