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Oh dear. Truth is Grendel, you can be very impressive on the front foot (full bullying mode) but not so impressive on the ropes.

Only their starting 11

So why try to use some bullshit argument that we were rescuing the downtrodden Iraqi people? Still, if it suits your agenda... And yes I would have been outraged, or do you condone public execution? Perhaps you are more like the IS thugs than you'd care to admit?

You going to answer my question or pull your usual bullshit?

You sound like Trump you fool.

Grendel, you are not the only one who is disappointed. I thought you were smarter than this. Are you seriously telling me you think we intervened in Iraq for humanitarian reasons? Straight answer please, are you?

What a silly post. Of course nobody is comfortable that those regimes exist. The questions are of course; should it have been our job to sort it out? And was that the reason we were there at all?

So what are you saying G? Our multiculturalism is to blame? We should be more like Russia? What?

You are almost certainly right and if we don't fancy the responsibility of what they might do in our name, should we vote at all? In the absence of a party with any real chance of power that would not have gone down that route, what are we ordinary folk to do?

Vote with a good heart and good conscience for those we believe will not lead us to destruction and encourage others to do the same.

I'm closer to Marx ideologically but Pilkington IQ wise. :)

Good for you, nor will I, it was somebody else's vote that counted, not mine. It does highlight though, the importance of voting and being politically aware enough to realize that our collective votes could have a dramatic effect on world affairs. (A little reminder for our American cousins)

A simplistic view in my opinion. However, I'm not saying we should feel guilty, after all, we could not have foreseen that. We cannot escape the fact though, that we took part in a system which elected a western leader who then took actions that have contributed to today's state of affairs.

You can't pick and choose who has rights you plum! :facepalm:

But it never has stacked up, the world is not a fair place. Unfortunately those making poor decisions are rarely those paying the price.

You know I was just thinking... what this debate really needs now is an utter fuckwit who believes people should be tortured and has no respect for anyone's rights. (except his own I'm sure)

To be fair though, they are not blowing the shite of us and are not likely to.

I was only joking! :)

Neither did I, but I did vote for Blair, there is a collective responsibility. But when I say 'we' am really referring to the Western world.