A question of taste or bias? (1 Viewer)

Grendel · Jun 13, 2019

What’s worse do you think - putting a picture of a monkey as the royal baby or saying you should pour battery acid over right wing politicians?

Which deserves the sack more?

Would Jim Davison have been defended so vigorously if he’d said it about Jeremy Corbyn or would we have had a different response to the alleged comedian Jo Brands comments?

Evo1883 · Jun 13, 2019

Grendel said:
What’s worse do you think - putting a picture of a monkey as the royal baby or saying you should pour battery acid over right wing politicians?

Which deserves the sack more?

Would Jim Davison have been defended so vigorously if he’d said it about Jeremy Corbyn or would we have had a different response to the alleged comedian Jo Brands comments?

Personally I see jokes for what they are, as much as I can't stand the talentless Jo brand I don't believe she was Inciting violence.

However the BBC have already come out to back her, but people have lost their high profile jobs for much less.

Either way their is huge inconsistentcy in what people seem to find offensive or not.

The answer to your question is... If Jim Davidson said it, the backlash would have been far more severe

rob9872 · Jun 13, 2019

Tbh neither should be sacked imo. I didn't find either of the 'jokes' funny, but that's clearly what they were supposed to be. Misguided and tasteless possibly but lots of people getting overly sensitive and losing their shit on both issues.

Otis · Jun 13, 2019

Yup. Neither of them should be sacked.

If we go down that route Frankie Boyle would be serving 12 life sentences by now.

Grendel · Jun 13, 2019

Otis said:
Yup. Neither of them should be sacked.

If we go down that route Frankie Boyle would be serving 12 life sentences by now.

Do you honestly think if the same “joke” was aimed at Jeremy Corbyn the reaction would be the same? I don’t

rob9872 · Jun 13, 2019

Grendel said:
Do you honestly think if the same “joke” was aimed at Jeremy Corbyn the reaction would be the same? I don’t

I agree, but it doesn't make it right all the same and my opinion would be constant. Clearly no I tent on any side as far as I can tell.

Otis · Jun 13, 2019

Grendel said:
Do you honestly think if the same “joke” was aimed at Jeremy Corbyn the reaction would be the same? I don’t

Probably not, but a joke is a joke. I don't mind Jo Brand myself and that joke COULD have been funny, but not in this current climate, so it was very ill advised at best.

It does make Danny Baker's sacking look ridiculous though

chiefdave · Jun 13, 2019

I can't stand either of them so have no issue with them not being on TV or radio anymore!

Context is key here. Baker supposedly has a history of posting old pictures often featuring monkeys as some sort of comment on the state of the media. As much as I find that totally unfunny if its true then to sack him just because he post one about the royals is out of order. And of course he's sacking brings up the matter of consistency, seems more a case the BBC wanted rid and this gave them a convenient excuse.

As for Brand she isn't a BBC employee is she? The comments were made on a show called Heresy where the idea seems to be the 'hilarious' concept of taking the indefensible and having 'comedians' defend it. That being the case she's not really expressing an opinion, more playing a role. I understand that in the past this show has had defences of things like terrorist attacks and Hitler. To me raises more questions about how shit like this gets commissioned and what editor, given it isn't live, thought it was a good idea to leave that in.

I do wonder how many of those outraged are follows of Bakers on twitter or listeners of rubbish Radio 4 shows.

clint van damme · Jun 13, 2019

Grendel said:
Do you honestly think if the same “joke” was aimed at Jeremy Corbyn the reaction would be the same? I don’t

someone got up at that Jewish group meeting, (can't remember the name but it's one of the right wing Jewish groups), and were talking about assassinating Corbyn and it hardly got mentioned..

I don't think there is any left wing or right wing bias to this issue. People are now pouring over every word that people they don't agree with say to try and kick off about it it's embarrassing.
To slightly contradict myself I do think politicians should probably be held to a higher level of responsibility in what they say.

Ian1779 · Jun 13, 2019

Grendel said:
Do you honestly think if the same “joke” was aimed at Jeremy Corbyn the reaction would be the same? I don’t

I think maybe the difference is that 'right wing politician' is still generic, but naming a single person is focused on that individual. Using Corbyn as an example doesn't really back up your point though, because he was attacked by someone and it went virtually undetected in the media.

I don't really think sacking needed to happen in either case, although I think they were in bad taste - an apology would have been sufficient.

Grendel · Jun 13, 2019

Ian1779 said:
I think maybe the difference is that 'right wing politician' is still generic, but naming a single person is focused on that individual. Using Corbyn as an example doesn't really back up your point though, because he was attacked by someone and it went virtually undetected in the media.

I don't really think sacking needed to happen in either case, although I think they were in bad taste - an apology would have been sufficient.

I don’t believe for one minute if Jim Davidson has said it in a left wing context he would not have been sacked instantly if he was a BBC contracted comedian at the time

Ian1779 · Jun 13, 2019

Grendel said:
I don’t believe for one minute if Jim Davidson has said it in a left wing context he would not have been sacked instantly if he was a BBC contracted comedian at the time

What I do think is that if that was the case, there would be a far bigger outrage in social media circles. Now whether that is the factor that influences decisions like this I don't know.

OffenhamSkyBlue · Jun 13, 2019

I thought Jo Brand had grown up a bit in recent years, and would know better than to spout this kind of hatred, whether directed at a specific individual or not.
Ask the amazing inspirational Katie Piper whether she saw the funny side.
When the National Police Chiefs' Council and numerous other organisations are trying to develop initiatives to combat the rise in acid attacks, Brand's attempt at humour is utterly misguided!
But you know the thing that annoyed me more? The fact that 5Live Breakfast didn't only REPORT on it, but fucking PLAYED the clip on a number of occasions this morning.
And someone says "you shouldn't listen to it out of context"? Seriously, in what context WOULD that be remotely acceptable.
I agree with Farage (christ i don't say that very often) in that this is incitement to commit GBH.
But i agree with Chief that the commissioners of this programme should be held to account. I wonder how many pensioners it takes to pay for that proportion of the licence fee?

fellatio_Martinez · Jun 13, 2019

A joke is a joke and shouldn't be taken seriously. It's the whole point of a joke. Some are silly, some are dirty and others are dark and twisted but they're all intended to provoke a laugh.

The problem is that if someone left wing says a acerbic joke aimed at middle England or right wingers then it's brushed off as a joke but the other way around it's labeled hateful and problematic.

The world is a shitty place for balance at the moment.

SIR ERNIE · Jun 13, 2019

Jo Brand is a repugnant individual who typifies a sneering, hate-filled section of society.
In the interests of consistency if nothing else, of course she should be sacked.

Deleted member 5849 · Jun 13, 2019

What do you sack Jo Brand from? Danny Baker was sacked from his radio show, but I don't think it stops him being a guest on other programmes such as this one, if invited?

Grendel · Jun 13, 2019

Deleted member 5849 said:
What do you sack Jo Brand from? Danny Baker was sacked from his radio show, but I don't think it stops him being a guest on other programmes such as this one, if invited?

Danny Baker was interviewed by the police. I assume you’d expect the alleged comedian to face the same fate?

And she can in the interests of decency be banned by the BBC going forward. Bernard Manning was less offensive than this ugly bitch (that’s a joke of course and not meant to offend)

Deleted member 5849 · Jun 13, 2019

I see it very much like the Jeremy Clarkson 'furore' when he said he'd have public sector workers shot... but it was obvious to anyone with half a brain it was a joke.

The same applies here to Brand.

Clarkson wasn't sacked for that, and nor should he have been.

oakey · Jun 13, 2019

Jo Brand is probably my favourite living comedian but on this occasion she has crossed a line and should apologise.
The conventions of comedy which make offensive remarks permissible within the context of a performance and not aimed at an individual, however, make sacking her unacceptable.
We are living through strange times when our attitudes to free speech, comedy, hate speech and satire are all symptoms of how divided we have become.

Grendel · Jun 13, 2019

Deleted member 5849 said:
I see it very much like the Jeremy Clarkson 'furore' when he said he'd have public sector workers shot... but it was obvious to anyone with half a brain it was a joke.

The same applies here to Brand.

Clarkson wasn't sacked for that, and nor should he have been.

It’s not the same as I know for a fact if it was said against the liberal left he’d have been sacked - do you think she should go and be educated on acid attack victims and how their lives have been impacted?

Do you think baker should have been sacked for his joke?

Deleted member 5849 · Jun 13, 2019

Grendel said:
It’s not the same as I know for a fact if it was said against the liberal left he’d have been sacked

So why wasn't Jeremy Clarkson sacked for that?

He wasn't.

SkyblueBazza · Jun 13, 2019

Free-speech isn't it? Farage himself has made plenty of provocative/inflammatory comments & had plenty of bad stuff said about him. Only the extremely mentally unstable would be incited by what Jo Brand said (or indeed listening to her in the first place!). If THAT easily incited they should be in the care of secure units. Sadly though the politicians thought they cost too much to run so let these sick people roam freely amongst the general public, until they commit such dreadful crimes, instead.

Most of us wherever we sit politically would probably think the 'joke' somewhere between mildly amusing, or somewhat distasteful.

It's only the media picking up on Farage's response (when he'd have been better advised to shrug his shoulders & say nothing) because they positively or negatively lap up anything he says.

As for sacking Brand...she doesn't decide what is/isn't aired - someone at the Beeb should perhaps be asked some uncomfortable questions though. She referred to 'unpleasant characters' in fairness, not Farage especially, which I could easily be pursuaded includes herself!

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Grendel · Jun 13, 2019

Deleted member 5849 said:
So why wasn't Jeremy Clarkson sacked for that?

He wasn't.

Because she was suggesting left with activists could pour battery acid instead of milkshake - do you think she should have a rehabilitation course on the impact of acid attacks?

Do you think Baker should have been sacked?

fellatio_Martinez · Jun 13, 2019

Deleted member 5849 said:
What do you sack Jo Brand from? Danny Baker was sacked from his radio show, but I don't think it stops him being a guest on other programmes such as this one, if invited?

The BBC defended her so they obviously wouldn't have sacked her if she was employed by them.

Grendel · Jun 13, 2019

Deleted member 5849 said:
So why wasn't Jeremy Clarkson sacked for that?

He wasn't.

Because his comments weren’t aimed a left wing politician - Jo Cox would have been resurrected in a second and he’d have gone

oakey · Jun 13, 2019

I think it is correct that we should expect and apply the same standards to all strands of political opinion.
However, some people can dish it out but can't take it. Farage is particularly thin skinned like his mucker, Trump.
Farage said,

But if they don't deliver this Brexit that I spent 25 years of my life working for, then I will be forced to don khaki, pick up a rifle and head for the front lines.
- During a speech regarding the delivery of Brexit, 14 May 2017

Ian1779 · Jun 13, 2019

I think you are trying to make it into more of a left bias than it actually is. Would 'someone' be arguing differently if their political views fell on a different side of the spectrum? (this is me asking a question not making an assertion about you) or maybe I view it in that way because of my place on said spectrum - I don't know.

There is a massive inconsistency in the way these have been handled... but I think that is down to incompetence in the main.

Deleted member 5849 · Jun 13, 2019

Ian1779 said:
I think you are trying to make it into more of a left bias than it actually is.

Typical righty snowflakes if you ask me.

fellatio_Martinez · Jun 13, 2019

oakey said:
I think it is correct that we should expect and apply the same standards to all strands of political opinion.
However, some people can dish it out but can't take it. Farage is particularly thin skinned like his mucker, Trump.
Farage said,

But if they don't deliver this Brexit that I spent 25 years of my life working for, then I will be forced to don khaki, pick up a rifle and head for the front lines.

During a speech regarding the delivery of Brexit, 14 May 2017

This kind of mud slinging is what's wrong with society today.

"well they said something nasty too so it's okay"

Mcbean · Jun 13, 2019

We are all backing ourselves into a corner where no humour is acceptable - sad to see - people getting offended on behalf of others - it seems we have to governed by the minority’s - I am speechless

clint van damme · Jun 13, 2019

Mcbean said:
We are all backing ourselves into a corner where no humour is acceptable - sad to see - people getting offended on behalf of others - it seems we have to governed by the minority’s - I am speechless

What minorities? Isn't the thrust of this debate centred around people from different ends of the political spectrum.

fernandopartridge · Jun 13, 2019

Grendel said:
What’s worse do you think - putting a picture of a monkey as the royal baby or saying you should pour battery acid over right wing politicians?

Which deserves the sack more?

Would Jim Davison have been defended so vigorously if he’d said it about Jeremy Corbyn or would we have had a different response to the alleged comedian Jo Brands comments?

Neither probably deserve the sack, I think the calls for Jo Brand to be 'sacked' because Danny Baker was are stupid. I disagreed with the sacking of Danny Baker.

Mcbean · Jun 13, 2019

I am old and grumpy but it just seems that there are those who are less thick skinned than i am - i was brought up to keep my opinions on others to myself - and accept that others may have a different opinion - but that should'nt allow them to make a choice for me based on how loud they shout and how offended they are .

Ian1779 · Jun 13, 2019

For example look at the things Boris has said in the last couple of years - 'picaninnies' 'Muslim women in their veils looking like letterboxes' - is that bad humour/poor taste, simply racism, or just people that aren't thick skinned being offended?

clint van damme · Jun 13, 2019

Mcbean said:
I am old and grumpy but it just seems that there are those who are less thick skinned than i am - i was brought up to keep my opinions on others to myself - and accept that others may have a different opinion - but that should'nt allow them to make a choice for me based on how loud they shout and how offended they are .

I think part of the problem now is that for most people your audience used to be half a dozen mates down the pub.
Bow with social media you can reach a very wide audience and what you say stays on record.

A question of taste or bias? (1 Viewer)

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