Do you want to discuss boring politics? (13 Viewers)

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Ian1779

Ian1779

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Dec 6, 2012
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The US will indeed ensure a transfer once they have extracted everything they want from the country.

Trump couldn’t give a fuck about the Venezuelan’s that have ‘been denied democracy’

Stick the c**t in The Hague - next to Bush, Blair and Netanyahu.
 
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Sky Blue Pete

Sky Blue Pete

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Nov 24, 2012
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Mucca Mad Boys said:
Iraq and Venezuela are two completely different societies.

In any case, the Venezuelan people rejected Maduro at the ballot box twice, they were thwarted and had to watch the Chinese ‘pillage their natural resources’.

To be honest, Maduro should’ve been ousted in Trump’s first presidency. At least the 2024 election was a complete sham and showed just how tyrannical Maduro was - at one point the vote totals showed 127% of votes cast.



You and Pete not interacting with the point about Chinese ‘imperialism’ / ‘neocolonialism’ is quite insightful.

I know which side my bread is buttered and it’ll always be the USA/EU/UK > Russia/China/Iran. That doesn’t mean they’re beyond reproach, mind you.
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I agree
I’m happy to call out all imperial and colonial bullying that Russia and China have been involved in I just won’t pull my punches from USA just cause they’re a friend
 
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PVA

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Apr 22, 2011
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Mucca Mad Boys said:
The true target of the Venezuelan intervention is China. Outside of Russia and Central Asia, it’s China’s main provider of oil.
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Venezuela accounts for about 4% of China’s oil imports.

The main target was lining Trump’s and his backers pockets. That’s it.

Mucca Mad Boys said:
It’s not because you were talking as if Venezuelan oil was sovereign and it’s not.
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All natural resources belong to the sovereign state in which they are located.
 
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Brighton Sky Blue

Brighton Sky Blue

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Jan 11, 2012
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Sky Blue Pete said:
I agree
I’m happy to call out all imperial and colonial bullying that Russia and China have been involved in I just won’t pull my punches from USA just cause they’re a friend
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Trump does no wrong in his view. And if he ever does something bad, it’s because he was badly advised or someone else is ‘controlling’ him.

The West has been paralysed by this personality cult of one of the world’s greatest grifters. To Putin and Xi he’s the gift that keeps on giving.
 
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Mucca Mad Boys

Mucca Mad Boys

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PVA said:
Venezuela accounts for about 4% of China’s oil imports.

The main target was lining Trump’s and his backers pockets. That’s it.



All natural resources belong to the sovereign state in which they are located.
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That’s obviously the case, the point about it not being sovereign is that the Chinese are doing exactly what you accuse the US of trying to do.

The number is small today, that’s correct. Venezuela has the largest oil reserves in the world and one of the reasons they’re not exporting as much as they should is because the infrastructure is shot from years of US sanctions.

Either way, it’s pretty obvious that Venezuela is a key strategic geopolitical country for both China and the USA. This has been the case for close to a decade and any US President was probably going to take action against the regime. It’s been a US foreign policy objective since Chavez came to power.
 
Captain Dart

Captain Dart

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Mucca Mad Boys said:
Of course you’d say that… The people of Venezuela v much disagree with you even if US foreign policy was

You’re seemingly totally ignorant to the fact China was propping up the regime with ‘oil for loans’ deals and bringing its own companies to invest in Venezuelan oil infrastructure. Itself stealing oil wealth and doing its own “naked bully boy imperialism” as Rondog put it.

If you were aware of this, sure you’d surely have a more nuanced viewpoint. Then again, there’s plenty of posters on here and globally who’d have bad things about anything Trump does or say.
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I generally agree with that post.

China certainly spreads it's influence in a far more subtle way than the USA.
 
D

djr8369

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Jun 9, 2018
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Mucca Mad Boys said:
Copy and paste for most major powers through history. Ironically, the whole ‘rule based international order’ was a US construction and backed up because it was the global hegemon.

Now China and Russia flex their own muscles in the face of ‘international law’ the whole construct is dying if it isn’t already dead.
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Well yeah but this is people’s frustration with Trump. The US backed the post WW2 system with their military and in return got lots of stable trading partners. The construct had given us decades of relative peace and prosperity and is being dismantled by morons.

The worst thing is the Russians have clearly nurtured the situation to their own ends, and it’s mostly out there in the open in published works and social media interference, yet people have been turned on their fellow countrymen and are so angry they can’t see the obvious and cheer on the absurd.

To add salt to the wound we then have people like yourself saying things like “well actually there’s a geopolitical element to it”. Well no shit but most us prefer a construct that means our children will get to live in an era of peace rather than a construct which sees the major powers fight for the biggest share of resources.
 
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Mucca Mad Boys

Mucca Mad Boys

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djr8369 said:
Well yeah but this is people’s frustration with Trump. The US backed the post WW2 system with their military and in return got lots of stable trading partners. The construct had given us decades of relative peace and prosperity and is being dismantled by morons.

The worst thing is the Russians have clearly nurtured the situation to their own ends, and it’s mostly out there in the open in published works and social media interference, yet people have been turned on their fellow countrymen and are so angry they can’t see the obvious and cheer on the absurd.

To add salt to the wound we then have people like yourself saying things like “well actually there’s a geopolitical element to it”. Well no shit but most us prefer a construct that means our children will get to live in an era of peace rather than a construct which sees the major powers fight for the biggest share of resources.
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Russia conducted its operations between both Trump administrations… Trump has nothing to do with the likes of Russia and China aggressively undermining the international law and the ‘rule based order’.

Even during the Obama administration, the US was criticised for drone strike operations and the Bin Laden assassination also criticised for violating international law.

This ‘rule based order’ was always a construction and could only be sustained if the US was a sole hegemon. Even Russia protested furiously at NATO intervention in Yugoslavia and the recognition of Kosovo. In practice, because the UN Security Council comprises the UK, France, USA, China and Russia… there will rarely ever be a “legal” war because all 5 permanent members can exercise a veto. Lo and behold, it’s Russia and the US who have vetoed the most resolutions.

Major powers will almost always act in the own self-serving interests.
 
SIR ERNIE

SIR ERNIE

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Captain Dart said:
I generally agree with that post.

China certainly spreads it's influence in a far more subtle way than the USA.
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It's a kick in the balls for the global dominance ambitions of the Chinese Communist Party.

On that front alone it's a win not just for the US but for the West.
 
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djr8369

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Mucca Mad Boys said:
Russia conducted its operations between both Trump administrations… Trump has nothing to do with the likes of Russia and China aggressively undermining the international law and the ‘rule based order’.

Even during the Obama administration, the US was criticised for drone strike operations and the Bin Laden assassination also criticised for violating international law.

This ‘rule based order’ was always a construction and could only be sustained if the US was a sole hegemon. Even Russia protested furiously at NATO intervention in Yugoslavia and the recognition of Kosovo. In practice, because the UN Security Council comprises the UK, France, USA, China and Russia… there will rarely ever be a “legal” war because all 5 permanent members can exercise a veto. Lo and behold, it’s Russia and the US who have vetoed the most resolutions.

Major powers will almost always act in the own self-serving interests.
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You don’t seem to have understood my post at all.
 
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Mucca Mad Boys

Mucca Mad Boys

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djr8369 said:
You don’t seem to have understood my post at all.
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No, I haven’t at all. The post was there to demonstrate that this construct was always a sham.

During the Cold War, the official policy was ‘peace through strength’ and both main adversaries were too strong for a war to be worthwhile.

The same is true today and one of the main reasons Russia declared war on Ukraine (in my view) is because the Biden administration was weak on foreign policy.

There’s a reason the phrase "If you want peace, prepare for war" exists.
 
P

PVA

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Apr 22, 2011
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Mucca Mad Boys said:
That’s obviously the case, the point about it not being sovereign is that the Chinese are doing exactly what you accuse the US of trying to do.
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Unless the Chinese fly in, bomb the place and kidnap the president then what they're doing is absolutely nothing like what the US are trying to do 😅
 
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D

djr8369

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Mucca Mad Boys said:
No, I haven’t at all. The post was there to demonstrate that this construct was always a sham.

During the Cold War, the official policy was ‘peace through strength’ and both main adversaries were too strong for a war to be worthwhile.

The same is true today and one of the main reasons Russia declared war on Ukraine (in my view) is because the Biden administration was weak on foreign policy.

There’s a reason the phrase "If you want peace, prepare for war" exists.
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It worked pretty well for a good while for a sham.

Of course it wasn't the ideal and countries tested the limits an were rightly criticised for it, as the US is being now.
 
Mucca Mad Boys

Mucca Mad Boys

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djr8369 said:
It worked pretty well for a good while for a sham.

Of course it wasn't the ideal and countries tested the limits a were rightly criticised for it, as the US is being now.
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Did it? What examples would say demonstrates this. Most major interventions post-WW2 would have denounced by the other side. Not much has changed post-Cold War either.

PVA said:
Unless the Chinese fly in, bomb the place and kidnap the president then what they're doing is absolutely nothing like what the US are trying to do 😅
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No, they just prop dictatorships across the world.
 
The Philosopher

The Philosopher

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It was an SDP policy about 8 years ago which then got put in motion by the Conservatives. Starmer should stick to locking people up for social media posts and freeing dangerous prisoners and importing hate posters.

Some on here will fail to see just how awful he is. The amount of lies and incompetence is stunning.
 
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Brighton Sky Blue

Brighton Sky Blue

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The Philosopher said:
It was an SDP policy about 8 years ago which then got put in motion by the Conservatives. Starmer should stick to locking people up for social media posts and freeing dangerous prisoners and importing hate posters.

Some on here will fail to see just how awful he is. The amount of lies and incompetence is stunning.
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Childcare should be universal for all, up to two children anyway. He’s lied about making it more accessible for a long time now.
 
Captain Dart

Captain Dart

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Brighton Sky Blue said:
He’s said every 9 month to 4 year old will get free childcare. That’s just a lie.
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How many times do I need to say this you (or words meaning pretty much the same) can't believe anything a politician says or whatever party.
 
Captain Dart

Captain Dart

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Captain Dart

Captain Dart

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Grendel

Grendel

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Brighton Sky Blue said:
Childcare should be universal for all, up to two children anyway. He’s lied about making it more accessible for a long time now.
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This issue only bothers you as you personally would benefit from it
 
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Mucca Mad Boys

Mucca Mad Boys

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Turns out Reeves’ second budget has caused more disinvestment in the UK than Brexit.

2025 - £6.71bn taken out of global stock markets versus:
2016 - £3.34bn

Kind of ironic given the pretext for budget changes was… Brexit.

Unfortunately for Labour, this isn’t the year we’ll turn a corner. Terrible chancellor, terrible government. Get in the bin!
 
Brighton Sky Blue

Brighton Sky Blue

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Mucca Mad Boys said:
Turns out Reeves’ second budget has caused more disinvestment in the UK than Brexit.

2025 - £6.71bn taken out of global stock markets versus:
2016 - £3.34bn

Kind of ironic given the pretext for budget changes was… Brexit.

Unfortunately for Labour, this isn’t the year we’ll turn a corner. Terrible chancellor, terrible government. Get in the bin!
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Yes I’m sure the people you plan on voting for will turn the country around in no time.
 
Mucca Mad Boys

Mucca Mad Boys

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Brighton Sky Blue said:
Yes I’m sure the people you plan on voting for will turn the country around in no time.
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With respect, probably take lectures on economic management from potential Green voters.

Anyone who listens to Zach Polanski or anyone on the Labour Left and believes the plans are credible is seriously misguided.
 
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