ACL will have enough votes to reject deal at creditors meeting (1 Viewer)

[SkyblueBazza]

I don't know stats! Just that he doesn't tend to make stuff up, I.e letters from the football league.

Even if he's right, it will not stop the takeover eventually as it will no doubt be another court battle to get the nod - & the FL will still capitulate & welcome Otium to the fold because it is the easy option for them.

 

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[bigfatronssba]

Even if he's right, it will not stop the takeover eventually as it will no doubt be another court battle to get the nod - & the FL will still capitulate & welcome Otium to the fold because it is the easy option for them.

I agree, only the football league can stop it now, and we all know they won't.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

Foegive me for being dense, but if they're being offered settlement in full, what grounds could they have to reject the deal anyway?

 

[Grendel]

You get -15pts for a second time in admin

If this deal isn't ratified by the creditors voting or then the league nothing changes.

No you get - 15 points for an involuntary CVA that is a standard football league rule that has affected Leeds and Southampton to name but 2.

 

[Godiva]

Foegive me for being dense, but if they're being offered settlement in full, what grounds could they have to reject the deal anyway?

There's still the lease ... we don't know how it's in play.

 

[Paxman II]

I think both sides are as devious and dastardly as each other!

Are Haskell and co whirling around in the background with the likes of ACL trying their dammedest to scupper SISU and the football club in order to gain control still? What dastardly plan do they have batman?

Don't we all want the football club to play at the Ricoh (for now at least) and get on with the season ahead?

 

[Grendel]

Why are you so aggressive in your replies?

If you disagree with a point, politely say, I disagree and here is why, then put your point forward.

You will find you will get a lot more respect on this board if you stop talking to people like crap just because you disagree with them.

Get respect - grow up. It was no more aggressive than him saying nope to a poster who was 100% right.

 

[Covcraig@bury]

Q, how will ACL have enough votes ?

 

[Godiva]

Even if he's right, it will not stop the takeover eventually as it will no doubt be another court battle to get the nod - & the FL will still capitulate & welcome Otium to the fold because it is the easy option for them.

Or maybe there are no evidense they can use to reject their F&T certification.

 

[bigfatronssba]

I think both sides are as devious and dastardly as each other!

Are Haskell and co whirling around in the background with the likes of ACL trying their dammedest to scupper SISU and the football club in order to gain control still? What dastardly plan do they have batman?

Don't we all want the football club to play at the Ricoh (for now at least) and get on with the season ahead?

I couldn't care less about next season to be honest, its already a write off anyway.

What is important professional football in Coventry for the next 50-100 years.

 

[bigfatronssba]

Get respect - grow up. It was no more aggressive than him saying nope to a poster who was 100% right.

Again, you disagree with me, fine, but what's with the grow up comment?

 

[Paxman II]

I couldn't care less about next season to be honest, its already a write off anyway.

What is important professional football in Coventry for the next 50-100 years.

You couldn't care less? Wow. I do and there must be tens of thousands like me who do and want football next season and watch their beloved Sky Blues, regardless of who the hell owns them.
Despicable owners will come and go and as you say there will hopefully be a Sky Blues still in Coventry in 50 and 100 years from now long after SISU have departed, which they will inevitably.

 

[Grendel]

Again, you disagree with me, fine, but what's with the grow up comment?

You tell me I need to explain why. ACL Coventry dismisses out of hand a poster who is 100% correct. That is ok then?

 

[robbieray]

Acl are powerless. Read my lips: We will be playing in the ricoh from the first game of the season. Once these arsehole big fliers have stopped showing off their misplaced power. It will all be lovey dovey soon. Youll see!! Joint news conference by sisu and coventry city council/acl to be called in next 3 weeks! Read my lips

He's right we will be at the Ricoh , not enough time to go anywhere else

 

[duffer]

This is down to the unconnected creditors rule. SISU/Otium are connected creditors because they are linked companies, so even though they've somehow managed to lard £60m of debt onto a non-trading subsiduary, they don't get the final say on the CVA because ACL are the main unconnected creditors. 50% of unconnected creditors have to vote to accept a CVA. I think the rule is in place to stop exactly what SISU are trying to do.

ACL would obviously want to force the administrator to look at an alternative bidder, because of SISU's plan to move out of Coventry and the Ricoh. In the long term that's clearly not in their interests, or I'd argue as a fan, ours.

 

[Grendel]

This is down to the unconnected creditors rule. SISU/Otium are connected creditors because they are linked companies, so even though they've somehow managed to lard £60m of debt onto a non-trading subsiduary, they don't get the final say on the CVA because ACL are the main unconnected creditors. 50% of unconnected creditors have to vote to accept a CVA. I think the rule is in place to stop exactly what SISU are trying to do.

ACL would obviously want to force the administrator to look at an alternative bidder, because of SISU's plan to move out of Coventry and the Ricoh. In the long term that's clearly not in their interests, or I'd argue as a fan, ours.

However there is nothing to stop a non voluntary CVA is there?

 

[NorthernWisdom]

You couldn't care less? Wow. I do and there must be tens of thousands like me who do and want football next season and watch their beloved Sky Blues, regardless of who the hell owns them.
Despicable owners will come and go and as you say there will hopefully be a Sky Blues still in Coventry in 50 and 100 years from now long after SISU have departed, which they will inevitably.

He has a point though, next season and instant success (or failure!) isn't really an issue in the wider scheme of things.

 

[bigfatronssba]

You couldn't care less? Wow. I do and there must be tens of thousands like me who do and want football next season and watch their beloved Sky Blues, regardless of who the hell owns them.
Despicable owners will come and go and as you say there will hopefully be a Sky Blues still in Coventry in 50 and 100 years from now long after SISU have departed, which they will inevitably.

So you wouldn't sacrifice next season in order to sort the club out long term?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

They won't reject it if they're offered all the debt repaid.

 

[duffer]

However there is nothing to stop a non voluntary CVA is there?

Probably not, except there's no such thing. There may be other routes out of admin, but it's the Administrator's first duty to save the company as a going concern. Could it be that this forces him to consider an alternative?

 

[duffer]

They won't reject it if they're offered all the debt repaid.

With respect, says who? Financially ACL are clearly better off going for a bidder who doesn't intend to move away from the Ricoh.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

You get busy for a couple of hours and then shit gets real...

 

[hill83]

So you wouldn't sacrifice next season in order to sort the club out long term?

It's not an either/or situation. Sadly the aim this season should initially be to stay up.

 

[Steve_75]

Big gamble time for ACL. Accept the CVA, take the cash they're owed, incur the wrath of the fans for allowing SISU to continue but long term, unlikely to have a club at the arena, possibly leading to contractual issues with Ricoh/Compass etc (unless something suddenly happens and they can allow the club to take the F&B income that Compass get.
Or, they reject the CVA, possibly incurring the wrath of the fans as it could wind up with the club coming out of admin without a CVA in place but with a further points deduction, or at least delaying things so we have no chance of any new signings this transfer window. If they are lucky, then I guess maybe, one of the other bidders is given a shot which could result in new owners, playing at the Ricoh and happy fans (and a happy ACL). But with the way things have gone so far, I could see Otium still ending up as owners, points deduction, not playing at the Ricoh, no new signings until at least January (if we're not back under an embargo by then).
The way I see it, ACL can't win.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

With respect, says who? Financially ACL are clearly better off going for a bidder who doesn't intend to move away from the Ricoh.

I don't care anymore. SISU are happy to take us anywhere and to any level of football to spite ACL. Who cares if the SISU investors put in millions more, there's a stadium company to spite and football fans to humiliate.

 

[valiant15]

I don't care anymore. SISU are happy to take us anywhere and to any level of football to spite ACL. Who cares if the SISU investors put in millions more, there's a stadium company to spite and football fans to humiliate.

Bang on the money imo. Its all got a bit personal for sisu because of a pokey little company in Coventry who've dared to stand up to them.

 

[chiefdave]

what I found interesting was Les Reids tweet saying the administrators report indicated that if the CVA wasn't approved they would liquidate. couple of thoughts spring to mind.

Firstly there are other buyers in interested so why would you liquidate if the bid from your initial preferred bidder fails (a tactic to force ACL to accept?).

Secondly I thought you could apply to the court to come out of admin without a CVA (I guess essentially the court approving the deal the creditors refused). Is there something in the proposal from Otium Appleton believes the court won't accept and so wants to avoid that scenario?

 

[blend]

However there is nothing to stop a non voluntary CVA is there?

What is a non voluntary Company Voluntary Arrangement - doesn't make sense. I think what you are getting at is if SISU somehow come out of administration without a CVA like Leeds did. This cannot really be forced upon them by ACL though can it?

Duffer has it spot on, it's the 50% of unconnected creditors. Of course the lease comes into it - why wouldn't ACL want to block a CVA that pays them in full but then will undoubtably see the lease for the Arena broken with no payment? As a question doesn't a CVA have to include the payment of future debt, or would liquidation supersede this and then it would no longer be classed as future debt?

Is this ACL posturing for some more money from what is owed to them, or is it part of a far bigger plan?

 

[Lord_Nampil]

Big gamble time for ACL. Accept the CVA, take the cash they're owed, incur the wrath of the fans for allowing SISU to continue but long term, unlikely to have a club at the arena, possibly leading to contractual issues with Ricoh/Compass etc (unless something suddenly happens and they can allow the club to take the F&B income that Compass get.
Or, they reject the CVA, possibly incurring the wrath of the fans as it could wind up with the club coming out of admin without a CVA in place but with a further points deduction, or at least delaying things so we have no chance of any new signings this transfer window. If they are lucky, then I guess maybe, one of the other bidders is given a shot which could result in new owners, playing at the Ricoh and happy fans (and a happy ACL). But with the way things have gone so far, I could see Otium still ending up as owners, points deduction, not playing at the Ricoh, no new signings until at least January (if we're not back under an embargo by then).
The way I see it, ACL can't win.

Nails and heads come to mind!!!

IMO ACL have to negotiate a 3 yr deal, then in the next 3 yrs they will have to plan for life without the club! Think building a new stadium is the only way this is going!!!

 

[Godiva]

what I found interesting was Les Reids tweet saying the administrators report indicated that if the CVA wasn't approved they would liquidate. couple of thoughts spring to mind.

Firstly there are other buyers in interested so why would you liquidate if the bid from your initial preferred bidder fails (a tactic to force ACL to accept?).

Secondly I thought you could apply to the court to come out of admin without a CVA (I guess essentially the court approving the deal the creditors refused). Is there something in the proposal from Otium Appleton believes the court won't accept and so wants to avoid that scenario?

I think as the administrator has now sold the company to Otium they're the new owners and it will be their decision to liquidate or not.

It will not liquidate the club as Otium is buying Holdings and unite all football related matters in one company. Otium will be granted the golden share.

The lease is the unknown card.

ACL have the option to not sign the CVA - and thereby inflict a minus 15 point penalty on the club. Then Otium will liquidate limited and effectively break the lease - no more money to ACL and they will also get in trouble with Compass etc.

So it's a barganing - ACL want sisu to keep the club at the Ricoh, and sisu want to own the stadium the club is playing in.
There IS a deal there - several actually.
The best for the club and the fans is ACL becomming part of the club. Even under sisu ownership.
Another option is the club plays for three years at the Ricoh while building a new stadium.
Those two options can be reached without the club starting on -15 points.

The third is the worst option for all parties - the fans, the club, sisu, ACL and all businesses at the Ricoh ... that's the option where ACL reject the CVA, limited is liquidated, the club starts at -15 point, groundshare for three years and then move into the new stadium.

 

[Otis]

If we stay in admin at least we still have the offer to play at the Ricoh all season.

 

[cashless]

I know. Still at least I'm not the sort of person who randomly calls people abusive names on a football forum because they have a different political opinion to me. Imagine that!

unless its Tim Fisher of course...mind you, you tories love a bit of hedge fund action

 

[cashless]

Because he's a c**t

YOU are a c**t

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

Perhaps I might have a bit of sympathy with you if you didnt share your wanky right wing bollocks underneath every fucking post.

I'm ideologically diametrically opposed to him and that quote, yet I agree with almost everything he says yet rarely with you. Figure that one out!

 

[wingy]

If we stay in admin at least we still have the offer to play at the Ricoh all season.

Seems like the best possible outcome to me.SISU get a free season and Breakeven we see our team in the ground built for them. Alternatively they run us on their terms and lose up to 70% of the fanbase and a significant future generation.