oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Would like to stick to what we actually know but as is usual there is very little the fans actually know for certain. Yes the only people that know what is going on are a small group at SISU head quarters and at ACL, but even they dont know fully what the other is doing. So what follows is my own personal take on things nothing more, after taking a deep breath then trying to step back to look at it
SISU. Got to be honest when told of SISU putting the club into administration I was confused, then when i saw the statement issued I thought you clever b's because it is a simple clever move that is risky but could work, then I looked at it further and heard that the league share could be with CCFC Ltd and thought bloody hell you clowns if true. So right now I am in the same place I was 7 days ago ....... thinking what the hell next. The legal wrangling over this will go on for a while yet. Does it all fill me with faith that SISU have the best interests of the fans (they are the essence or club of any club) at heart - no. Hedge funds only have one focus - making money for their clients, CCFC is not a client. But right now I have little faith in what TF & co are doing because every time they do something, say something, something slse counters or disproves it. They may be clever and right but at what cost to CCFC - the club is what matters to me
CCFC appears to be a "franchise" to the owners (is Brody still involved?). They believe that they can move it here or there with impunity and improve finances yet to me i only see less income more cost and debt. That they can move fixtures, assets, trade as they feel fit and that fans will just accept it. Certainly the greater populace of Coventry whilst interested do not actually demonstrate support, many have simply turned their backs and gone "not again that club is a mess why bother". repeatedly SISU have paid lip service to the fans and demonstrated little connection/consideration to the single most important asset they have
CCFC/CCFCH Well it seems that CCFC Ltd is only a non trading property subsidiary and yet not 9 months ago it was "engaged in the playing activities of a professional football club" (from directors report 2011 accounts signed 19/06/12) CCFC H were engaged in " a holding company and some of the commercial activities of a professional football club". CCFC Limited employed all the staff on and off the pitch and the lease was paid by CCFC H before being recharged to CCFC Ltd. How things have changed apparently
- CCFC Ltd is non trading that deals with the rent
- CCFCH does all the running of the club except the rent
questions
- how was the fact that CCFC was non trading missed by auditors last June because they had to consider a period of at least 12 months from 19/06/12 in their assessment
- who was paying the VAT and PAYE to HMRC and up until when because that indicates when this transfer of assets took place
- clearly in June 2012 the directors (including TF and ML) thought CCFC Ltd was the playing part in their directors report
- Surely the only interest the FL have is in the playing side at that playing side is inextricably linked to the "golden share" and can not be transferred or held elsewhere without their permission. How can who owns it even be in doubt? Shouldnt the League be keeping a public register? If they colluded with the club in rearranging things are the FL exposed to a legal challenge?
- Clearly what has gone on is designed only to break the lease and evade payment of back rent. Is it legal ? is it arguable that it is a device to defraud creditors? Can the FL allow that precedent to be set ? Does it bring the club into disrepute in the Leagues eyes with bigger penalties? or is it clever, the FL cant do anything and no penalties?
- Are CCFC and CCFCH so inextricably linked that it doesnt matter which goes into liquidation there is a penalty
- If CCFC and CCFCH were making losses with huge debts previously as a sub group of the set up, how does putting it all in one company make it solvent and profitable? How does paying rent elsewhere, increasing costs, reducing income for 3 years make the situation better or the company solvent?
- how do auditors sign the 2012 accounts off any time soon...... as it stands we have a ground to play in somewhere until end of season but then what? The football league will i guess have agreed till end of season to play elsewhere but then what ?
- At first look given ACL reaction yesterday SISU made the club homeless themselves I suspect FL wont be too impressed by that threat to the integrity of the competition. SISU are on intent on that course and have cleared the shop but if it doesnt work
then what ?
ACL I think they expected something but everything they thought they knew maybe led them not to expect what happened. They will take their time in their response. In the meantime they have said they are happy for CCFC to use the Ricoh to fulfill the home fixtures this season...... to many people (including the FL) that makes it seem that SISU took the club away from the stadium. In taking their action to petition for administration they had effectively written off the back rent, they simply were not going to get it. What has happened is that SISU's action may have broken the lease (it may not have) that may also be used to ACL's advantage. Certainly if they prevail and a new owner brought in then a brand new lease will have to be put in place to make the venture attractive. In time there might be no lease but I do not see that as a first step.
Clearly ACL are not as skilled media wise, it was never their intention to be at the forefront of that, quite rightly media attention should always have been on the playing side of CCFC. On the business side then people under estimate them because they are owned by a charity and council..... strangely even charities and councils can buy in expertise. Can they survive without CCFC, who knows ? but we may be about to find out
Can ACL work with CCFC under SISU or vice versa I seriously doubt it. There is no trust. I doubt that the F&B's are on the table for SISU even if a rent can be agreed. Both sides have said that the rent proposed at 29/01/13 was acceptable so should still be acceptable. There will have to be some sort of rent deposit anyone who thinks otherwise ignores what has gone on. Did SISU risk more cost, lower income, no home for the sake of the F&B's kind of beggars belief doesnt it
Sky Blue Supporters Trust Not sure what some folk expect from these guys. They are well meaning people with their club totally at their heart. They give their time (a lot of it) for free and put themselves out there to be shot at when others simply cant be bothered. Are they media savvy - no why would they be they are ordinary fans they are learning as they are going along. Do they have funds or expertise to buy or run the club - no, nor do they expect to. What they want is for the fans to have a voice and to matter to the owners of the club, ideally by fans part ownership but really it shouldnt need that ...... surely the owners of any club realise that fans are the lifeblood of their business, the one thing that gives value to their investment..... dont they? Never going to please everyone all the time, it is right to question what they say and do but some of the abuse leaves a nasty taste for me
Most of what is going on makes little sense to me commercially. Want income streams buy them, want ownership buy it, want to prosper work together. See precious little evidence of that. In the meantime the club gets smaller and smaller buried in greater and greater debt. The club has never been at greater risk...... yes ACL etc contributed but the decisions that truly affect CCFC have been taken by their owners ..... always has been the case
just my opinions, questions and thoughts with a few facts as is so often the case more questions than answers
SISU. Got to be honest when told of SISU putting the club into administration I was confused, then when i saw the statement issued I thought you clever b's because it is a simple clever move that is risky but could work, then I looked at it further and heard that the league share could be with CCFC Ltd and thought bloody hell you clowns if true. So right now I am in the same place I was 7 days ago ....... thinking what the hell next. The legal wrangling over this will go on for a while yet. Does it all fill me with faith that SISU have the best interests of the fans (they are the essence or club of any club) at heart - no. Hedge funds only have one focus - making money for their clients, CCFC is not a client. But right now I have little faith in what TF & co are doing because every time they do something, say something, something slse counters or disproves it. They may be clever and right but at what cost to CCFC - the club is what matters to me
CCFC appears to be a "franchise" to the owners (is Brody still involved?). They believe that they can move it here or there with impunity and improve finances yet to me i only see less income more cost and debt. That they can move fixtures, assets, trade as they feel fit and that fans will just accept it. Certainly the greater populace of Coventry whilst interested do not actually demonstrate support, many have simply turned their backs and gone "not again that club is a mess why bother". repeatedly SISU have paid lip service to the fans and demonstrated little connection/consideration to the single most important asset they have
CCFC/CCFCH Well it seems that CCFC Ltd is only a non trading property subsidiary and yet not 9 months ago it was "engaged in the playing activities of a professional football club" (from directors report 2011 accounts signed 19/06/12) CCFC H were engaged in " a holding company and some of the commercial activities of a professional football club". CCFC Limited employed all the staff on and off the pitch and the lease was paid by CCFC H before being recharged to CCFC Ltd. How things have changed apparently
- CCFC Ltd is non trading that deals with the rent
- CCFCH does all the running of the club except the rent
questions
- how was the fact that CCFC was non trading missed by auditors last June because they had to consider a period of at least 12 months from 19/06/12 in their assessment
- who was paying the VAT and PAYE to HMRC and up until when because that indicates when this transfer of assets took place
- clearly in June 2012 the directors (including TF and ML) thought CCFC Ltd was the playing part in their directors report
- Surely the only interest the FL have is in the playing side at that playing side is inextricably linked to the "golden share" and can not be transferred or held elsewhere without their permission. How can who owns it even be in doubt? Shouldnt the League be keeping a public register? If they colluded with the club in rearranging things are the FL exposed to a legal challenge?
- Clearly what has gone on is designed only to break the lease and evade payment of back rent. Is it legal ? is it arguable that it is a device to defraud creditors? Can the FL allow that precedent to be set ? Does it bring the club into disrepute in the Leagues eyes with bigger penalties? or is it clever, the FL cant do anything and no penalties?
- Are CCFC and CCFCH so inextricably linked that it doesnt matter which goes into liquidation there is a penalty
- If CCFC and CCFCH were making losses with huge debts previously as a sub group of the set up, how does putting it all in one company make it solvent and profitable? How does paying rent elsewhere, increasing costs, reducing income for 3 years make the situation better or the company solvent?
- how do auditors sign the 2012 accounts off any time soon...... as it stands we have a ground to play in somewhere until end of season but then what? The football league will i guess have agreed till end of season to play elsewhere but then what ?
- At first look given ACL reaction yesterday SISU made the club homeless themselves I suspect FL wont be too impressed by that threat to the integrity of the competition. SISU are on intent on that course and have cleared the shop but if it doesnt work
then what ?
ACL I think they expected something but everything they thought they knew maybe led them not to expect what happened. They will take their time in their response. In the meantime they have said they are happy for CCFC to use the Ricoh to fulfill the home fixtures this season...... to many people (including the FL) that makes it seem that SISU took the club away from the stadium. In taking their action to petition for administration they had effectively written off the back rent, they simply were not going to get it. What has happened is that SISU's action may have broken the lease (it may not have) that may also be used to ACL's advantage. Certainly if they prevail and a new owner brought in then a brand new lease will have to be put in place to make the venture attractive. In time there might be no lease but I do not see that as a first step.
Clearly ACL are not as skilled media wise, it was never their intention to be at the forefront of that, quite rightly media attention should always have been on the playing side of CCFC. On the business side then people under estimate them because they are owned by a charity and council..... strangely even charities and councils can buy in expertise. Can they survive without CCFC, who knows ? but we may be about to find out
Can ACL work with CCFC under SISU or vice versa I seriously doubt it. There is no trust. I doubt that the F&B's are on the table for SISU even if a rent can be agreed. Both sides have said that the rent proposed at 29/01/13 was acceptable so should still be acceptable. There will have to be some sort of rent deposit anyone who thinks otherwise ignores what has gone on. Did SISU risk more cost, lower income, no home for the sake of the F&B's kind of beggars belief doesnt it
Sky Blue Supporters Trust Not sure what some folk expect from these guys. They are well meaning people with their club totally at their heart. They give their time (a lot of it) for free and put themselves out there to be shot at when others simply cant be bothered. Are they media savvy - no why would they be they are ordinary fans they are learning as they are going along. Do they have funds or expertise to buy or run the club - no, nor do they expect to. What they want is for the fans to have a voice and to matter to the owners of the club, ideally by fans part ownership but really it shouldnt need that ...... surely the owners of any club realise that fans are the lifeblood of their business, the one thing that gives value to their investment..... dont they? Never going to please everyone all the time, it is right to question what they say and do but some of the abuse leaves a nasty taste for me
Most of what is going on makes little sense to me commercially. Want income streams buy them, want ownership buy it, want to prosper work together. See precious little evidence of that. In the meantime the club gets smaller and smaller buried in greater and greater debt. The club has never been at greater risk...... yes ACL etc contributed but the decisions that truly affect CCFC have been taken by their owners ..... always has been the case
just my opinions, questions and thoughts with a few facts as is so often the case more questions than answers
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