A question of taste or bias?

Discussion in 'Off Topic Chat' started by Grendel, Jun 13, 2019 at 1:00 PM.

  1. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    What’s worse do you think - putting a picture of a monkey as the royal baby or saying you should pour battery acid over right wing politicians?

    Which deserves the sack more?

    Would Jim Davison have been defended so vigorously if he’d said it about Jeremy Corbyn or would we have had a different response to the alleged comedian Jo Brands comments?
     
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  2. Evo1883

    Evo1883 Well-Known Member

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    Personally I see jokes for what they are, as much as I can't stand the talentless Jo brand I don't believe she was Inciting violence.

    However the BBC have already come out to back her, but people have lost their high profile jobs for much less.

    Either way their is huge inconsistentcy in what people seem to find offensive or not.

    The answer to your question is... If Jim Davidson said it, the backlash would have been far more severe
     
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  3. rob9872

    rob9872 Well-Known Member

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    Tbh neither should be sacked imo. I didn't find either of the 'jokes' funny, but that's clearly what they were supposed to be. Misguided and tasteless possibly but lots of people getting overly sensitive and losing their shit on both issues.
     
  4. Otis

    Otis Well-Known Member

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    Yup. Neither of them should be sacked.

    If we go down that route Frankie Boyle would be serving 12 life sentences by now.
     
  5. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    Do you honestly think if the same “joke” was aimed at Jeremy Corbyn the reaction would be the same? I don’t
     
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  6. rob9872

    rob9872 Well-Known Member

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    I agree, but it doesn't make it right all the same and my opinion would be constant. Clearly no I tent on any side as far as I can tell.
     
  7. Otis

    Otis Well-Known Member

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    Probably not, but a joke is a joke. I don't mind Jo Brand myself and that joke COULD have been funny, but not in this current climate, so it was very ill advised at best.

    It does make Danny Baker's sacking look ridiculous though
     
  8. chiefdave

    chiefdave Well-Known Member

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    I can't stand either of them so have no issue with them not being on TV or radio anymore!

    Context is key here. Baker supposedly has a history of posting old pictures often featuring monkeys as some sort of comment on the state of the media. As much as I find that totally unfunny if its true then to sack him just because he post one about the royals is out of order. And of course he's sacking brings up the matter of consistency, seems more a case the BBC wanted rid and this gave them a convenient excuse.

    As for Brand she isn't a BBC employee is she? The comments were made on a show called Heresy where the idea seems to be the 'hilarious' concept of taking the indefensible and having 'comedians' defend it. That being the case she's not really expressing an opinion, more playing a role. I understand that in the past this show has had defences of things like terrorist attacks and Hitler. To me raises more questions about how shit like this gets commissioned and what editor, given it isn't live, thought it was a good idea to leave that in.

    I do wonder how many of those outraged are follows of Bakers on twitter or listeners of rubbish Radio 4 shows.
     
  9. clint van damme

    clint van damme Well-Known Member

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    someone got up at that Jewish group meeting, (can't remember the name but it's one of the right wing Jewish groups), and were talking about assassinating Corbyn and it hardly got mentioned..

    I don't think there is any left wing or right wing bias to this issue. People are now pouring over every word that people they don't agree with say to try and kick off about it it's embarrassing.
    To slightly contradict myself I do think politicians should probably be held to a higher level of responsibility in what they say.
     
  10. Ian1779

    Ian1779 Well-Known Member

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    I think maybe the difference is that 'right wing politician' is still generic, but naming a single person is focused on that individual. Using Corbyn as an example doesn't really back up your point though, because he was attacked by someone and it went virtually undetected in the media.

    I don't really think sacking needed to happen in either case, although I think they were in bad taste - an apology would have been sufficient.
     
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  11. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    I don’t believe for one minute if Jim Davidson has said it in a left wing context he would not have been sacked instantly if he was a BBC contracted comedian at the time
     
  12. Ian1779

    Ian1779 Well-Known Member

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    What I do think is that if that was the case, there would be a far bigger outrage in social media circles. Now whether that is the factor that influences decisions like this I don't know.
     
  13. OffenhamSkyBlue

    OffenhamSkyBlue Well-Known Member

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    I thought Jo Brand had grown up a bit in recent years, and would know better than to spout this kind of hatred, whether directed at a specific individual or not.
    Ask the amazing inspirational Katie Piper whether she saw the funny side.
    When the National Police Chiefs' Council and numerous other organisations are trying to develop initiatives to combat the rise in acid attacks, Brand's attempt at humour is utterly misguided!
    But you know the thing that annoyed me more? The fact that 5Live Breakfast didn't only REPORT on it, but fucking PLAYED the clip on a number of occasions this morning.
    And someone says "you shouldn't listen to it out of context"? Seriously, in what context WOULD that be remotely acceptable.
    I agree with Farage (christ i don't say that very often) in that this is incitement to commit GBH.
    But i agree with Chief that the commissioners of this programme should be held to account. I wonder how many pensioners it takes to pay for that proportion of the licence fee?
     
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  14. fellatio_Martinez

    fellatio_Martinez Well-Known Member

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    A joke is a joke and shouldn't be taken seriously. It's the whole point of a joke. Some are silly, some are dirty and others are dark and twisted but they're all intended to provoke a laugh.

    The problem is that if someone left wing says a acerbic joke aimed at middle England or right wingers then it's brushed off as a joke but the other way around it's labeled hateful and problematic.

    The world is a shitty place for balance at the moment.
     
  15. SIR ERNIE

    SIR ERNIE Well-Known Member

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    Jo Brand is a repugnant individual who typifies a sneering, hate-filled section of society.
    In the interests of consistency if nothing else, of course she should be sacked.
     
  16. NorthernWisdom

    NorthernWisdom Well-Known Member

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    What do you sack Jo Brand from? Danny Baker was sacked from his radio show, but I don't think it stops him being a guest on other programmes such as this one, if invited?
     
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  17. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    Danny Baker was interviewed by the police. I assume you’d expect the alleged comedian to face the same fate?

    And she can in the interests of decency be banned by the BBC going forward. Bernard Manning was less offensive than this ugly bitch (that’s a joke of course and not meant to offend)
     
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  18. NorthernWisdom

    NorthernWisdom Well-Known Member

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    I see it very much like the Jeremy Clarkson 'furore' when he said he'd have public sector workers shot... but it was obvious to anyone with half a brain it was a joke.

    The same applies here to Brand.

    Clarkson wasn't sacked for that, and nor should he have been.
     
  19. oakey

    oakey Well-Known Member

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    Jo Brand is probably my favourite living comedian but on this occasion she has crossed a line and should apologise.
    The conventions of comedy which make offensive remarks permissible within the context of a performance and not aimed at an individual, however, make sacking her unacceptable.
    We are living through strange times when our attitudes to free speech, comedy, hate speech and satire are all symptoms of how divided we have become.
     
  20. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    It’s not the same as I know for a fact if it was said against the liberal left he’d have been sacked - do you think she should go and be educated on acid attack victims and how their lives have been impacted?

    Do you think baker should have been sacked for his joke?
     
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  21. NorthernWisdom

    NorthernWisdom Well-Known Member

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    So why wasn't Jeremy Clarkson sacked for that?

    He wasn't.
     
  22. SkyblueBazza

    SkyblueBazza Well-Known Member

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    Free-speech isn't it? Farage himself has made plenty of provocative/inflammatory comments & had plenty of bad stuff said about him. Only the extremely mentally unstable would be incited by what Jo Brand said (or indeed listening to her in the first place!). If THAT easily incited they should be in the care of secure units. Sadly though the politicians thought they cost too much to run so let these sick people roam freely amongst the general public, until they commit such dreadful crimes, instead.

    Most of us wherever we sit politically would probably think the 'joke' somewhere between mildly amusing, or somewhat distasteful.

    It's only the media picking up on Farage's response (when he'd have been better advised to shrug his shoulders & say nothing) because they positively or negatively lap up anything he says.

    As for sacking Brand...she doesn't decide what is/isn't aired - someone at the Beeb should perhaps be asked some uncomfortable questions though. She referred to 'unpleasant characters' in fairness, not Farage especially, which I could easily be pursuaded includes herself!

    Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
     
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  23. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    Because she was suggesting left with activists could pour battery acid instead of milkshake - do you think she should have a rehabilitation course on the impact of acid attacks?

    Do you think Baker should have been sacked?
     
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  24. fellatio_Martinez

    fellatio_Martinez Well-Known Member

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    The BBC defended her so they obviously wouldn't have sacked her if she was employed by them.
     
  25. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    Because his comments weren’t aimed a left wing politician - Jo Cox would have been resurrected in a second and he’d have gone
     
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  26. oakey

    oakey Well-Known Member

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    I think it is correct that we should expect and apply the same standards to all strands of political opinion.
    However, some people can dish it out but can't take it. Farage is particularly thin skinned like his mucker, Trump.
    Farage said,
     
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  27. Ian1779

    Ian1779 Well-Known Member

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    I think you are trying to make it into more of a left bias than it actually is. Would 'someone' be arguing differently if their political views fell on a different side of the spectrum? (this is me asking a question not making an assertion about you) or maybe I view it in that way because of my place on said spectrum - I don't know.

    There is a massive inconsistency in the way these have been handled... but I think that is down to incompetence in the main.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019 at 3:57 PM
  28. NorthernWisdom

    NorthernWisdom Well-Known Member

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    Typical righty snowflakes if you ask me.
     
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  29. fellatio_Martinez

    fellatio_Martinez Well-Known Member

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    This kind of mud slinging is what's wrong with society today.

    "well they said something nasty too so it's okay"
     
  30. Mcbean

    Mcbean Well-Known Member

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    We are all backing ourselves into a corner where no humour is acceptable - sad to see - people getting offended on behalf of others - it seems we have to governed by the minority’s - I am speechless
     
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  31. clint van damme

    clint van damme Well-Known Member

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    What minorities? Isn't the thrust of this debate centred around people from different ends of the political spectrum.
     
  32. fernandopartridge

    fernandopartridge Well-Known Member

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    Neither probably deserve the sack, I think the calls for Jo Brand to be 'sacked' because Danny Baker was are stupid. I disagreed with the sacking of Danny Baker.
     
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  33. Mcbean

    Mcbean Well-Known Member

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    I am old and grumpy but it just seems that there are those who are less thick skinned than i am - i was brought up to keep my opinions on others to myself - and accept that others may have a different opinion - but that should'nt allow them to make a choice for me based on how loud they shout and how offended they are .
     
  34. Ian1779

    Ian1779 Well-Known Member

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    For example look at the things Boris has said in the last couple of years - 'picaninnies' 'Muslim women in their veils looking like letterboxes' - is that bad humour/poor taste, simply racism, or just people that aren't thick skinned being offended?
     
  35. clint van damme

    clint van damme Well-Known Member

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    I think part of the problem now is that for most people your audience used to be half a dozen mates down the pub.
    Bow with social media you can reach a very wide audience and what you say stays on record.
     

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