nunchuckas
Well-Known Member
You're right, 100%. I apologise.
It's actually a pet peeve of mine when people use the left/right labels, especially when you consider how far the Overton Window has shifted in the UK in the last 10 years.
Embarrassing (21 Viewers)
- Thread starter Fergusons_Beard
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It's actually a pet peeve of mine when people use the left/right labels, especially when you consider how far the Overton Window has shifted in the UK in the last 10 years.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
They are far right though same as Corbyn’s Labour was far left. They believe in nationalism, they’re climate conspiracy theorists and they believe in a small state with power in the hands of industrialists. They’re pro natalism, anti communist anti feminist, pro street violence. Like at some point man it’s sat there quacking and tasting good with orange sauce you’ve got to call a spade a spade.
SHUNT31
Well-Known Member
Just because someone is ‘uneducated’ does not make them thick. They are very different.
A lot of reform voters will come from very working class backgrounds, such as construction etc so will not necessarily need to be educated. I am highly educated and have met builders much more intelligent than me. It’s a lazy argument.
As I have said, I’m very much in the centre. I do not like Reform for what it’s worth. That said, it’s is incredibly naive to think this country does not have an issue with immigration. It clearly does and it is not going to go away. How this is resolved isn’t on me, I’m not a politician. But the immigration system needs to be reformed.
We as a country are at a tipping point and my fear is the next Southport style attack, or terrorist attack will tip it over the edge. Having these views would be seen as far right in your eyes?
rob9872
Well-Known Member
Disagree. The party itself possibly, a close call, but the voters themselves in lots of cases imo, most likely aren't and probably know very little of them and see it as a protest vote.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
You’ve been reading too many newspapers. Go outside. The country is not at tipping point cos twenty people cos pissed in a town centre FFS.
SHUNT31
Well-Known Member
They’re really not. I live in a very conservative area which is likely going to be Reform in the future. Majority of people round here are not far-right.
bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
Just because someone doesn’t agree with the measures being taken to combat climate change, it’s doesn’t make them a conspiracy theorist.
Can you name a single consequence to planet earth of Britain not achieving net zero?
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
The purpose of a system is what it does - Wikipedia
The same was true of AfD or Wilders or Trump. Fascist parties rely on giving easy answers to low info voters.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Immigration from outside Europe is happening across the continent, it's not something that's only happening in the UK. The "tipping point" stuff has been used as long as I can remember, and the same was said when workers from Eastern Europe went to the country, and it didn't happen.
SHUNT31
Well-Known Member
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Nigel Farage says it is ‘absolutely nuts’ to call carbon dioxide a pollutant - Grantham Research Institute on climate change and the environment
In this news article Bob Ward responds to the claim by Reform UK leader that it is wrong to call carbon dioxide a pollutant.
www.lse.ac.uk
Pull the other one, it’s got bells on
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
If you think the 20% of the voting population (who mostly skew retired) saying they’re voting reform are about to rise up and start civil war then you need some time offline is all I’m going to say.
bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
A lot of people are going to get a shock next year when Reform take control of Coventry Council.
It’s an all out election, so unless something changes it’s looking like a certainty.
Those on the left would be better off dealing with people’s legitimate concerns rather than just calling them names
It’s an all out election, so unless something changes it’s looking like a certainty.
Those on the left would be better off dealing with people’s legitimate concerns rather than just calling them names
biggymania
Well-Known Member
This is one of the reasons why I think the far right is gaining ground, because there's nuance here isn't there. You can say the party has far right policies and you hope that shouting that may deter less extreme people from voting for them - but actually it seems to make people more determined because this gets equated to you labelling them as far right. In their minds, they're likely picking & choosing which bits of the Reform rhetoric they like.
Often the arguments against reform et al discredit that a problem exists at all, which infuriates people and pushes them further into the hands of these parties.
The polarisation is a massive part of the problem - neither side seems to want to concede that the other has valid points at all, because it's all so extreme. That way of debating, discussing has gotten us here. It's resulted in Trump getting voted in twice. The UK has left Europe because of it.
The way we discuss and debate is part of the problem that makes the far right possible.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Im saying what I believe is the truth. Maybe you shout things in the hope of persuading others but I have less lofty goals for SBT posts tbh.
bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
Nigel Farage says it is ‘absolutely nuts’ to call carbon dioxide a pollutant - Grantham Research Institute on climate change and the environment
In this news article Bob Ward responds to the claim by Reform UK leader that it is wrong to call carbon dioxide a pollutant.
Pull the other one, it’s got bells on
What are the consequences of Britain not achieving net zero?
SHUNT31
Well-Known Member
Honestly, this is why most struggle with people on the left.
They look down on anyone with a differing view, whilst insulting them in the process.
Sky Blue Goblin
Well-Known Member
Will they support the club in building a new stadium at the Butts
biggymania
Well-Known Member
I'm saying that labelling someone who votes for Reform as far right because some of their policies are is probably an own goal.
For the record, I'm not a reform voter, or even a conservative. I just think we've seen the results of this type of debating over and over again now - it's hubristic to continue.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Reform are a far right party by any sensible definition of the word. Their popularity doesn’t change that.
I couldn’t care less what the personal politics leading someone to vote for a far right party is the result is the same as if they were true believers.
SHUNT31
Well-Known Member
You seriously underestimate just how pissed off people outside your bubble are. Ironically, it may be you that needs to go out and engage with actual real people and get a grasp of the reality the UK finds itself in.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Yeah because people on the right never do anything like that.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Again of you think the majority of the country back violence on the streets it’s you who are in a bubble I’m afraid. There is zero evidence for your view. The people you speak to will be self selected to be near you geographically and socially.
Londonccfcfan
Well-Known Member
If these are rascist stickers handed out in a football ground then these fucjers should be banned. Pretty simple.
SHUNT31
Well-Known Member
Maybe it’s more prevalent to me considering most people my age are that politically aligned.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Maybe you just are human and do the same things all the other humans do but view them through a left right lens because you spend too much time consuming political content online?
bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
Lol far right
They’re basically 1990s Tories
The biggest issue currently driving them is illegal immigration.
Reform are advocating for people to be prevented from illegally crossing the border, in accordance with the law.
The fact that upholding the law is now considered “far right” shows just how far this country has fallen
bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
Will they support the club in building a new stadium at the Butts
Depends if there’s votes in it for them
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
I suppose when **some** Reform voters stop saying and doing far right things then it will stop. And, TBH, a good few of them are pretty close to NF, EDL and BF in attitude.
bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
What’s racist about them?
SHUNT31
Well-Known Member
What bubble were you in last year after Southport? There were riots up and down the country.
Where’s the evidence for your view then? I could turn that back around on you, the people you speak to are probably just as naive as you are.
Things are much more edgy now than they were last year.
rob9872
Well-Known Member
Way too far. They should be put in the bin, tell them you disagree, tell them not to use the club crest, but their right to hold that opinion is as valid as yours mine or anyone else's.
David O'Day
Well-Known Member
90s Tories?
People like John Major and Ken Clarke were 90s tories. Reform are very much to the right of them,