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stupot07 said:
They are PL teams they are all good in possession, other than Hull there's not really another team that are going to come, sit in a block and have little possession at the CSB.

There's weaknesses in all systems, you can't blame the formation for the pocket of space behind the wing back, the same space is there's in a 4 at the back especially with our full backs that like to go forward. It's a space that was exploited many times last season as well.
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There will be several teams that average 40-45% possession and will look to play low blocks away from home. Those are the teams you try to be a bit more progressive against.

With Saturday’s specific goal in mind, we weren’t hit on the counter it was a direct pass from them between the LWB and LCB which is naturally there when you’re asking JDS to play higher up. Don’t get me wrong, 3-4-3 on Saturday helped us be more solid and the goal was the result of 3 individually brilliant pieces of skill.

Last season, we usually got caught in those channels when teams counter attacked us and had committed fullbacks forward, it’s not the same.
 
Mucca Mad Boys said:
There will be several teams that average 40-45% possession and will look to play low blocks away from home. Those are the teams you try to be a bit more progressive against.

With Saturday’s specific goal in mind, we weren’t hit on the counter it was a direct pass from them between the LWB and LCB which is naturally there when you’re asking JDS to play higher up. Don’t get me wrong, 3-4-3 on Saturday helped us be more solid and the goal was the result of 3 individually brilliant pieces of skill.

Last season, we usually got caught in those channels when teams counter attacked us and had committed fullbacks forward, it’s not the same.
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It took a pretty impressive sequence of play to crack the defence open, so you just have to say fair play to the opposition. There is no tactical system that’s bullet proof, the question really is one of which trade offs we’re willing to make.
 
Brighton Sky Blue said:
It took a pretty impressive sequence of play to crack the defence open, so you just have to say fair play to the opposition. There is no tactical system that’s bullet proof, the question really is one of which trade offs we’re willing to make.
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Yeah against most teams the pass isn’t that well weighted the cross isn’t that good first time on the byline and the header isn’t met that well or Amenda beaten. Thats what you get against top top sides.
 
Mucca Mad Boys said:
There will be several teams that average 40-45% possession and will look to play low blocks away from home. Those are the teams you try to be a bit more progressive against.

With Saturday’s specific goal in mind, we weren’t hit on the counter it was a direct pass from them between the LWB and LCB which is naturally there when you’re asking JDS to play higher up. Don’t get me wrong, 3-4-3 on Saturday helped us be more solid and the goal was the result of 3 individually brilliant pieces of skill.

Last season, we usually got caught in those channels when teams counter attacked us and had committed fullbacks forward, it’s not the same.
Click to expand...

So 2 things:

1. I think you’re massively over-egging how many will look to play a low block at our place. Hull are one, granted, but I’d be surprised if there’s more than one other. I also think it overestimates our ability to take the game to an opposition team in a traditional sense. We’ll be far better served soaking up pressure and hitting on the break this season. Very few others will accept stinking out a 0-0 against us.

2. Dasilva isn’t high for their goal, that channel would be open whether back 4 or back 5 given the positions on the pitch.
 
SBAndy said:
So 2 things:

1. I think you’re massively over-egging how many will look to play a low block at our place. Hull are one, granted, but I’d be surprised if there’s more than one other. I also think it overestimates our ability to take the game to an opposition team in a traditional sense. We’ll be far better served soaking up pressure and hitting on the break this season. Very few others will accept stinking out a 0-0 against us.

2. Dasilva isn’t high for their goal, that channel would be open whether back 4 or back 5 given the positions on the pitch.
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In our third straight season of high fullbacks as a tactical choice and people are still blaming Dasilva and MvE for playing high like Lampard hasn’t asked that of them.
 
SBAndy said:
So 2 things:

1. I think you’re massively over-egging how many will look to play a low block at our place. Hull are one, granted, but I’d be surprised if there’s more than one other. I also think it overestimates our ability to take the game to an opposition team in a traditional sense. We’ll be far better served soaking up pressure and hitting on the break this season. Very few others will accept stinking out a 0-0 against us.

2. Dasilva isn’t high for their goal, that channel would be open whether back 4 or back 5 given the positions on the pitch.
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Agreed.

Looking at the 3 teams Mucca mentioned.

Fulham had 59% possession away at Sunderland on Saturday.

Sunderland had 51% possession away at Brentford the week before.

Everton did have lower possession (41%) Vs Bournemouth, but I can't see them doing that against us.

Even in the championship better teams like Middlesbrough, Ipswich and Southampton took the game to us, Watford too. I can't see any team in the PL other than Hull looking at us thinking they need to sit in a low block for 90 mins and let us have the ball.
 
shmmeee said:
In our third straight season of high fullbacks as a tactical choice and people are still blaming Dasilva and MvE for playing high like Lampard hasn’t asked that of them.
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Tbf, if anything Dasilva was too square for the goal on Saturday.
 
shmmeee said:
Yeah against most teams the pass isn’t that well weighted the cross isn’t that good first time on the byline and the header isn’t met that well or Amenda beaten. Thats what you get against top top sides.
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As Big Ron said 30 years ago:

I ain't whipping 'em for that
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My only real criticism of the goal is maybe JDS could have done more to close down Semenyo? At the time it looked like he took it for granted that the ball was going out.

Semenyo's cross was out of this world, it doesn't surprise me at all that Rushworth freaked out at it
 
Ccfc_Addy said:
My only real criticism of the goal is maybe JDS could have done more to close down Semenyo? At the time it looked like he took it for granted that the ball was going out.

Semenyo's cross was out of this world, it doesn't surprise me at all that Rushworth freaked out at it
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Happens to often with Dasilva, ball over the top, caught out of position.
 
SBAndy said:
So 2 things:

1. I think you’re massively over-egging how many will look to play a low block at our place. Hull are one, granted, but I’d be surprised if there’s more than one other. I also think it overestimates our ability to take the game to an opposition team in a traditional sense. We’ll be far better served soaking up pressure and hitting on the break this season. Very few others will accept stinking out a 0-0 against us.

2. Dasilva isn’t high for their goal, that channel would be open whether back 4 or back 5 given the positions on the pitch.
Click to expand...

Game state obviously influences things but I’m pretty certain we will at least have more possession at home versus:

Everton
Leeds
Sunderland

Possible:
Forest
Palace
Ipswich

A lot of these teams did had quite low possession (below 50%) v the relegated teams away from home last season.

Point 2 having rewatched the goal, you’re right on JDS’ positioning. Note that EMC (and Rudoni) were narrower than usual in a 4-2-3-1. 3-4-3 is a preferred formation of mine to be fair, like any formation, it was pressure points that can be exploited.
 
Almost feels like it’s the setup we recruited for. Agree it should be the same against Brighton - I think starting XI going forward will be:

Rushworth

Amenda Thomas Pinnock

MvE Yirenkyi Grimes JDS

Tchouana Gboho

Awoniyi

That plus Rudi/Cherif/Hamer/EMC off the bench is great. Desperate for a win this weekend to confirm what we saw on Saturday wasn’t an outlier mind.
 
David O'Day said:
some games we will play 3-4-3 and some games we will play 4-2-3-1 depending what they think will give us the best chance.

the most impressive thing about Saturday was the energy, pressing and bravery which if we had shown even in a 4-2-3-1 against Hull then we would have beaten them easily.
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Rather than messing around with alternating between 3CB's and 2CB's, meaning the defence aren't able to get settled why not play a 3-4-2-1, which could become a 3-4-3 or a 5-4-1 quite easily.
 
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Rather than messing around with alternating between 3CB's and 2CB's, meaning the defence aren't able to get settled why not play a 3-4-2-1, which could become a 3-4-3 or a 5-4-1 quite easily.
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Because some games well want the extra attacking player on the pitch.
 
CCFC96 said:
Almost feels like it’s the setup we recruited for. Agree it should be the same against Brighton - I think starting XI going forward will be:

Rushworth

Amenda Thomas Pinnock

MvE Yirenkyi Grimes JDS

Tchouana Gboho

Awoniyi

That plus Rudi/Cherif/Hamer/EMC off the bench is great. Desperate for a win this weekend to confirm what we saw on Saturday wasn’t an outlier mind.
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I think Onyeka will start ahead of Yirenkyi for his PL experience, a spine of Pinnock, Onyeka and Awoniyi all with 300 odd PL appearance between them..
 
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stupot07 said:
I think Onyeka will start ahead of Yirenkyi for his PL experience, a spine of Pinnock, Onyeka and Awoniyi all with 3900 odd PL appearance between them..
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Thats a lot of experience!
 
Saddlebrains said:
Absolutely has to stay no?

Thomas Amenda Pinnock are a solid back 3 to have, and I'm sure we are all happy with Dasilva and Milan as wing backs, both perfectly capable

I like the fact that whilst defending we shift into a 541 and become hard to break down, however going forward that becomes a 325, leaving the wing backs, the 2 10s and striker all forward, with one of the midfielders more advanced also.

Do you think Lampard sticks with it? Or do you feel he has wedded himself to the 4231/433 we've seen most in his time here?

I feel when everyone's fully fit our strongest side is:

Rushworth
Thomas Amenda Pinnock
Milan Yerenkyi Grimes Dasilva
Tchoauna Awoniyi Gboho

Leaving us able to change shape on the fly if needed with the likes of EMC, Rudoni, Haji, Hamer off the bench

(Yes I know i said I was fucking off but I genuinely am keen to know people's thoughts on our shape going into the next crucial games)
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Def stick with it Sunday..only problem is with grimes playing it’s a back 6… we lose a player from midfield.. I’d play hamer or yirenki in there at home..gives us another attacking option.. need to be a Bit braver than we were against hull
 
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shmmeee said:
Because some games well want the extra attacking player on the pitch.
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You get that by replacing a defensive minded midfielder for a more attack minded one.
 
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
You get that by replacing a defensive minded midfielder for a more attack minded one.
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Only one player you can drop to do that and that’s grimes…can’t see Lampard dropping his captain.. I’d prefer to see midfield 3 of. Onyeka yirenki rudoni at home….then you can either bring torp/ hamer on if we’re chasing a game or grimes to see it out.. got some great options in midfield
 
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Mucca Mad Boys said:
Game state obviously influences things but I’m pretty certain we will at least have more possession at home versus:

Everton
Leeds
Sunderland

Possible:
Forest
Palace
Ipswich

A lot of these teams did had quite low possession (below 50%) v the relegated teams away from home last season.

Point 2 having rewatched the goal, you’re right on JDS’ positioning. Note that EMC (and Rudoni) were narrower than usual in a 4-2-3-1. 3-4-3 is a preferred formation of mine to be fair, like any formation, it was pressure points that can be exploited.
Click to expand...

If we have more possession that those teams we're playing into their hands as that is where they thrive

Sunderland had 63% possession against Ipswich and looked toothless

We'll get them to try break us down and exploit the gaps they leave. Hull was the only exception for obvious reasons
 
One or two pundits criticised Rushworth for the cross that led to Halland's goal. Did look a bit suspect to me at a second glance
 
Hincha said:
If we have more possession that those teams we're playing into their hands as that is where they thrive

Sunderland had 63% possession against Ipswich and looked toothless

We'll get them to try break us down and exploit the gaps they leave. Hull was the only exception for obvious reasons
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Sunderland probably had that much possession because they went 1-0 down early doors.

This side of Xmas, we need to pick up as many points as possible because we play all of the big boys at home in the 2nd half of the season. There will be times when we may need force results.

There will be games where 3-4-3 is more appropriate and the same for 4-2-3-1.
 
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