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You are almost certainly right and if we don't fancy the responsibility of what they might do in our name, should we vote at all? In the absence of a party with any real chance of power that would not have gone down that route, what are we ordinary folk to do?

Vote with a good heart and good conscience for those we believe will not lead us to destruction and encourage others to do the same.

I'm closer to Marx ideologically but Pilkington IQ wise. :)

Good for you, nor will I, it was somebody else's vote that counted, not mine. It does highlight though, the importance of voting and being politically aware enough to realize that our collective votes could have a dramatic effect on world affairs. (A little reminder for our American cousins)

A simplistic view in my opinion. However, I'm not saying we should feel guilty, after all, we could not have foreseen that. We cannot escape the fact though, that we took part in a system which elected a western leader who then took actions that have contributed to today's state of affairs.

You can't pick and choose who has rights you plum! :facepalm:

But it never has stacked up, the world is not a fair place. Unfortunately those making poor decisions are rarely those paying the price.

You know I was just thinking... what this debate really needs now is an utter fuckwit who believes people should be tortured and has no respect for anyone's rights. (except his own I'm sure)

To be fair though, they are not blowing the shite of us and are not likely to.

I was only joking! :)

Neither did I, but I did vote for Blair, there is a collective responsibility. But when I say 'we' am really referring to the Western world.

Perhaps they should have called it a 10 year plan then?

Ok, I'll bite... No of course I'm not saying that. What I am saying is that there are many, many factors that have led to the current radicalization of more Muslims than was previously the case. Of course any culture than condone's such behavior is sick but... this polarization in political and...

Why now then Otis? Coincidence? Religious beliefs can be radicalized just like political beliefs.

Oh jesus, have a word pal

That is NOT what I said. Just that you reap what you sow and we have been led into situations that were avoidable by those in power, Mr Blair, etc. We are now, to some extent at least, seeing the consequences of those actions.

I agree but it leaves us with a dilemma and maybe the truth is we're fucked either way. Nothing would give me greater pleasure than to see them annihilated but I fear that it would not mean an end to this

In my FIFA team he's playing Prem and Champions League footy at CAM and smashing them in! :)

Could I just remind you that it was western aggression that radicalized them in the first place.