21/22 Summer transfer mega-thread (3 Viewers)

shmmeee · Aug 5, 2021

COV said:
They are disagreeing, not missing

Its blatantly obvious what he is saying, that nobody thinks we didn't need new attackers, but priorities should have been elsewhere. Which is a perfectly valid view.

Other people (I'm one of them) think that attackers were just as much of a priority because we failed to score in more games than almost every other side, and not having options up front completely dictated the way we had to play. I think thats also very valid.

Who's to say who's right or wrong, nobody will know for a fair few weeks/ months yet, but I don't think its any more than a discussion about how we're trying to develop the way we play and what players are needed to set about it. And I don't think anyone would dispute its been a weird window, its not been plain sailing.

One thing that gets lost in all this is that it seems to being taken for granted that Waghorn is a huge improvement- his scoring record was terrible last year- fair bit of pressure on him to deliver not just experience & nous but a few more goals than he scored last year.

Nope. Still missing. The point is the strikers don’t matter if you can’t create chances and you can’t create chances if you have to have ten men behind the ball to stop conceding. Bringing up how many we scored is proving my point. If we had high xG and low goals scored then yes we’d need better finishers, but we don’t, we need to play higher up the pitch and for that the midfield and wingbacks need to be able to leave their half and trust the defence to handle themselves.

SkyBlueDom26 · Aug 5, 2021

09:41

DOOR OPEN FOR WALTON TO LEAVE BRIGHTON
Goalkeeper Christian Walton will be allowed to leave Brighton this summer, with several unnamed Sky Bet Championship clubs interested.
The 25-year-old, who has spent time on loan at Blackburn and Wigan in recent seasons, wants to play regular first-team football.
Walton has only one year left on his current contract and Brighton are keen to sanction a sale this month, rather than lose him on a free next summer.

Liquid Gold · Aug 5, 2021

Sky Blue Pete said:
Are you not taking any confidence from having a seasons experience in the league for rose hyam and Dabo?

It's hard to say Dabo and especially Rose have that experience when they were injured or unfit for so much of the season.

Hyam also doesn't inspire confidence on the left side.

Get a left footed LCB and have Rose and Hyam fighting for RCB would be good but then I'd ideally like an Osti clone to slowly take over from McFadz

Liquid Gold · Aug 5, 2021

SkyBlueDom26 said:
09:41

DOOR OPEN FOR WALTON TO LEAVE BRIGHTON
Goalkeeper Christian Walton will be allowed to leave Brighton this summer, with several unnamed Sky Bet Championship clubs interested.
The 25-year-old, who has spent time on loan at Blackburn and Wigan in recent seasons, wants to play regular first-team football.
Walton has only one year left on his current contract and Brighton are keen to sanction a sale this month, rather than lose him on a free next summer.

COV · Aug 5, 2021

shmmeee said:
Nope. Still missing. The point is the strikers don’t matter if you can’t create chances and you can’t create chances if you have to have ten men behind the ball to stop conceding. Bringing up how many we scored is proving my point. If we had high xG and low goals scored then yes we’d need better finishers, but we don’t, we need to play higher up the pitch and for that the midfield and wingbacks need to be able to leave their half and trust the defence to handle themselves.

Its not missing the point at all, its disagreeing. Your point is understood.

As was already pointed out, our best performances were when we played high & offensive, we've got the tools to do that more often now. Also when your goals scored are concentrated in fewer games than virtually every other team, the xg is misleading (if I understand it correctly) because it doesn't distinguish between, say, one 6-1 thrashing and six 1-0s- the former would give you three points, the latter eighteen points.

As for saying we don't need better finishers, especially when one of ours has injury problems- we will just have to agree to disagree.

Frostie · Aug 5, 2021

shmmeee said:
We had two strikers who if fit were on track to score as many as Waghorn on his best season.

I don't view Waghorn as purely a goalscorer though, he offers far more than just that, which as much as I like Walker, isn't really the case with him.

I'm guessing you were going for hyperbole but his best season at this level was 16 goals & 11 assists with NPG/90 of 0.39, way ahead of what both Godden & Walker managed last season.

SlowerThanPlatt · Aug 5, 2021

Yes he is good technically, takes corners and free kicks, would view him as more of a forward than striker

fernandopartridge · Aug 5, 2021

shmmeee said:
Nope. Still missing. The point is the strikers don’t matter if you can’t create chances and you can’t create chances if you have to have ten men behind the ball to stop conceding. Bringing up how many we scored is proving my point. If we had high xG and low goals scored then yes we’d need better finishers, but we don’t, we need to play higher up the pitch and for that the midfield and wingbacks need to be able to leave their half and trust the defence to handle themselves.

It has been pointed out many times that the way the club is looking to play is to get on the front foot and be aggressive, given how successful that strategy was late on in the season. I'm not sure why you keep referring to playing 10 men behind the ball, it is irrelevant to next season.

shmmeee · Aug 5, 2021

Frostie said:
I don't view Waghorn as purely a goalscorer though, he offers far more than just that, which as much as I like Walker, isn't really the case with him.

I'm guessing you were going for hyperbole but his best season at this level was 16 goals & 11 assists with NPG/90 of 0.39, way ahead of what both Godden & Walker managed last season.

Walkers NPG/90 was 0.35 last season. Goddens 0.37. Hardly way behind. Over a season Walker would’ve got 16, Waghorn and Godden 17.

Mucca Mad Boys · Aug 5, 2021

shmmeee said:
Missing. People are blathering on about Bakayoko who played 300 minutes all season when the point is our attack was poor because we had to use quantity rather than quality to plug the leaks on the pitch.

We had two strikers who if fit were on track to score as many as Waghorn on his best season. Maybe we needed another, I can accept that. But we’ve clearly spent the majority of the budget on two and still have the issues at the back that meant we couldn’t get out of our half half the time last season.

You’re saying that was Robins choice, if so then it’s a departure from his normally sensible transfer strategies of previous seasons.

Meanwhile, we needed Biamou to play 34 games last season. It’s area we need to improve because Godden has struggled with injury. Walker and Gyo are the two long term strikers and Godden and Waghorn probably won’t re-sign

I do think a lot of people are discounting Rose, he finished the season pretty strongly and we know last season he had a nasty injury.

We haven’t finished our recruitment because we’ve still got 3 players to sign and we only 1 of those is definitely going to be a loanee.

We signed Walker and McCallum (possibly another) after the season started for 20/21.

Bottom line: do you panicking after the transfer window has shut!

PVA · Aug 5, 2021

The importance of having a left footed CB is being way over played. It's not essential, there just aren't that many out there and therefore they're more expensive. Much rather a solid right footer at LCB than chasing an average defender just because he's left footed.

Ccfcisparks · Aug 5, 2021

shmmeee said:
Walkers NPG/90 was 0.35 last season. Goddens 0.37. Hardly way behind. Over a season Walker would’ve got 16, Waghorn and Godden 17.

Yes but they averaged no where near as many assists. Waghorn had 27 goal contributions that season which is brilliant. What Frostie is trying to say is that he offers us a goal threat as well as the versatility to play as a forward off the striker creating chances.

rexo87 · Aug 5, 2021

PVA said:
The importance of having a left footed CB is being way over played. It's not essential, there just aren't that many out there and therefore they're more expensive. Much rather a solid right footer at LCB than chasing an average defender just because he's left footed.

We will be able to play the way we want to do much easier with a left footed LCB. Watching Hyam either scuff it forward with his left foot out of play or turn around and pass back to the keeper was not good

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Mucca Mad Boys · Aug 5, 2021

fernandopartridge said:
It has been pointed out many times that the way the club is looking to play is to get on the front foot and be aggressive, given how successful that strategy was late on in the season. I'm not sure why you keep referring to playing 10 men behind the ball, it is irrelevant to next season.

We have the best pressing CAM in the league and Waghorn is a pressing forward, we’re clearly making that tactical tweak.

Personally, I think it’ll be effective and hopefully we’re difficult to beat in a similar way to Barnsley were last season.

We really do need the 2-3 signings Robins is hoping, but I’m optimistic about our team.

Marty · Aug 5, 2021

The whole squad needed improving, and will continue too. Maybe we offered perfectly good deals to players but they chose elsewhere. Plenty of reasons we haven't signed a CB then we blew the budget on Waghorn, I don't think many CBs have moved that we'd actually be interested in anyway, maybe Sanderson who went to Blues but that's about it of the top of my head, obviously Norwich wanted to throw McCallum into a new environment with different pressures. Even if Ostigard does become available, 15 teams from the championship alone would be interested, plus a plethora of other clubs in Europe. It's been a strange window, hardly anyone has repeatedly made good signings, where you think they're going to be serious challengers.

procdoc · Aug 5, 2021

shmmeee said:
Nope. Still missing. The point is the strikers don’t matter if you can’t create chances and you can’t create chances if you have to have ten men behind the ball to stop conceding. Bringing up how many we scored is proving my point. If we had high xG and low goals scored then yes we’d need better finishers, but we don’t, we need to play higher up the pitch and for that the midfield and wingbacks need to be able to leave their half and trust the defence to handle themselves.

So you’ve formed the opinion that Maatsen is weaker defensively based on 45 mins against possibly the quickest player in the world. We will recruit defenders, do you not think Robins sees this? We were crying out for a better forward and we signed one, anyone with any football knowledge can see that. You spout constant, negative bile. Fucking boring pal

Frostie · Aug 5, 2021

shmmeee said:
Walkers NPG/90 was 0.35 last season. Goddens 0.37. Hardly way behind. Over a season Walker would’ve got 16, Waghorn and Godden 17.

That's not NPG, it's including penalties isn't it?

Walker scored 6 (1pen) in 1801mins
NPG/90 = 0.30

Godden scored 6 (2pens) in 1452mins
NPG/90 = 0.25

PVA · Aug 5, 2021

rexo87 said:
We will be able to play the way we want to do much easier with a left footed LCB. Watching Hyam either scuff it forward with his left foot out of play or turn around and pass back to the keeper was not good

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Would it be ideal? Yes.

But it's not essential and it's being massively overplayed. I'd say the majority of teams that play 3 at the back don't have a left footer at LCB.

For example I'd rather sign Ostigard and play Hyam LCB, than sign Clarke-Salter so he can play LCB.

Being a good defender and good player takes massive precedence over left or right foot in that position.

shmmeee · Aug 5, 2021

Frostie said:
That's not NPG, it's including penalties isn't it?

Walker scored 6 (1pen) in 1801mins
NPG/90 = 0.30

Godden scored 6 (2pens) in 1452mins
NPG/90 = 0.25

Fair point I didn’t account for pens. We’re still talking one season four years ago.

Frostie · Aug 5, 2021

PVA said:
Would it be ideal? Yes.

But it's not essential and it's being massively overplayed. I'd say the majority of teams that play 3 at the back don't have a left footer at LCB.

For example I'd rather sign Ostigard and play Hyam LCB, than sign Clarke-Salter so he can play LCB.

Being a good defender and good player takes massive precedence over left or right foot in that position.

On what basis is Clarke-Salter not a good defender? Plus his ability on the ball surpasses anything else we have, he will be a massive asset.

fatso · Aug 5, 2021

shmmeee said:
Even if we signed Osti we’d be the same team that needed 9 defensive players on the pitch to stop leaking goals.

I think going forward we have much more talent this season. Maatsen looks better in the final third than McCallum, Sheaf is much more progressive than Kelly, a fit Dabo is a threat. But defensively Maatsen looks like a downgrade, our main CB is a year older, and our keeper doesn’t inspire confidence IMO. So I don’t see how we’re going to utilise this new found attacking talent when we’ll need them all behind the ball protecting the back line.

All true, but we now have options up front that will worry the opposition, Bright and Jones will give us pace and skill off the bench which we didnt have last season, Gyokres and Waghorn are different class compared to Bakayoko and Biamou, Sheaf and Hamer are far more experienced than this time last year, AND we arnt being hampered by an extended lay off!

Defensively we have issues, but Rose is now available, and IF (?) We get a couple of good loans in, things will suddenly look a lot better!

And dont forget theres a lot of other teams with bigger problems to face than us.

I'm confident that we will be mid table, and if we struggle at the start, MR will use the January window to sort it out, like he did with James last season.

Now bring on the Forest !

Skyblue_CP · Aug 5, 2021

Frostie said:
On what basis is Clarke-Salter not a good defender? Plus his ability on the ball surpasses anything else we have, he will be a massive asset.

People build up this picture of a player and decide they're bad, even if the majority haven't actually seen him play. Clarke-Salter is a good ball playing CB that we would have been dreaming of signing 2 years ago. Alot of people on here live on cloud 9 and think we should be in for Gary Cahill, but then if we did get him, moan about how much we are paying him!

COV · Aug 5, 2021

fatso said:
Now bring on the Forrest !

Here you go m8

hill83 · Aug 5, 2021

Mucca Mad Boys said:
Bottom line: do you panicking after the transfer window has shut!

That ship sailed weeks ago

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Aug 5, 2021

fernandopartridge said:
The assessment is based on having never seen the left wing back or keeper play and some ridiculous nostalgia for James and particularly Ostigard. With still some time before the season begins and transfer window closes.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

What has been said about James and Ostigard? They were two of our better players, certainly Ostigard was one of the first names on the team sheet. We haven't replaced either of them, let alone strengthen the defence or central midfield.

Of course, time will tell, but I am apprehensive to say the least. The question for me is how weak the league might be this year, that will work in our favour.

PVA · Aug 5, 2021

Frostie said:
On what basis is Clarke-Salter not a good defender? Plus his ability on the ball surpasses anything else we have, he will be a massive asset.

I haven't said he's a bad defender.

All I'm saying is overall ability takes massive precedence over what foot they are stronger with.

Great_Expectations · Aug 5, 2021

I appreciate the jury is out for a few, and he’s already the target for others, but the majority of people with any footballing knowledge know Bright has the ability to make things happen.

IF, and I accept it’s a big ish if, he applies himself, COH and Bright behind any of our four strikers is a seriously strong front three. From the start or a tactical game switch, that’s exciting. Plus add Jones to the mix and we have some serious attacking (and different) options this year.

Deleted member 9744 · Aug 5, 2021

PVA said:
The importance of having a left footed CB is being way over played. It's not essential, there just aren't that many out there and therefore they're more expensive. Much rather a solid right footer at LCB than chasing an average defender just because he's left footed.

Exactly and this all seems to originate from criticisms of Hyam's passing which was no worse than Ostigard's.

Deleted member 9744 · Aug 5, 2021

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
What has been said about James and Ostigard? They were two of our better players, certainly Ostigard was one of the first names on the team sheet. We haven't replaced either of them, let alone strengthen the defence or central midfield.

Of course, time will tell, but I am apprehensive to say the least. The question for me is how weak the league might be this year, that will work in our favour.

Agree with this. Overall I am not convinced we have strengthened the squad, especially as we have lost James, McCallum and Ostigard,and they were some of our most influential players. However, my suspicion is that most of the teams around our level will be weaker.

Frostie · Aug 5, 2021

PVA said:
I haven't said he's a bad defender.

All I'm saying is overall ability takes massive precedence over what foot they are stronger with.

Ok, fair enough but you said you'd rather sign Østigård. I assumed the comment about not signing someone average just because he's left footed was aimed at Clarke-Salter.

What if Clarke-Salter turns out to be just as good/better defensively than Osti as well as naturally offering balance on the left side & being an enormous upgrade in possession?

PVA · Aug 5, 2021

Frostie said:
What if Clarke-Salter turns out to be just as good/better defensively than Osti as well as naturally offering balance on the left side & being an enormous upgrade in possession?

Well that's entirely different of course. Then it's a perfect signing.

I'm just saying that being left footed isn't the be all and end all that some are making it out to be. And that I, and I'm sure Robins too, would rather sign a better right footed defender than a slightly inferior left footed defender.

Hyam gets a lot of stick but had a better pass completion rate than Ostigard.

Frostie · Aug 5, 2021

PVA said:
Well that's entirely different of course. Then it's a perfect signing.

I'm just saying that being left footed isn't the be all and end all that some are making it out to be. And that I, and I'm sure Robins too, would rather sign a better right footed defender than a slightly inferior left footed defender.

Hyam gets a lot of stick but had a better pass completion rate than Ostigard.

Exactly my point, as good as Østigård was he made a lot of mistakes too, especially at the beginning of the season & his use of the ball is poor.

Hyam had a poor season imo, although he improved a lot towards the end. He's definitely better on the ball than Østigård, but was hugely hampered by playing on the left.

That's why Clarke-Salter, on paper, is the perfect addition.

cc84cov · Aug 5, 2021

Great_Expectations said:
Feel free to check my history, I rated him and could see the impact he had while half the forum thought he was bang average.

My point remains though, he wasn’t a world beater, he wouldn’t single handedly win your games. He kept the ball moving, could pick a pass when needed and was positionally smart. They aren’t especially unique attributes, and in my view we have someone who has all those traits, but they’re overshadowed by the mistakes he’s makes - mistakes I expect will disappear this year.

He was a major part to survival I’m sure we will see his presence missed soon enough

cc84cov · Aug 5, 2021

Frostie said:
Ok, fair enough but you said you'd rather sign Østigård. I assumed the comment about not signing someone average just because he's left footed was aimed at Clarke-Salter.

What if Clarke-Salter turns out to be just as good/better defensively than Osti as well as naturally offering balance on the left side & being an enormous upgrade in possession?

Fair point I’ve been saying we haven’t replaced osti but haven’t seen the Chelsea lad play maybe he’s better

Greggs · Aug 5, 2021

Mucca Mad Boys said:
We have the best pressing CAM in the league and Waghorn is a pressing forward, we’re clearly making that tactical tweak.

Personally, I think it’ll be effective and hopefully we’re difficult to beat in a similar way to Barnsley were last season.

We really do need the 2-3 signings Robins is hoping, but I’m optimistic about our team.

I hope we're nothing like Barnsley, the football they played was atrocious. They'll find their level this season.

21/22 Summer transfer mega-thread (3 Viewers)

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