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They were there, Nick. There was at least one van there from very early on. What they weren't, was visible. That bit I can't answer. It could be they had loads of officers just around the corner (not unusual in public order situations) or it could be that they actually thought it would pass...

And the problem is, the police have to take all of those threats seriously, and allocate resources. Then if some knob posts something about attacking a mosque, there's the reaction from the other side to try to cover too. It's a nightmare for the police, I still think getting a lid on social...

Anyway, without getting pulled back into this today, is that what would be helpful would be the police in Birmingham explaining why they were so low profile. I don't believe two tier policing is really a thing. When you're substantially outmanned, the job is always going to be to contain rather...

Not quite with you mate. Is that the Hareshill thing again, you mean?

Hareshill: This is literally the verbatim response of the Police Officer with thirty years experience of public order: "The circumstances in Harehills were very different. “It started out looking like a standard call that many officers will go to, an incident at an address with social services...

God knows, they were probably too rough for @MalcSB in all of the places where they tried to control the far right rioters/dancers. The fact is though, that the police all over the country have been overstretched by the need to try to control and prevent the far right arseholes from violence...

No, no, the police were there, trying to stop the far right dickheads. You were literally banging on just a minute ago about how they were too rough. Remember?

Which bit do you differ with, exactly? I'd hate it to be thought that you're just having an incoherent whine at policing and couldn't actually back up your argument.

In the meantime, an explainer on two-tier policing. Most of this I agree with, but what happened in Birmingham last night still didn't look right to me. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/06/england-riots-two-tier-policing-myth-widespread

For anyone missing the irony, unemployment was at about 5% in 1979, climbed to 11% by the mid 80s, and never got back to 70s levels until the early noughties. https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peoplenotinwork/unemployment/timeseries/mgsx/lms Not entirely sure what this has to do...

I've got to say that I don't really understand the seeming absence of the police last night in Brum, at least when things started to get ugly. It can't be easy when you're clearly outnumbered, but letting them get near the pub seems like a real failure to me. It's an obvious flashpoint. It all...

The army are not trained to deal with this kind of shit. They're trained to shoot to kill, call in artillery, drive tanks, march in tight formation, etc. etc.. They've got no powers of arrest, beyond those that you and I have. The country isn't in flames, it's grim, but it's not that grim...

Fair enough mate, happy to leave it at that. But look, if you won't go, I'm going to have to call it a night.

We can't ban people from waving flags mate, Israeli or Palestinian. Threats and racism though, and I mean either way, that we should act on. Agreed. Anyway isn't it time you popped out for some Monster Munch.

Sorry mate, but that's not right. It's not anti-semitic to show support for Palestine. That's not right at all. As for being on a roundabout, I guess that's a mini-protest. Are they attacking police yet?

I think it's a legitimate method of expressing discontent, Otis. It doesn't hurt or threaten anyone. If the EDL were content to stand in front of churches waving the cross of St George, I'd be ok with that I guess. Better than burning down hotels, that's for sure.

Anyway, hope you've been to the shop already Nick, because I've really got to go. Try not to break anything or upset anyone, eh. 😄

Because there are tens of thousands of Muslims (including women and children) dying in Gaza, Nick, and the impression that our government doesn't much care. It's not directly related to the EDL, but it's obviously a trigger point for Muslims around the world. Flying a Palestinian flag...

I absolutely get that you're not advocating it, but that would make things ten times worse of course. The best result here is what I think is going to happen, which is nothing. The EDL scrotes are basically cowards, so they won't show, and I think there are enough mature, decent people at the...

Yes, I get that. If it kicks off I'd be surprised if he's not be eating tasers and facing ten years if he pulls that out and starts waving it around. At the moment though there's no threat to anyone. Clearly over the weekend the rioters were actively seeking a violent confrontation, so it...