Administration or liquidation? (1 Viewer)

[thorn in my side]

So - reading the many posts of late there is an assumption that forcing SISU out (by whatever means) will result in administration - and then Hoffman et al will come in, pick the club up for next to nothing and save the day.

Well - great if it works (subject to Hoffman and his consortium having the dough and nouce to succeed - and I am not convinced on either front).

The Council are clearly trying to force the issue with the Stadium / Rent stand-off.

But - it is a dangerous game.

SISU are the largest "creditor" by far and so call all the shots when it comes to administration or liquidation.

So then, what is liquidation and how is it different from administration?

In terms of a simple definition, liquidation is the winding up of a business that will cease operations while administration is the appointment of an administrator who may or may not seek liquidation. Liquidation can be sought even when a business is solvent but administration is ordered when the company is insolvent. Liquidation is the final phase of a business but administration may be an interim phase intended to bring the company back to solvency. It is the sole choice and decision of the of creditor with over 75% of the debt (i.e. SISU?).

My fear - corner SISU, then they press the liquidation button and end of CCFC - no Hoffman to save the day or anyone as CCFC ceases to exist - as a legal entity and as a Football League Club.

Thoughts - other than the anti-SISU rhetoric. This is serious stuff as the existence of CCFC is at stake.

A solution? - sort the rent out so it is reasonable for a Div 1 club; sell 50% of the ground to SISU; secure written undertaking that SISU will then sell - i.e. CCFC plus 50% of the ground (at least) represents an investment and may attract interested 3rd parties - CCFC and no ground, represents stalemate.

 

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[Tank Top]

TIMS.
Surely its Sisu, that is trying to force the issue on the rent, the council hasn,t upped the rent as far as i know, they knew what it was when they took us over (Saved us)

 

[rob9872]

Joy said neither so I believe her. No reason not to, since they have always been outspoken and honest with their plans.

 

[Stoppercurtis]

Coventry in the third teir of English football is bad enough without going out of the league altogether. So Admin has to best if it's a choice between the two.

Stopper

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Tim Fisher has been openly quoted as saying the rent was withheld to make a point to the council. Still, why let that get in the way of more rambling nonsense from TIMS?

 

[thorn in my side]

Admin is the best choice - but we do not have that choice - it rests entirely with SISU who may just liquidate?

 

[thorn in my side]

Tim Fisher has been openly quoted as saying the rent was withheld to make a point to the council. Still, why let that get in the way of more rambling nonsense from TIMS?

Whoosh - missed the point of the post totally...but never mind :facepalm:

 

[oldskyblue58]

so in simple terms if SISU hold over 75% of the debt owed and own the company what exactly is the benefit they gain from administration when they control the situation anyway?

If they pull the plug it will be liquidation

What is the fixation with the council and it being all their fault ?

 

[kg82]

so in simple terms if SISU hold over 75% of the debt owed and own the company what exactly is the benefit they gain from administration when they control the situation anyway?

If they pull the plug it will be liquidation

What is the fixation with the council and it being all their fault ?

They won't fix that pothole right outside his house?

 

[kingharvest]

How much could they possibly recoup from liquidation? £500k?

 

[Wrenstreetcarpark]

in amongst all the rubbish TIMS has a simple point: Sisu might put the Club into liquidation because they can't find a way out.

and as their way out is for everybody else to lose money as well it just might happen. She wants the stadium. She wants a profit from the Club. She wants this with no more investment.

at least she is clear on what she wants.

 

[kingharvest]

Yes, but, my question is - how much could they recoup from liquidation. It would be a sale of our assets, of which we have players, equipment, etc. But surelyit can be no more than maybe £1m?

I'd need the accounts to be sure, but thats my guess - and of course its dependent on how much you recoup from players.

Lets say its £1m. At that point, if Hoffman has the backing, surely we'd all much rather he spent £1.1m buying the club from them, and not re-investing that particular £1.1m in the team/club - given that the alternative is we start in the unibond league.

Probably being to simple about it - but it kind of makes sense doesn't it?

 

[thorn in my side]

She might just show that cold ruthless hedge fund streak and say sod it...writing off the losses against gains elsewhere in the hedge fund. Remember SISU have no emotional attachment to CCFC. It is just a business and she might just wind it up to poke a finger in the eye of all.

I just feel giving SISU a way out (50% stadium ownership) will achieve just that - a way out and off into the sunset, selling to new owners.

Just a different perspective.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

in amongst all the rubbish TIMS has a simple point: Sisu might put the Club into liquidation because they can't find a way out.

and as their way out is for everybody else to lose money as well it just might happen. She wants the stadium. She wants a profit from the Club. She wants this with no more investment.

at least she is clear on what she wants.

The club receives no profit on the stadium even if it owned it, until the mortgage had been fully paid. It would however stop the club having to pay rent-but it could not start taking the dividends for another 10-15 years. SISU had a way out in the Hoffman consortium and have rebuffed it repeatedly-they seem intent on portraying themselves as the poor innocent party in all of this and ACL, the Higgs Trust and the Council as the bad guys. I say again-Fisher admitted to not paying rent to prove a point; this ultimately impinges on the people of Coventry through the denial of revenue to the Council.

 

[Wrenstreetcarpark]

She might just show that cold ruthless hedge fund streak and say sod it...writing off the losses against gains elsewhere in the hedge fund. Remember SISU have no emotional attachment to CCFC. It is just a business and she might just wind it up to poke a finger in the eye of all.

I just feel giving SISU a way out (50% stadium ownership) will achieve just that - a way out and off into the sunset, selling to new owners.

Just a different perspective.

Perspective or squint? So how do Sisu get 50% of the stadium? Are they given it or do they buy it?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

We are entitled to go for the Higgs Trust stake until 2015 I think; which we have to pay for.

 

[oldskyblue58]

how does tying SISU in to 50% of the stadium facilitate SISU leaving ? They are then stuck with shares the disposal of which is dependent on the acceptance of the other 50% shareholders.

isnt it that CCFC not SISU need the shares and SISU want to dispose of CCFC.......... but even then the shares carry no right to income as it stands

 

[Wrenstreetcarpark]

So they have to pay for it.
But they then get no income from it.
So what would be the point? They would put money in and take nothing out. It would have nothing to do with FFP as it is a separate company. I can't see it happening. Anyone who is going to buy part of ACL is going to have to want (and have the money) to buy the rest of it. Would the amount needed to buy ACL be best spent this way. ACL makes what? £5/600,000 pa after it has paid its mortgage. At the moment CCFC send HMRC £450,000 per month in PAYE and NI...

 

[Jack Griffin]

It is simple, they are trying to get some extra income from and/or reduce outgoings to ACL.

To force the issue they are becoming 'bad' tenants & withholding rent. Even if that triggers penalty clauses then ACL will still have to take them seriously and address the problem.

That's all folks!

 

[sky blue john]

Blah Blah Blah Tims !!!!!!!!!!
Again Again Again Sisu have no money to buy any part of the stadium!!!!!!

I don't think they will go for liquidation, why would they ?
reasons assets they could sell via liquidation would be Ryton and players, Ryton is mortgaged and they wouldn't get much for the players.
The two most valuable assets they have are-
1) Going concern league one team with 10k season ticket holders.
2) Higgs share of the stadium agreement.
These would be both worthless down the liquidation route because CCFC would cease to exist and the Higgs agreement would die with the club.
I may be wrong but that is how i see it.