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So let me get this right. I state that we need clear rules and need to stick to them. You try to cause an argument with me yet say the same 🤔

Their deaths were well above ours at the start. Their cases have never been anywhere near as bad as ours are now not even during the spike you mentioned. They are much lower now.

Contradictory not meaningless. Going out to buy it instead of getting it delivered isn't essential.

Italy. They went from being the worst effected to not doing too bad. My family is under curfew from 8pm to 6am. The worse affected areas are 6pm to 6am. Stops people visiting each other at night. So it will have an effect.

But isn't it a contradiction to say we can only leave our house for something essential but we can go out and get a takeaway? Who said the rules are meaningless? The problem isn't the majority who stick to them. It is the minority who look for a way to break them.

It is the same test as we need to get from the UK to an EU country. Taken no more than 72 hours before arrival and a certificate needed.

Straight forward rules would help. Exercise locally? That's certainly down to interpretation. My wife and kids were not allowed more than 1km away from where they live. They were not allowed out for more than an hour. They had to have their attestation filled out including the time they left the...

When I was last over last summer everyone I saw kept to the rules. If you don't wear a mask you are not allowed into the shops. During their lockdowns only one person was allowed to go shopping in their car unless only one could drive but was unstable on their feet and the other couldn't drive...

The same reason we have had it bad all the way through.

So when items are sold from the shelves they shouldn't get restocked during the day so you don't have to wait to go along an aisle?

Aggressive? Show me where. My point all the way through this is how lax we have been. At our strictest we have been lax. We even got half our bill paid if we went out to eat at one stage. The rules put in place might well have worked if they were kept to. But we have idiots trying to make...

No need to be an arse? Can you explain this as it is yourself who seems to be being an arse with your comment. All I have done is explain what others have done compared to the UK.

Oh yes. Much better to have empty shelves and for those shielding from the virus to do their own shopping than yourself to do the rest of your shopping and then go down that aisle later.

How lax the rules got in summer? Can you please point out how severe the rules got at any time. Have you read the posts from those of us that live elsewhere than the UK? I am a keyworker. I have been allowed out all the way through lockdowns because of what I do in my spare time. Other than...

Have been taking in the details from several sources. Gets you through a long night shift. Just shows how much of a knife edge we are on. But it does look beatable.

It shows how 'easy' it is to make slight changes and gives hope on the future of something more permanent becoming available as more establishments look for a cure. But we still don't know the long term protection given by the present vaccinations being given.

Which is why I asked when they all had contact with each other. Might even have got it from the kids if they go to school. Have known a few people get a positive result after getting a test after losing sense of smell and no other symptoms.

How long since you have both had contact with the kids?

So what are the long term projections? Exactly. No tests have been long term as they haven't been used long term or tested long term.

Which is what many of the experts are saying will probably happen. But others are saying we need to reach 80% immunisation or more to defeat it. And then as I said earlier if they can come out with vaccines so quickly why won't they be able to come out with better in the future. And that is...