Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
I've been away for a few days but expected to come back to see some sort of discussion about this. Something is going seriously wrong with that country now.
I've been away for a few days but expected to come back to see some sort of discussion about this. Something is going seriously wrong with that country now.
something wrong when the president refuses to condemn them and at one point referred to them as "us".
May refusing to condemn them/him is equally troubling.
You can decry the left all you want but these are actual fascists. Shouting heil Hitler, calling themselves national socialists and openly agitating for a race war in order for a racially pure nation. Corbyn comes nowhere into this and you bringing him in says a hell of a lot.Just reminded me of Jeremy Corbyn and the IRA or some South America dictator.
All sides are to blame.
They are as well. The other side are equally as facist.
Just reminded me of Jeremy Corbyn and the IRA or some South America dictator.
All sides are to blame.
They are as well. The other side are equally as facist.
You can decry the left all you want but these are actual fascists. Shouting heil Hitler, calling themselves national socialists and openly agitating for a race war in order for a racially pure nation. Corbyn comes nowhere into this and you bringing him in says a hell of a lot.
Grendel, I know we disagree on most all things politics but you're deflecting away from actual Nazism now. Get some perspective.No it doesn't. when questioned about the brutal regime in venuzeuala he said all sides were to blame. When asked about the IRA he said violence on all sides were to blame.
Trump used the same excuse and get out clause.
They are two peas in the same rotten pod.
As for facist movements check out the other side and its statements on Jewish people will you?
No it doesn't. when questioned about the brutal regime in venuzeuala he said all sides were to blame. When asked about the IRA he said violence on all sides were to blame.
Trump used the same excuse and get out clause.
They are two peas in the same rotten pod.
As for facist movements check out the other side and its statements on Jewish people will you?
Watch VICE News Tonight's full episode "Charlottesville: Race and Terror"The crazy red necks from documentaries? Or different?
don't agree with that at all.
You have nazi groups marching armed in the streets - the people opposing them are opposing their extreme right wing agenda and come from all sections of the community.
This alt left moniker is bollocks, it's just designed to perpetrate this different sides of the same coin bullshit.
Allied troops fought people with the same ideals in the 2nd world war - were they alt left?
I'm surprised a t you stocking up for them, I don't agree with your politics but didn't think you'd have any truck with these people.
Mosque bombed in Montana and girl killed by driving a car at her - it's terrorism plain and simple.
it's not just about what's being said, they killed and maimed people by driving a car at them.
Indeed and when the victim was white how has the outrage in the movement been compared to if it was a black person?
I'm actually parodying this by the way as I'm far more interested and disturbed by events on our own shores this month that have passed by with little comment.
what events? The last time there were terrorist attacks in the UK there was condemnation and sympathy for the victims expressed by everyone on this board.
You're comparisons with the black movement are ridiculous.
Have they ever marched, armed, to the statue of a Jewish oppressor and killed protesters in the protest?
And you obviously haven't being reading up on this story if you think there's been no outrage about a protester getting killed because she is white.
This is not correct I don't think.Just reminded me of Jeremy Corbyn and the IRA or some South America dictator.
All sides are to blame.
They are as well. The other side are equally as facist.
If what Trump said is correct, why has it received pretty much universal condemnation and even from people on his own side?
Errm.... give me a little while to think on that one as it's really tough.I wonder what Trump would have said if a "lefties" protester who just happened to also be a muslim got in a car and ploughed through the neo nazis? Would it still have been both sides to blame or would he have labeled it a terrorist attack?
Actually for the record I am very well read on this subject. I am currently on a lengthy vacation and I have the last couple of days returned home and have read numerous articles on the issue.
Unfortunately I am unable to link an excellent article in the Times by Melanie Phillips on the subject as she, in my view, discussed the issue in an intelligent and balanced way.
If you get an opportunity read it and it may give you a more relevant perspective.
With regard to the OP if he is truly shocked that nazi groups exist in America he needs to get out more. They've existed for decades and not, as Ms Phillips points out, suddenly appeared out of thin air due entirely to the present administration.
This is not correct I don't think.
One BBC reporter was there for the days before leading up to, and at the rallies themselves has said that on the whole the people on the one side protesting against the neo Nazis and white supremacists were local people against hate crime.
He said there was violence on both sides but he only heard the inflammatory language from the one side, with Nazi chants and anti semitic language. There were a lot of weapons and shields and provocative, hate filled banners.
He said that on the whole the one side were local people, while on the other people were being shipped and flown in from all over the country.
You also make mention of anti Jewish sentiments from some on the left here, but there is surely a big difference between someone believing something in their own minds and not publicly airing those views and those who publicly air and chant en masse such views and done so like a regimented military army.
I know it is very simplified, but as someone said on Twitter yesterday, Nazis - bad, anti Nazi - Good.
We surely all know that white supremacists and neo Nazis are extremists. For the most part the people on the other side were local people protesting against what they saw as hate crime.
If what Trump said is correct, why has it received pretty much universal condemnation and even from people on his own side?
Yep.The anti semetic comment was a reference to the policy of the group on Israel which says the Jewish community support "genocide and apartheid" an unusual choice of phrase wouldn't you say?
Of course they've existed for decades, but they've become emboldened by the rhetoric of the current administration, any one who thinks differently is deluded. I'm at work but could also link you dozens of quotes from Trump which would probably get censored on here.
Errm.... give me a little while to think on that one as it's really tough.
That incident last week in Charlottesville was very clearly a terrorist attack.
Agreed, and following on from that people need to stop trying to apply labels like anti-fascist, alt-left etc. There's Nazis and then there's everyone else.The real point here is that virtually all of society are not neo nazis and will find neo nazi views repugnant and frankly ridiculous.
Those who won't condemn Nazism should be vilified. There are many Republicans who are condemning what has been happening, including two republican former presidents, something that must be unprecedented.The election of trump was legitimate but now we definately see vilification of those who voted republican as being branded as supporting the KKK. There are numerous examples on social media of people being vilified merely for being Republican.
Are you referring to Will Quigg and his claims he knew of a Clinton right wing secret agenda that was only to be revealed once she won the election?Was the KKK support for Hilary Clinton during her campaign acknowledged? I think not.
Commenting that May was very slow in critising Trump and needed two attempts at it isn't implying she is a white supremacist, its implying she's a weak leader who is more concerned about not upsetting Trump than condemning Nazis.We even have a comment that May hasn't commented on it this implying (absurdly) she is a White Supremecist sympathiser and by proxy do must anyone who supported her party.
I think they do to a degree.The anti semetic comment was a reference to the policy of the group on Israel which says the Jewish community support "genocide and apartheid" an unusual choice of phrase wouldn't you say?
When he didn't it was from the heart.
This is not correct I don't think.
One BBC reporter was there for the days before leading up to, and at the rallies themselves has said that on the whole the people on the one side protesting against the neo Nazis and white supremacists were local people against hate crime.
He said there was violence on both sides but he only heard the inflammatory language from the one side, with Nazi chants and anti semitic language. There were a lot of weapons and shields and provocative, hate filled banners.
He said that on the whole the one side were local people, while on the other people were being shipped and flown in from all over the country.
You also make mention of anti Jewish sentiments from some on the left here, but there is surely a big difference between someone believing something in their own minds and not publicly airing those views and those who publicly air and chant en masse such views and done so like a regimented military army.
I know it is very simplified, but as someone said on Twitter yesterday, Nazis - bad, anti Nazi - Good.
We surely all know that white supremacists and neo Nazis are extremists. For the most part the people on the other side were local people protesting against what they saw as hate crime.
If what Trump said is correct, why has it received pretty much universal condemnation and even from people on his own side?
Your last point has happened because Trump is wanted out by about 80% of the planet. If people feel they have a chance to shoot him down, they do. Of course, firstly he should be condemning the nazi's, but he is also right to have a pop at the other side. They have been causing chaos for ages, and the picture painted that they are some form of local heroes is an absolute joke.
The irony between this Nazism is that the fascist behaviour used by those scumbags in world war two, and the time leading up to it, is that this behaviour is now being used by the left. Not in this example so much, because racists can fuck off, but generally there is now a gag on freedom of speech. Unless it is politically correct, you cannot say it. Look at the grooming gang issues for another example.
I would also be cautious to take the BBC's standpoint on this as so black and white (sorry for the pun). When an Islamist plows into a crowd we hear that the response is to be calm and not to descend into hate crimes against Muslims. However, when this incident happens (and as far as I'm concerned you can castrate the nazi), the response is that we should tackle right wing hate crime immediately, and that white people are all racist. One person has been killed, but this has been the main news story (several times a day now) for the past week. A car plowed into a crowd in Paris last week and killed a little girl, the driver was Muslim, and this has not even been covered on the main news outlets after about 24hours following the incident.
I've got no time for Nazi's, and it should be tackled. It's the hypocrisy that I find absolutely staggering...
Your last point has happened because Trump is wanted out by about 80% of the planet. If people feel they have a chance to shoot him down, they do. Of course, firstly he should be condemning the nazi's, but he is also right to have a pop at the other side. They have been causing chaos for ages, and the picture painted that they are some form of local heroes is an absolute joke.
The irony between this Nazism is that the fascist behaviour used by those scumbags in world war two, and the time leading up to it, is that this behaviour is now being used by the left. Not in this example so much, because racists can fuck off, but generally there is now a gag on freedom of speech. Unless it is politically correct, you cannot say it. Look at the grooming gang issues for another example.
I would also be cautious to take the BBC's standpoint on this as so black and white (sorry for the pun). When an Islamist plows into a crowd we hear that the response is to be calm and not to descend into hate crimes against Muslims. However, when this incident happens (and as far as I'm concerned you can castrate the nazi), the response is that we should tackle right wing hate crime immediately, and that white people are all racist. One person has been killed, but this has been the main news story (several times a day now) for the past week. A car plowed into a crowd in Paris last week and killed a little girl, the driver was Muslim, and this has not even been covered on the main news outlets after about 24hours following the incident.
I've got no time for Nazi's, and it should be tackled. It's the hypocrisy that I find absolutely staggering...
Who is this other side who have being causing chaos for ages? Can you give me an example?
As for all white people being painted as racists, I'm a white person I don't think anyone is painting me as a racist. They are painting racists as racists.
To say the grooming gang issue hasn't been covered simply isn't true.
You have a point regarding the Paris car incident but the Montana mosque bombing has had little coverage either, perhaps events in Charlottesville have just taken over the air time.
To say their is a gag on freedom of speech is nonsense, there has never been more chance to speak your mind through the internet and social media. But it's the age old argument, what do you tolerate? Should freedom of speech give you the right to say what you want no matter who it stirs up or who it offends - I don't have an answer to be honest.
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