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Acl (1 Viewer)

  • Thread starter Nick
  • Start date Jan 13, 2015
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S

SimonGilbert

Telegraph Tea Boy
  • Jan 13, 2015
  • #106
For anyone interested, you can view the full accounts here:

https://www.facebook.com/TheSimonGi...2777599&hash=5499880748835478146&pagefilter=3
 
G

Godiva

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 13, 2015
  • #107
Captain Dart said:
So are you saying he makes the previous year look a bit shit so his first full year looks good in comparison.. I presume?
Click to expand...

Danceswithhorses said:
Yes i believe it is what he's saying.
Click to expand...

Godiva said:
I didn't say it has happened in this case, all I say is that it does happen. Especially in companies in trouble.
Click to expand...

... and now I have seen the accounts: There are NO exceptional items for 2014. It was interests (£708t) that brought profit from operation to an overall loss before tax.
 
O

oldfiver

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 13, 2015
  • #108
In 2013 accounts there was included 475k exceptional gain on the refinancing of the loans. Exclude that from 2013 and over the two years and ACL about broke even. (which is what Robertson/Eastwood from Wasps alluded to I believe)

Eastwood said

"When we looked at the year ending 2013, ACL made an operating profit in excess of £2m. In our ownership that money would be channelled into Wasps’ coffers. That’s the significance of this."

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/wasps-owner-reveals-motives-ricoh-8331444
 

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 13, 2015
  • #109
oldfiver said:
In 2013 accounts there was included 475k exceptional gain on the refinancing of the loans. Exclude that from 2013 and over the two years and ACL about broke even. (which is what Robertson/Eastwood from Wasps alluded to I believe)

Eastwood said

"When we looked at the year ending 2013, ACL made an operating profit in excess of £2m. In our ownership that money would be channelled into Wasps’ coffers. That’s the significance of this."

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/wasps-owner-reveals-motives-ricoh-8331444
Click to expand...


Operating profit is a measure of income that tells investors how much of revenue will eventually become profit for a company.
 
O

oldfiver

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 13, 2015
  • #110
italiahorse said:
Operating profit is a measure of income that tells investors how much of revenue will eventually become profit for a company.
Click to expand...

So what are the £2m add backs to get back to "break even"
 
G

Godiva

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 13, 2015
  • #111
In short 2014 vs 2013:

Turnover is down by £2.3m

Cost of sales is up by £0.4m (despite drop in turnover!)

Gross profit is down by £2.7m

Administration cost is down by £1.9m

Operating profit is down by £0.8m

Interests paid is down by 0.1m

Profit before tax is down by 0.7m


Huge drop in turnover and gross profit - that must surely be the impact of losing a major customer.
Cost of sales is up, not down - is that Weber Shandvick? Should have been around £2.7m in 2014 but is £0.8m higher.
In all gross profit is down by some 25%.

They have saved on administration cost to make up for the loss, just not enough.

Interests are a bit lower but all-in-all they are certainly not going upwards (or from strength to strength).


Disclaimer: Although I have attended OSB's online course in forensic auditing, I have never passed the exam.
 

lordsummerisle

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 13, 2015
  • #112
One thing that Eastwood can stop.

Is calling us a fucking franchise.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 13, 2015
  • #113
Godiva said:
In short 2014 vs 2013:

Turnover is down by £2.3m

Cost of sales is up by £0.4m (despite drop in turnover!)

Gross profit is down by £2.7m

Administration cost is down by £1.9m

Operating profit is down by £0.8m

Interests paid is down by 0.1m

Profit before tax is down by 0.7m


Huge drop in turnover and gross profit - that must surely be the impact of losing a major customer.
Cost of sales is up, not down - is that Weber Shandvick? Should have been around £2.7m in 2014 but is £0.8m higher.
In all gross profit is down by some 25%.

They have saved on administration cost to make up for the loss, just not enough.

Interests are a bit lower but all-in-all they are certainly not going upwards (or from strength to strength).


Disclaimer: Although I have attended OSB's online course in forensic auditing, I have never passed the exam.
Click to expand...

Great news. Lets hope SISU have the business acumen to realise the iron is hot and needs striking before someone else jumps in and picks up ACL for a bargain from under our feet. Wait, it will be alright we're the only show in town. Relax everyone SISU are in control.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 13, 2015
  • #114
Godiva said:
Huge drop in turnover and gross profit - that must surely be the impact of losing a major customer.
Click to expand...

Wonder who that is, can't be us we're only a tiny part of ACL's income.
 

lewys33

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 14, 2015
  • #115
I think that these accounts were a given seeing they were so keen to sell to a Wycombe based Rugby franchise.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Jan 14, 2015
  • #116
I thought it was due to the economic benefit that coventry would experience as so many posters on here told us. They even used to say how well acl were doing, I can't believe they were wrong....again.
 

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 14, 2015
  • #117
Grendel said:
Do you think the sale of car park c which always seemed a bit random was strategic by the council to ensure that there was sufficient cash flow to keep the business operational?
Click to expand...

Must have missed that one ?
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jan 14, 2015
  • #118
italiahorse said:
Must have missed that one ?
Click to expand...

What, Car Park C going back to CCC?
 

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 14, 2015
  • #119
Nick said:
What, Car Park C going back to CCC?
Click to expand...

Just wondered what has happened to it.
G infers it has been sold.
I thought the council owned it anyway.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jan 14, 2015
  • #120
Wasn't it handed back to CCC from ACL at the time of the new loan? (I might be wrong)
 

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 14, 2015
  • #121
Nick said:
Wasn't it handed back to CCC from ACL at the time of the new loan? (I might be wrong)
Click to expand...

I don't know.
Anyone ?
 
G

Godiva

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 14, 2015
  • #122
Nick said:
What, Car Park C going back to CCC?
Click to expand...

O, my forgetful memory is deserting me ...

I knew it was part of the bail out, but I forgot it was transferred for free:

v) to obtain the transfer of ACL’s lease of Car Park C (which had development potential) back to the Council from ACL, for nil consideration (paragraph 3.5.1.1).
Click to expand...

http://www.matrixlaw.co.uk/uploads/other/01_07_2014_01_48_11_01.07.14.pdf (§79)
 

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 14, 2015
  • #123
Godiva said:
O, my forgetful memory is deserting me ...

I knew it was part of the bail out, but I forgot it was transferred for free:



http://www.matrixlaw.co.uk/uploads/other/01_07_2014_01_48_11_01.07.14.pdf (§79)
Click to expand...

Thanks for that.
It was a consideration on there, but did it happen?
Not really that fussed but just interested now it's been mentioned.
 
G

Godiva

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 14, 2015
  • #124
italiahorse said:
Thanks for that.
It was a consideration on there, but did it happen?
Not really that fussed but just interested now it's been mentioned.
Click to expand...

I don't know, but it was discussed 'as a fact' during the JR days. If it never happened I would assume it would have been mentioned during the trial - and I don't remember seeing any objection. But, as I said, my memory is not what it used to be.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 14, 2015
  • #125
Basically the council loan was irrational unless you're Wonga
 

Mary_Mungo_Midge

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 14, 2015
  • #126
fernandopartridge said:
Basically the council loan was irrational unless you're Wonga
Click to expand...

Is that how it was seen in court?
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 14, 2015
  • #127
Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
Is that how it was seen in court?
Click to expand...

The judge got it wrong remember.
 

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 14, 2015
  • #128
fernandopartridge said:
Basically the council loan was irrational unless you're Wonga
Click to expand...

You will need to explain, because the court found differently ?
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 14, 2015
  • #129
italiahorse said:
You will need to explain, because the court found differently ?
Click to expand...

See my above answer
 

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 14, 2015
  • #130
italiahorse said:
Thanks for that.
It was a consideration on there, but did it happen?
Not really that fussed but just interested now it's been mentioned.
Click to expand...

Doesn't that mean that the Car Park Site was given to CCC.

I guess that reduces the value of ACL bought by Wasps and allows CCC to put a different developer in there, if they can find one in Cannes
 
Last edited: Jan 14, 2015

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 14, 2015
  • #131
The court didn't consider the irrational count as it was extinguished by the others apparently.

The court didn't have the knowledge that ACL have gone into further decline since the loan either.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 14, 2015
  • #132
Captain Dart said:
Doesn't that mean that the Car Park Site was given to CCC.

I guess that reduces the value of ACL bought by Wasps and allows CCC to put a different developer in there, if they can find one in Cannes
Click to expand...

They've been queuing up for 10 years apparently. What an attractive plot for a decent hotel.
 

Mary_Mungo_Midge

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 14, 2015
  • #133
fernandopartridge said:
The court didn't consider the irrational count as it was extinguished by the others apparently.

The court didn't have the knowledge that ACL have gone into further decline since the loan either.
Click to expand...

Oh, give it a rest, can you. You told us ahead of the hearing that the loan was contrary to stare aid rules. The judge disagreed with you. Take it like a man
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 14, 2015
  • #134
Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
Oh, give it a rest, can you. You told us ahead of the hearing that the loan was contrary to stare aid rules. The judge disagreed with you. Take it like a man
Click to expand...

The point I'm making in this case it that it was irrational. Or, are you saying that ACL really was a viable long term concern? Why did your mates from Wasps suddenly decide to move to Coventry?
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 14, 2015
  • #135
If this JR appeal goes SISU's way could the sale to Wasps and the information in the ACL accounts prove a problem for CCC.

Two things that got mentioned in the court case was that CCC made the loan to protect its investment and that the loan was secure due to the value of ACL. We now know that by the time of the court case CCC were already months into talks with Wasps and the value of a 50 year lease could be argued to be a lot less than the amount of the loan given the amount they have sold a 200 year extension to Wasps for.

I know you can't bring in new evidence but would that be considered things that were known at the time?
 

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 14, 2015
  • #136
chiefdave said:
If this JR appeal goes SISU's way could the sale to Wasps and the information in the ACL accounts prove a problem for CCC.

Two things that got mentioned in the court case was that CCC made the loan to protect its investment and that the loan was secure due to the value of ACL. We now know that by the time of the court case CCC were already months into talks with Wasps and the value of a 50 year lease could be argued to be a lot less than the amount of the loan given the amount they have sold a 200 year extension to Wasps for.

I know you can't bring in new evidence but would that be considered things that were known at the time?
Click to expand...

Something to look forward too. Followed by another 7 years of driving the value of ACL to zero?
Why don't you phone up Sisu and wish them all the best?

We really need to move Sisu on, not give them the impression some still support their actions.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 14, 2015
  • #137
fernandopartridge said:
The court didn't consider the irrational count as it was extinguished by the others apparently.

The court didn't have the knowledge that ACL have gone into further decline since the loan either.
Click to expand...

Isn't the reasons for the latter because the JR is based on the events that lead up to the loan not what happened next?
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Jan 14, 2015
  • #138
italiahorse said:
Something to look forward too. Followed by another 7 years of driving the value of ACL to zero? Why don't you phone up Sisu and wish them all the best?We really need to move Sisu on, not give them the impression some still support their actions.
Click to expand...
No one supports SISU- infact the very people you attack were the ones once telling you that we should be wary of them. Good luck with moving SISU on though, i'm not sure how many would want to buy a club that plays in a rugby stadium with minimal revenues. What many failed to realise was that sisu acquiring the Ricoh would have meant that they were one step closer to the exit.
 

cloughie

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 14, 2015
  • #139
However, the accounts show net cash inflow has increased substantially from £81,584 to £828,522.
 

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 14, 2015
  • #140
Sick Boy said:
No one supports SISU- infact the very people you attack were the ones once telling you that we should be wary of them. Good luck with moving SISU on though, i'm not sure how many would want to buy a club that plays in a rugby stadium with minimal revenues. What many failed to realise was that sisu acquiring the Ricoh would have meant that they were one step closer to the exit.
Click to expand...

You already obviously believe Sisu comments on owning our own stadium.
Is believing supporting ?

We don't know the revenues we get at the moment and we have made no efforts to ask for anymore as Wasps have spoken about.
Instead we continue the fruitless battle against everybody who might help us.

Sisu, just say we are for sale and lets see what happens !!
 
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