£6-7m sale price? (1 Viewer)

Gint11 · Oct 4, 2016

The way I see it.......

9 years ago SISU swooped in at the last minute to 'save the day' but in reality, take on a Club with potential sitting in the Championship. Taking on the debt we had at the time is peanuts IF and only IF we get back to the premiership. That was the 'HOPE'. We didnt. Instead we deteriorated. When they realised an error in judgement, they then thought the real asset is the stadium especially with Concerts happening. So they thought they could wrestle this off ACL through legal action. Again, this failed. Since then they have sold any player asset we have to make up some losses and fast forward to today, the only way they can get a lump sum back is by selling Ryton for housing. After that there is nothing left apart from seeing the outcome from the last legal battle they can ask for. After that then I can not see any reason to stay. If they still pipe dream the premier league, then they need to invest heavily and we know they won't. If I am talking shite tell me.

Esoterica · Oct 4, 2016

Astute said:
Yes we need a clean break. But SISU won't go without payment. So I would prefer a lower payment and money remaining to invest in us getting promotion and then another payment than a large payment and no money left to invest to help getting promotion.

Seems ludicrous to me Low payment up front, invest in getting promotion, then pay back the promotion windfall to SISU? I'd find it hard to truly celebrate a promotion knowing we were finally going to be back in the Champ but hamstrung by paying a debt back to SISU - it would kill the hope for me. I'd rather pay them off and run at break even, knowing if we were promoted we'd be hitting the championship able to give it a go at maximum budget.

Sky Blue Kid · Oct 4, 2016

Esoterica said:
Seems ludicrous to me Low payment up front, invest in getting promotion, then pay back the promotion windfall to SISU? I'd find it hard to truly celebrate a promotion knowing we were finally going to be back in the Champ but hamstrung by paying a debt back to SISU - it would kill the hope for me. I'd rather pay them off and run at break even, knowing if we were promoted we'd be hitting the championship able to give it a go at maximum budget.

Have to say, 100% agree with that.

Captain Dart · Oct 4, 2016

oldskyblue58 said:
Yep there is a cost certainly - fleetwoods training ground cost 6.5m I believe

Who are the investors though? and who controls the investors? Just my opinion but I doubt Sconset bought the original investors out for £28m

Wow, £6.5M, my estimation skills are well out! Shows how much a proper development would cost. I guess you could do something decent for £3M though but it would not match up to what exists at Ryton and would probably require some facilities to be out sourced. Its been a worry of mine since Ryton redevelopment came up that SISU are looking to take it and replace it with short term contracts at Warwick Uni & Higgs Centre and put the offices in rented space near the rail Station (for instance). I can see it all happening am I being paranoid?

As far as buy out costs go wasn't the time Sconset bought them out the time Brody appeared. Think this gives a clue about costs for the whole lot. I wonder if Brody's investment has cost him a lot of money, has he had to fork out 4% of the money needed to keep the club going since he purchased?

Captain Dart · Oct 4, 2016

Kingokings204 said:
Seems Ryton is being sold or could be as we owe avro ltd 8m and ryton is secured against that debt so I guess if we can't pay arvo their 8m back they have put in then they can legally sell ryton to get that back.

How much is ryton land worth? Whatever it is will be used to pay off and settle arvo debt. And if they do sell it with permission there is literally no reason to stay after that.

found this which explains better than me http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/fears-grow-over-coventry-city-3025250

Written by Reid before he went over to the dark side. :angelic:

MusicDating · Oct 4, 2016

Captain Dart said:
Wow, £6.5M, my estimation skills are well out! Shows how much a proper development would cost. I guess you could do something decent for £3M though but it would not match up to what exists at Ryton and would probably require some facilities to be out sourced. Its been a worry of mine since Ryton redevelopment came up that SISU are looking to take it and replace it with short term contracts at Warwick Uni & Higgs Centre and put the offices in rented space near the rail Station (for instance). I can see it all happening am I being paranoid?

As far as buy out costs go wasn't the time Sconset bought them out the time Brody appeared. Think this gives a clue about costs for the whole lot. I wonder if Brody's investment has cost him a lot of money, has he had to fork out 4% of the money needed to keep the club going since he purchased?

Looks like it was £8m! - http://www.skysports.com/football/n...ds-new-8million-training-complex-on-wednesday

albatross · Oct 4, 2016

OSB58 , to me it seems that Ryton with Planning permission is the last wringings out of the club. Exactly what do they have to do to satisfy the RBC regarding the replacement facilities given they are not a "public use" facility but a facility for a private club? Would it be satisfactory to see the club's training facility simply rehoused as seemed to be their plan when they wanted to relocate the first team to the Alan Higgs?

Then SISU could call in the "debt" on a piece of land that at the time would have no planning for houses at a fraction of its potential worth?

skybluetony176 · Oct 4, 2016

oldfiver said:
That's what the CT want you to think!

I don't read the CT. It's not them that's made me think that. It's 9 years of what I've witnessed first hand happen to CCFC at the hands of it's owners. Still, let's blame the CT for what we all think.

oldskyblue58 · Oct 4, 2016

albatross said:
OSB58 , to me it seems that Ryton with Planning permission is the last wringings out of the club. Exactly what do they have to do to satisfy the RBC regarding the replacement facilities given they are not a "public use" facility but a facility for a private club? Would it be satisfactory to see the club's training facility simply rehoused as seemed to be their plan when they wanted to relocate the first team to the Alan Higgs?

Then SISU could call in the "debt" on a piece of land that at the time would have no planning for houses at a fraction of its potential worth?

not entirely sure what they have to do. I suspect it might simply be to ensure the two replacement pitches and some changing rooms with no specification of standard etc within the RBC boundary ARVO could call on their debenture at any time that suits them in order to maximise recovery of their loan monies

albatross · Oct 4, 2016

oldskyblue58 said:
not entirely sure what they have to do. I suspect it might simply be to ensure the two replacement pitches and some changing rooms with no specification of standard etc within the RBC boundary ARVO could call on their debenture at any time that suits them in order to maximise recovery of their loan monies

Thanks thought so

skybluetony176 · Oct 4, 2016

oldskyblue58 said:
I suspect it might simply be to ensure the two replacement pitches and some changing rooms with no specification of standard etc within the RBC boundary

Keep making this point myself. This certainly needs some confirmation.

Captain Dart · Oct 4, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
Keep making this point myself. This certainly needs some confirmation.

The local press should be all over this. We need to be clear what is at risk.

Badger · Oct 4, 2016

RBC Local plan is in consultation
Consultation on the publication draft local plan started on Monday 26 September and will continue until Friday 11 November 2016.
https://www.rugby.gov.uk/info/20004...local_plan_-_publication_draft_consultation/2

Should we all be lodging a comment that the replacement should be fit for professional football use? Personally I would need guidance on how to complete the form and the best wording.

Or do SISU go quicker if they can sell with planning permission

Astute · Oct 4, 2016

Esoterica said:
Seems ludicrous to me Low payment up front, invest in getting promotion, then pay back the promotion windfall to SISU? I'd find it hard to truly celebrate a promotion knowing we were finally going to be back in the Champ but hamstrung by paying a debt back to SISU - it would kill the hope for me. I'd rather pay them off and run at break even, knowing if we were promoted we'd be hitting the championship able to give it a go at maximum budget.

I fullyagree. But what are the chances of them leaving without getting some money back? There is more chance of them having us bump along, maybe taking another relegation along the way just hoping something goes their way.

Gint11 · Oct 4, 2016

Astute said:
I fullyagree. But what are the chances of them leaving without getting some money back? There is more chance of them having us bump along, maybe taking another relegation along the way just hoping something goes their way.

100% certain they will want money for it all at some point. There has to be an end game eventually. That end game is either a) hold out for large offer until they realise it won't happen, b) receive peanuts offer and accept or C) run us right down until we don't exist - liquidate.

Astute · Oct 4, 2016

Gint11 said:
100% certain they will want money for it all at some point. There has to be an end game eventually. That end game is either a) hold out for large offer until they realise it won't happen, b) receive peanuts offer and accept or C) run us right down until we don't exist - liquidate.

And this is the problem.

Get a big offer? Can't see it happening.
Accept a low offer? Can't see it happening.
So what would we be left with?

Gint11 · Oct 4, 2016

Astute said:
And this is the problem.

Get a big offer? Can't see it happening.
Accept a low offer? Can't see it happening.
So what would we be left with?

Sadly agree.

christonabike · Oct 4, 2016

All we need is Wasps to refuse a new rental deal and they will have to move again or the FA can tell them the golden share will be withdrawn. If they move us away its the end game and will be over very quickly either way.

oldskyblue58 · Oct 4, 2016

so long as Wasps are not losing on the deal I do not think they will kick CCFC out. They may well increase the rent and not share any income. But they wont kick them out. guess we will wait and see

its not like ccfc have any real alternatives

Sky Blue Kid · Oct 4, 2016

christonabike said:
All we need is Wasps to refuse a new rental deal and they will have to move again or the FA can tell them the golden share will be withdrawn. If they move us away its the end game and will be over very quickly either way.

Not neccesarily,. If wasps refuse us a deal, the FL would look on it as "Not our Fault" so would probably allow another move away from Coventry, with another £1m-£2m surety against building a stadium... Again!

chiefdave · Oct 4, 2016

This is basically the same problem we had when KMPG were selling the club and we ended up with SISU. Robinson and his cronies wouldn't leave without a payout despite the club being worthless and everyone apart from SISU weren't interested in buying unless there was a prospect of owning the stadium.

Think that time round pressure was applied by the bank threatening to put us in to admin which would have meant those owed money taking a hit anyway so an agreement was made to pay some debt off, write some off and a promise of an additional payment if we made the PL in a certain number of years.

chiefdave · Oct 4, 2016

Sky Blue Kid said:
Not neccesarily,. If wasps refuse us a deal, the FL would look on it as "Not our Fault" so would probably allow another move away from Coventry, with another £1m-£2m surety against buliding a stadium... Again!

Exactly right. In some ways CCC and Wasps have played into SISU's hand here. The FL ultimately don't want to kick clubs out the league and certainly don't want to risk legal action. Fisher can just turn up to a meeting with a couple of press cuttings from the CT showing Wasps breaking off talks about staying at the Ricoh and CCC putting pressure on CRFC with regard to the Butts. I would be amazed if the FL didn't take that as enough evidence the club was being forced out.

clint van damme · Oct 4, 2016

oldskyblue58 said:
so long as Wasps are not losing on the deal I do not think they will kick CCFC out. They may well increase the rent and not share any income. But they wont kick them out. guess we will wait and see

its not like ccfc have any real alternatives

how would it affect the Compass deal if we left? They must make a decent wack from the F&B at City games.

christonabike · Oct 4, 2016

Can CCFC (Sisu) continue to fund the club if they moved to Northampton was what I was getting at. They tried it before and JS admitted it nearly broke the support from their investors.

Astute · Oct 4, 2016

clint van damme said:
how would it affect the Compass deal if we left? They must make a decent wack from the F&B at City games.

There would be less of an effect than when we went to Northampton as they would still have the egg chasers.

Astute · Oct 4, 2016

christonabike said:
Can CCFC (Sisu) continue to fund the club if they moved to Northampton was what I was getting at. They tried it before and JS admitted it nearly broke the support from their investors.

Do they still have anyone investing money? Our playing budget would certainly be decimated if crowds were as low as last time. But would they be as low if we were forced out of Coventry?

oldskyblue58 · Oct 4, 2016

clint van damme said:
how would it affect the Compass deal if we left? They must make a decent wack from the F&B at City games.

It only affects the group or Compass if on the 23 match days they can not put other events on.

I think the spend in 2015 per head on F&B from football supporters was something like 1.97 per head (disclosed in Wasps accounts) that equates to £480k. take out the VAT, the wages to staff the kiosks, the direct costs, the overhead allocation and then split the result 50:50 between Wasps and CCFC and the net plus is 72k (just like it was reported for CCFC). So if they don't replace CCFC they miss out on £172k (rent plus F&B),

Just for an example a large Indian wedding starts at £50k+ .......... 23 more days hotel available..... 23 more days function room available ....... opportunities to rent the stadium bowl out for other events or sports.....

I know everyone looks at what they might lose in income but they would also lose costs and aggravation.................

Not sure Compass nor Wasps will lose much sleep if I am honest their marketing department will change tack and get other income generating events

italiahorse · Oct 4, 2016

chiefdave said:
Exactly right. In some ways CCC and Wasps have played into SISU's hand here. The FL ultimately don't want to kick clubs out the league and certainly don't want to risk legal action. Fisher can just turn up to a meeting with a couple of press cuttings from the CT showing Wasps breaking off talks about staying at the Ricoh and CCC putting pressure on CRFC with regard to the Butts. I would be amazed if the FL didn't take that as enough evidence the club was being forced out.

I see it different.
Wasps will offer CCFC a deal of say £250K-£400K.
It's a fair rent so the FL won't allow the club to move.
Don't forget the club will only move if they are better off this time.
Last time they financed the club while they waited for ACL to fold in the failed attempt to gain financially by the collapse.

Bruce the Boot · Oct 4, 2016

chiefdave said:
Exactly right. In some ways CCC and Wasps have played into SISU's hand here. The FL ultimately don't want to kick clubs out the league and certainly don't want to risk legal action. Fisher can just turn up to a meeting with a couple of press cuttings from the CT showing Wasps breaking off talks about staying at the Ricoh and CCC putting pressure on CRFC with regard to the Butts. I would be amazed if the FL didn't take that as enough evidence the club was being forced out.[/QUOT

[="chiefdave, post:member: 300"]Exactly right. In some ways CCC and Wasps have played into SISU's hand here. The FL ultimately don't want to kick clubs out the league and certainly don't want to risk legal action. Fisher can just turn up to a meeting with a couple of press cuttings from the CT showing Wasps breaking off talks about staying at the Ricoh and CCC putting pressure on CRFC with regard to the Butts. I would be amazed if the FL didn't take that as enough evidence the club was being forced out.

chiefdave said:
Exactly right. In some ways CCC and Wasps have played into SISU's hand here. The FL ultimately don't want to kick clubs out the league and certainly don't want to risk legal action. Fisher can just turn up to a meeting with a couple of press cuttings from the CT showing Wasps breaking off talks about staying at the Ricoh and CCC putting pressure on CRFC with regard to the Butts. I would be amazed if the FL didn't take that as enough evidence the club was being forced out.

I would hope the fl are more savvy than to just look at one side of the story, I hope they can see that they have n't delivered on anything they put to the fl last time they had major contact .

stupot07 · Oct 4, 2016

italiahorse said:
I see it different.
Wasps will offer CCFC a deal of say £250K-£400K.
It's a fair rent so the FL won't allow the club to move.
Don't forget the club will only move if they are better off this time.
Last time they financed the club while they waited for ACL to fold in the failed attempt to gain financially by the collapse.

Personally I think wasps will want £500k+ pa rent, plus £10k per match match day costs, with no access to f&b's, parking,etc. Its a shit deal, even the port vale chairman said no access to stadium revenues is a shit situation to be in. And probably insist on a 20 year deal with no breakout clause.

Wasps will want to make as much money out of us as possible IMO.

"
The millionaire says City’s problems started before Sisu took over the club and that the club “sold its soul” when it left Highfield Road and that the deal to play at the Ricoh Arena without matchday revenue was “crackers”.

...

“Whoever signed off the deal to play at the Ricoh with no matchday revenue must have been crackers because without that third party income

.....

“And although recent negotiations have gone some way to help that, it’s a case of too little too late. I also think the tenure is nowhere near good enough in relation to the football club, which leaves massive challenges.”

....

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Astute · Oct 4, 2016

italiahorse said:
I see it different.
Wasps will offer CCFC a deal of say £250K-£400K.
It's a fair rent so the FL won't allow the club to move.
Don't forget the club will only move if they are better off this time.
Last time they financed the club while they waited for ACL to fold in the failed attempt to gain financially by the collapse.

SISU keep up with the JR's. Wasps keep on about the 'background noise' stopping negotiations. So no deal is made.

Wasps get the arena to themselves. SISU get to move us out of Coventry again...if someone will let us play in their ground again.

oldskyblue58 · Oct 4, 2016

The FL looks first and foremost at getting the fixtures completed, then look at protecting its members, then paying lip service to the fans and grass root football. Personally I wouldn't rely on the FL doing anything, especially not if said action brings with it the real threat of legal action or setting a precedent that might upset an already dodgy apple cart known as football finance

wingy · Oct 4, 2016

Re training facilities surely as Wasp's move out Of Broadstreet there should be potential to sort something there?

martcov · Oct 4, 2016

stupot07 said:
Personally I think wasps will want £500k+ pa rent, plus £10k per match match day costs, with no access to f&b's, parking,etc. Its a shit deal, even the port vale chairman said no access to stadium revenues is a shit situation to be in. And probably insist on a 20 year deal with no breakout clause.

Wasps will want to make as much money out of us as possible IMO.

"
The millionaire says City’s problems started before Sisu took over the club and that the club “sold its soul” when it left Highfield Road and that the deal to play at the Ricoh Arena without matchday revenue was “crackers”.

...

“Whoever signed off the deal to play at the Ricoh with no matchday revenue must have been crackers because without that third party income

.....

“And although recent negotiations have gone some way to help that, it’s a case of too little too late. I also think the tenure is nowhere near good enough in relation to the football club, which leaves massive challenges.”

....

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

There are still the stadium naming rights in the background...... They may be worth a lot more just by CCFC being there and the extra coverage that brings - a big difference in the amount of fixtures and sports coverage. I don't think Wasps will want to kill CCFC off with such a bad deal as you suggest, unless they really do want to buy us for peanuts and in that case they would...

shmmeee · Oct 4, 2016

stupot07 said:
Personally I think wasps will want £500k+ pa rent, plus £10k per match match day costs, with no access to f&b's, parking,etc. Its a shit deal, even the port vale chairman said no access to stadium revenues is a shit situation to be in. And probably insist on a 20 year deal with no breakout clause.

Wasps will want to make as much money out of us as possible IMO.

"
The millionaire says City’s problems started before Sisu took over the club and that the club “sold its soul” when it left Highfield Road and that the deal to play at the Ricoh Arena without matchday revenue was “crackers”.

...

“Whoever signed off the deal to play at the Ricoh with no matchday revenue must have been crackers because without that third party income

.....

“And although recent negotiations have gone some way to help that, it’s a case of too little too late. I also think the tenure is nowhere near good enough in relation to the football club, which leaves massive challenges.”

....

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Costs what it costs and it's not Wasps' job to keep us in business. If the Ricoh is too big for us right now, or the finance is set up in a way that doesn't work (at least one of which, if not both I suspect is true), then we need to look elsewhere.

Its Sisus responsibility and Sisus alone to ensure we have somewhere to play. The possibility that the Ricoh isn't suitable has been there since day one, the ability to change that left our hands two years ago (I think, it's all a blur). What are we doing?

If all bridges are burned and there are no avenues forward, it's time to sell up or wind up. Whining about how everyone owes you a living doesn't get anyone anywhere. You don't control what you don't own, that's life.

£6-7m sale price? (1 Viewer)

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