Acl (2 Viewers)

[SimonGilbert]

For anyone interested, you can view the full accounts here:

https://www.facebook.com/TheSimonGi...2777599&hash=5499880748835478146&pagefilter=3

 

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[Godiva]

So are you saying he makes the previous year look a bit shit so his first full year looks good in comparison.. I presume?

Yes i believe it is what he's saying.

I didn't say it has happened in this case, all I say is that it does happen. Especially in companies in trouble.

... and now I have seen the accounts: There are NO exceptional items for 2014. It was interests (£708t) that brought profit from operation to an overall loss before tax.

 

[oldfiver]

In 2013 accounts there was included 475k exceptional gain on the refinancing of the loans. Exclude that from 2013 and over the two years and ACL about broke even. (which is what Robertson/Eastwood from Wasps alluded to I believe)

Eastwood said

"When we looked at the year ending 2013, ACL made an operating profit in excess of £2m. In our ownership that money would be channelled into Wasps’ coffers. That’s the significance of this."

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/wasps-owner-reveals-motives-ricoh-8331444

 

[italiahorse]

In 2013 accounts there was included 475k exceptional gain on the refinancing of the loans. Exclude that from 2013 and over the two years and ACL about broke even. (which is what Robertson/Eastwood from Wasps alluded to I believe)

Eastwood said

"When we looked at the year ending 2013, ACL made an operating profit in excess of £2m. In our ownership that money would be channelled into Wasps’ coffers. That’s the significance of this."

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/wasps-owner-reveals-motives-ricoh-8331444

Operating profit is a measure of income that tells investors how much of revenue will eventually become profit for a company.

 

[oldfiver]

Operating profit is a measure of income that tells investors how much of revenue will eventually become profit for a company.

So what are the £2m add backs to get back to "break even"

 

[Godiva]

In short 2014 vs 2013:

Turnover is down by £2.3m

Cost of sales is up by £0.4m (despite drop in turnover!)

Gross profit is down by £2.7m

Administration cost is down by £1.9m

Operating profit is down by £0.8m

Interests paid is down by 0.1m

Profit before tax is down by 0.7m


Huge drop in turnover and gross profit - that must surely be the impact of losing a major customer.
Cost of sales is up, not down - is that Weber Shandvick? Should have been around £2.7m in 2014 but is £0.8m higher.
In all gross profit is down by some 25%.

They have saved on administration cost to make up for the loss, just not enough.

Interests are a bit lower but all-in-all they are certainly not going upwards (or from strength to strength).


Disclaimer: Although I have attended OSB's online course in forensic auditing, I have never passed the exam.

 

[lordsummerisle]

One thing that Eastwood can stop.

Is calling us a fucking franchise.

 

[skybluetony176]

In short 2014 vs 2013:

Turnover is down by £2.3m

Cost of sales is up by £0.4m (despite drop in turnover!)

Gross profit is down by £2.7m

Administration cost is down by £1.9m

Operating profit is down by £0.8m

Interests paid is down by 0.1m

Profit before tax is down by 0.7m


Huge drop in turnover and gross profit - that must surely be the impact of losing a major customer.
Cost of sales is up, not down - is that Weber Shandvick? Should have been around £2.7m in 2014 but is £0.8m higher.
In all gross profit is down by some 25%.

They have saved on administration cost to make up for the loss, just not enough.

Interests are a bit lower but all-in-all they are certainly not going upwards (or from strength to strength).


Disclaimer: Although I have attended OSB's online course in forensic auditing, I have never passed the exam.

Great news. Lets hope SISU have the business acumen to realise the iron is hot and needs striking before someone else jumps in and picks up ACL for a bargain from under our feet. Wait, it will be alright we're the only show in town. Relax everyone SISU are in control.

 

[chiefdave]

Huge drop in turnover and gross profit - that must surely be the impact of losing a major customer.

Wonder who that is, can't be us we're only a tiny part of ACL's income.

 

[lewys33]

I think that these accounts were a given seeing they were so keen to sell to a Wycombe based Rugby franchise.

 

[Sick Boy]

I thought it was due to the economic benefit that coventry would experience as so many posters on here told us. They even used to say how well acl were doing, I can't believe they were wrong....again.

 

[italiahorse]

Do you think the sale of car park c which always seemed a bit random was strategic by the council to ensure that there was sufficient cash flow to keep the business operational?

Must have missed that one ?

 

[Nick]

Must have missed that one ?

What, Car Park C going back to CCC?

 

[italiahorse]

What, Car Park C going back to CCC?

Just wondered what has happened to it.
G infers it has been sold.
I thought the council owned it anyway.

 

[Nick]

Wasn't it handed back to CCC from ACL at the time of the new loan? (I might be wrong)

 

[italiahorse]

Wasn't it handed back to CCC from ACL at the time of the new loan? (I might be wrong)

I don't know.
Anyone ?

 

[Godiva]

What, Car Park C going back to CCC?

O, my forgetful memory is deserting me ...

I knew it was part of the bail out, but I forgot it was transferred for free:

v) to obtain the transfer of ACL’s lease of Car Park C (which had development potential) back to the Council from ACL, for nil consideration (paragraph 3.5.1.1).

http://www.matrixlaw.co.uk/uploads/other/01_07_2014_01_48_11_01.07.14.pdf (§79)

 

[italiahorse]

O, my forgetful memory is deserting me ...

I knew it was part of the bail out, but I forgot it was transferred for free:



http://www.matrixlaw.co.uk/uploads/other/01_07_2014_01_48_11_01.07.14.pdf (§79)

Thanks for that.
It was a consideration on there, but did it happen?
Not really that fussed but just interested now it's been mentioned.

 

[Godiva]

Thanks for that.
It was a consideration on there, but did it happen?
Not really that fussed but just interested now it's been mentioned.

I don't know, but it was discussed 'as a fact' during the JR days. If it never happened I would assume it would have been mentioned during the trial - and I don't remember seeing any objection. But, as I said, my memory is not what it used to be.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Basically the council loan was irrational unless you're Wonga

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Basically the council loan was irrational unless you're Wonga

Is that how it was seen in court?

 

[skybluetony176]

Is that how it was seen in court?

The judge got it wrong remember.

 

[italiahorse]

Basically the council loan was irrational unless you're Wonga

You will need to explain, because the court found differently ?

 

[skybluetony176]

You will need to explain, because the court found differently ?

See my above answer

 

[Captain Dart]

Thanks for that.
It was a consideration on there, but did it happen?
Not really that fussed but just interested now it's been mentioned.

Doesn't that mean that the Car Park Site was given to CCC.

I guess that reduces the value of ACL bought by Wasps and allows CCC to put a different developer in there, if they can find one in Cannes

 

[fernandopartridge]

The court didn't consider the irrational count as it was extinguished by the others apparently.

The court didn't have the knowledge that ACL have gone into further decline since the loan either.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Doesn't that mean that the Car Park Site was given to CCC.

I guess that reduces the value of ACL bought by Wasps and allows CCC to put a different developer in there, if they can find one in Cannes

They've been queuing up for 10 years apparently. What an attractive plot for a decent hotel.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

The court didn't consider the irrational count as it was extinguished by the others apparently.

The court didn't have the knowledge that ACL have gone into further decline since the loan either.

Oh, give it a rest, can you. You told us ahead of the hearing that the loan was contrary to stare aid rules. The judge disagreed with you. Take it like a man

 

[fernandopartridge]

Oh, give it a rest, can you. You told us ahead of the hearing that the loan was contrary to stare aid rules. The judge disagreed with you. Take it like a man

The point I'm making in this case it that it was irrational. Or, are you saying that ACL really was a viable long term concern? Why did your mates from Wasps suddenly decide to move to Coventry?

 

[chiefdave]

If this JR appeal goes SISU's way could the sale to Wasps and the information in the ACL accounts prove a problem for CCC.

Two things that got mentioned in the court case was that CCC made the loan to protect its investment and that the loan was secure due to the value of ACL. We now know that by the time of the court case CCC were already months into talks with Wasps and the value of a 50 year lease could be argued to be a lot less than the amount of the loan given the amount they have sold a 200 year extension to Wasps for.

I know you can't bring in new evidence but would that be considered things that were known at the time?

 

[italiahorse]

If this JR appeal goes SISU's way could the sale to Wasps and the information in the ACL accounts prove a problem for CCC.

Two things that got mentioned in the court case was that CCC made the loan to protect its investment and that the loan was secure due to the value of ACL. We now know that by the time of the court case CCC were already months into talks with Wasps and the value of a 50 year lease could be argued to be a lot less than the amount of the loan given the amount they have sold a 200 year extension to Wasps for.

I know you can't bring in new evidence but would that be considered things that were known at the time?

Something to look forward too. Followed by another 7 years of driving the value of ACL to zero?
Why don't you phone up Sisu and wish them all the best?

We really need to move Sisu on, not give them the impression some still support their actions.

 

[skybluetony176]

The court didn't consider the irrational count as it was extinguished by the others apparently.

The court didn't have the knowledge that ACL have gone into further decline since the loan either.

Isn't the reasons for the latter because the JR is based on the events that lead up to the loan not what happened next?

 

[Sick Boy]

Something to look forward too. Followed by another 7 years of driving the value of ACL to zero? Why don't you phone up Sisu and wish them all the best?We really need to move Sisu on, not give them the impression some still support their actions.

No one supports SISU- infact the very people you attack were the ones once telling you that we should be wary of them. Good luck with moving SISU on though, i'm not sure how many would want to buy a club that plays in a rugby stadium with minimal revenues. What many failed to realise was that sisu acquiring the Ricoh would have meant that they were one step closer to the exit.

 

[cloughie]

However, the accounts show net cash inflow has increased substantially from £81,584 to £828,522.

 

[italiahorse]

No one supports SISU- infact the very people you attack were the ones once telling you that we should be wary of them. Good luck with moving SISU on though, i'm not sure how many would want to buy a club that plays in a rugby stadium with minimal revenues. What many failed to realise was that sisu acquiring the Ricoh would have meant that they were one step closer to the exit.

You already obviously believe Sisu comments on owning our own stadium.
Is believing supporting ?

We don't know the revenues we get at the moment and we have made no efforts to ask for anymore as Wasps have spoken about.
Instead we continue the fruitless battle against everybody who might help us.

Sisu, just say we are for sale and lets see what happens !!