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Fair point, but that’s not really what I want to get hung up on. Besides, England pulling away from recent world champions in terms of quality is something I’d like to see continue!

I see a lot of talk on here about how international football is somehow worse today than it was 10/20 years ago, but I’m not sure how people are measuring that? I assume it’s more than just vague notions of ‘It was better in my day’. All that being said, the thing that Southgate is accused of...

Well at least it seems to finally be reaching the endgame now - either SISU (and King) sign up to a longer term future as Fraser’s tenants, sell up to someone else, or they try again with the strategy of waiting out our landlords and it’s off we go to Birmingham/Burton/Walsall next season.

Germany in 2021 is my final answer, but please let me go to bed now.

In Russia? As for 2021, I can’t honestly believe that a team playing 3ATB with Harry Maguire, plus a holding midfield of Declan Rice and some guy from Leeds was honestly the runaway favourite.

Southgate absolutely got the team performing above their station in 2018 and 2021 imo. For a team with crap CBs and middling DMs to reach the semi-final/final was an achievement.

What?! Alex Ferguson is a managerial legend who built a true dynasty; Southgate is a limited coach who’s nevertheless taken a flawed England team to their best tournament showing in decades. I’ve never said the man’s a genius, but I do think the backlash against him is hysterical and unfair.

Sven has a pretty good rep as far as I can tell, and Southgate’s teams also got fucked over twice on penalties, so I’m not calling much of a difference between them in terms of results.

While I agree with you that Maddison has got a raw deal, Southgate’s focus on continuity and togetherness has allowed a team with glaring holes to perform much better than it sometimes deserved to at tournaments.

I don’t disagree, but I think given the horrendous record of previous managers who didn’t even manage to reach the “mediocre” heights that Our Gareth has reached, he deserves a bit more respect. I think he’s left his eventual successor with some important lessons about how to manage a team...

Worst manager we’ve ever had, surely

Lol - just admit that a player you don’t like did something valuable. My heart didn’t sing when Mount came on either but denying he had an impact on the game is just pig-headed.

Would you describe our recent records in tournaments as mediocre?

Rubbish. If Maddison had come on and instantly won a penalty you’d have been patting yourself on the back so hard your ribcage would have flown out.

There are arguments for every player. He can bring on Maddison (although I would suggest the last few minutes of a WC QF aren’t the best place to test players at a new level), but if he doesn’t change the game then it’s people screaming about why he didn’t bring on Grealish (or Rashford, or...

I don’t think any of us really know if he was ever going to be fit enough or ready enough to make a difference tonight - especially for a player with so little international experience. Any England manager for the next few years is going to have this problem - unless they play some kind of...

Fucking WELL UP for this, looks like he’s got the team spot on too. Can’t be worse than the game this afternoon - good luck everyone.

Kane was absolutely shite when he came on - why is he still here? I was assured he would be moved on.

Fucking wonderful stuff Morocco. If I wasn’t still stuck in Reading then it’d be an epic night on Edgware Road.