Embarrassing (8 Viewers)

[shmmeee]

Fire with fire I say

 

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[shmmeee]

Can we please stop labelling Reform voters as far right? Whilst lots of opinions will be an agenda pushed by some of them, these aren't NF or Britain First etc. I know lots of people who are consistently fed up with main stream political parties and are considering them. That's a concern because they're pretty much a one trick pony and don't yet have the gravitas or ideas to even form a sensible opposition, but such labels aren't helpful and will push people towards them.

They are far right though same as Corbyn’s Labour was far left. They believe in nationalism, they’re climate conspiracy theorists and they believe in a small state with power in the hands of industrialists. They’re pro natalism, anti communist anti feminist, pro street violence. Like at some point man it’s sat there quacking and tasting good with orange sauce you’ve got to call a spade a spade.

 

[SHUNT31]

Well...the demographics do indicate, that on the balance of probabilities, they are more likely to be thick.

I understand your point that every opinion and vote has equal weighting, regardless of how well researched they are. And I don't automatically label everyone with different political views to me as thick. But if they can't at least articulate what their opinion is, it's hard to have any respect for said opinion.

I have wasted far too much time trying to reason, and play devil's advocate with many people with far right views; to at least see their side of the argument. But, unfortunately, they've all just been propagandised, don't really understand what or how they want to achieve, just repeat the rhetoric of their idols.
And even their idols, they haven't put forward even a token manifesto, or any actual policies, or used any reputable economic evidence. Because they don't even need to, their demographic will lap it up, regardless. It's actually quite sad that these people are being exploited, by having their fears triggered and played up to by their heroes and the media.

Just because someone is ‘uneducated’ does not make them thick. They are very different.

A lot of reform voters will come from very working class backgrounds, such as construction etc so will not necessarily need to be educated. I am highly educated and have met builders much more intelligent than me. It’s a lazy argument.

As I have said, I’m very much in the centre. I do not like Reform for what it’s worth. That said, it’s is incredibly naive to think this country does not have an issue with immigration. It clearly does and it is not going to go away. How this is resolved isn’t on me, I’m not a politician. But the immigration system needs to be reformed.

We as a country are at a tipping point and my fear is the next Southport style attack, or terrorist attack will tip it over the edge. Having these views would be seen as far right in your eyes?

 

[rob9872]

They are far right though same as Corbyn’s Labour was far left. They believe in nationalism, they’re climate conspiracy theorists and they believe in a small state with power in the hands of industrialists. They’re pro natalism, anti communist anti feminist, pro street violence. Like at some point man it’s sat there quacking and tasting good with orange sauce you’ve got to call a spade a spade.

Disagree. The party itself possibly, a close call, but the voters themselves in lots of cases imo, most likely aren't and probably know very little of them and see it as a protest vote.

 

[shmmeee]

Just because someone is ‘uneducated’ does not make them thick. They are very different.

A lot of reform voters will come from very working class backgrounds, such as construction etc so will not necessarily need to be educated. I am highly educated and have met builders much more intelligent than me. It’s a lazy argument.

As I have said, I’m very much in the centre. I do not like Reform for what it’s worth. That said, it’s is incredibly naive to think this country does not have an issue with immigration. It clearly does and it is not going to go away. How this is resolved isn’t on me, I’m not a politician. But the immigration system needs to be reformed.

We as a country are at a tipping point and my fear is the next Southport style attack, or terrorist attack will tip it over the edge. Having these views would be seen as far right in your eyes?

You’ve been reading too many newspapers. Go outside. The country is not at tipping point cos twenty people cos pissed in a town centre FFS.

 

[SHUNT31]

They are far right though same as Corbyn’s Labour was far left. They believe in nationalism, they’re climate conspiracy theorists and they believe in a small state with power in the hands of industrialists. They’re pro natalism, anti communist anti feminist, pro street violence. Like at some point man it’s sat there quacking and tasting good with orange sauce you’ve got to call a spade a spade.

They’re really not. I live in a very conservative area which is likely going to be Reform in the future. Majority of people round here are not far-right.

 

[bigfatronssba]

they’re climate conspiracy theorists

Just because someone doesn’t agree with the measures being taken to combat climate change, it’s doesn’t make them a conspiracy theorist.

Can you name a single consequence to planet earth of Britain not achieving net zero?

 

[shmmeee]

Disagree. The party itself possibly, a close call, but the voters themselves in lots of cases imo, most likely aren't and probably know very little of them and see it as a protest vote.

The purpose of a system is what it does - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

The same was true of AfD or Wilders or Trump. Fascist parties rely on giving easy answers to low info voters.

 

[Sick Boy]

Just because someone is ‘uneducated’ does not make them thick. They are very different.

A lot of reform voters will come from very working class backgrounds, such as construction etc so will not necessarily need to be educated. I am highly educated and have met builders much more intelligent than me. It’s a lazy argument.

As I have said, I’m very much in the centre. I do not like Reform for what it’s worth. That said, it’s is incredibly naive to think this country does not have an issue with immigration. It clearly does and it is not going to go away. How this is resolved isn’t on me, I’m not a politician. But the immigration system needs to be reformed.

We as a country are at a tipping point and my fear is the next Southport style attack, or terrorist attack will tip it over the edge. Having these views would be seen as far right in your eyes?

Immigration from outside Europe is happening across the continent, it's not something that's only happening in the UK. The "tipping point" stuff has been used as long as I can remember, and the same was said when workers from Eastern Europe went to the country, and it didn't happen.

 

[SHUNT31]

You’ve been reading too many newspapers. Go outside. The country is not at tipping point cos twenty people cos pissed in a town centre FFS.

You haven’t got a clue about the state of this country, clearly.

So naive.

 

[shmmeee]

Just because someone doesn’t agree with the measures being taken to combat climate change, it’s doesn’t make them a conspiracy theorist.

Can you name a single consequence to planet earth of Britain not achieving net zero?

Nigel Farage says it is ‘absolutely nuts’ to call carbon dioxide a pollutant - Grantham Research Institute on climate change and the environment

In this news article Bob Ward responds to the claim by Reform UK leader that it is wrong to call carbon dioxide a pollutant.

www.lse.ac.uk

Pull the other one, it’s got bells on

 

[shmmeee]

You haven’t got a clue about the state of this country, clearly.

So naive.

If you think the 20% of the voting population (who mostly skew retired) saying they’re voting reform are about to rise up and start civil war then you need some time offline is all I’m going to say.

 

[bigfatronssba]

A lot of people are going to get a shock next year when Reform take control of Coventry Council.

It’s an all out election, so unless something changes it’s looking like a certainty.

Those on the left would be better off dealing with people’s legitimate concerns rather than just calling them names

 

[biggymania]

They are far right though same as Corbyn’s Labour was far left. They believe in nationalism, they’re climate conspiracy theorists and they believe in a small state with power in the hands of industrialists. They’re pro natalism, anti communist anti feminist, pro street violence. Like at some point man it’s sat there quacking and tasting good with orange sauce you’ve got to call a spade a spade.

This is one of the reasons why I think the far right is gaining ground, because there's nuance here isn't there. You can say the party has far right policies and you hope that shouting that may deter less extreme people from voting for them - but actually it seems to make people more determined because this gets equated to you labelling them as far right. In their minds, they're likely picking & choosing which bits of the Reform rhetoric they like.

Often the arguments against reform et al discredit that a problem exists at all, which infuriates people and pushes them further into the hands of these parties.

The polarisation is a massive part of the problem - neither side seems to want to concede that the other has valid points at all, because it's all so extreme. That way of debating, discussing has gotten us here. It's resulted in Trump getting voted in twice. The UK has left Europe because of it.

The way we discuss and debate is part of the problem that makes the far right possible.

 

[shmmeee]

This is one of the reasons why I think the far right is gaining ground, because there's nuance here isn't there. You can say the party has far right policies and you hope that shouting that may deter less extreme people from voting for them - but actually it seems to make people more determined because this gets equated to you labelling them as far right. In their minds, they're likely picking & choosing which bits of the Reform rhetoric they like.

Often the arguments against reform et al discredit that a problem exists at all, which infuriates people and pushes them further into the hands of these parties.

The polarisation is a massive part of the problem - neither side seems to want to concede that the other has valid points at all, because it's all so extreme. That way of debating, discussing has gotten us here. It's resulted in Trump getting voted in twice. The UK has left Europe because of it.

The way we discuss and debate is part of the problem that makes the far right possible.

Im saying what I believe is the truth. Maybe you shout things in the hope of persuading others but I have less lofty goals for SBT posts tbh.

 

[bigfatronssba]

Nigel Farage says it is ‘absolutely nuts’ to call carbon dioxide a pollutant - Grantham Research Institute on climate change and the environment

In this news article Bob Ward responds to the claim by Reform UK leader that it is wrong to call carbon dioxide a pollutant.

www.lse.ac.uk

Pull the other one, it’s got bells on

What are the consequences of Britain not achieving net zero?

 

[SHUNT31]

A lot of people are going to get a shock next year when Reform take control of Coventry Council.

It’s an all out election, so unless something changes it’s looking like a certainty.

Those on the left would be better off dealing with people’s legitimate concerns rather than just calling them names

Honestly, this is why most struggle with people on the left.

They look down on anyone with a differing view, whilst insulting them in the process.

 

[Sky Blue Goblin]

A lot of people are going to get a shock next year when Reform take control of Coventry Council.

It’s an all out election, so unless something changes it’s looking like a certainty.

Those on the left would be better off dealing with people’s legitimate concerns rather than just calling them names

Will they support the club in building a new stadium at the Butts

 

[biggymania]

Im saying what I believe is the truth. Maybe you shout things in the hope of persuading others but I have less lofty goals for SBT posts tbh.

I'm saying that labelling someone who votes for Reform as far right because some of their policies are is probably an own goal.

For the record, I'm not a reform voter, or even a conservative. I just think we've seen the results of this type of debating over and over again now - it's hubristic to continue.

 

[shmmeee]

I'm saying that labelling someone who votes for Reform as far right because some of their policies are is probably an own goal.

For the record, I'm not a reform voter, or even a conservative. I just think we've seen the results of this type of debating over and over again now - it's hubristic to continue.

Reform are a far right party by any sensible definition of the word. Their popularity doesn’t change that.

I couldn’t care less what the personal politics leading someone to vote for a far right party is the result is the same as if they were true believers.

 

[SHUNT31]

If you think the 20% of the voting population (who mostly skew retired) saying they’re voting reform are about to rise up and start civil war then you need some time offline is all I’m going to say.

You seriously underestimate just how pissed off people outside your bubble are. Ironically, it may be you that needs to go out and engage with actual real people and get a grasp of the reality the UK finds itself in.

 

[Sick Boy]

Honestly, this is why most struggle with people on the left.

They look down on anyone with a differing view, whilst insulting them in the process.

Yeah because people on the right never do anything like that.

 

[shmmeee]

You seriously underestimate just how pissed off people outside your bubble are. Ironically, it may be you that needs to go out and engage with actual real people and get a grasp of the reality the UK finds itself in.

Again of you think the majority of the country back violence on the streets it’s you who are in a bubble I’m afraid. There is zero evidence for your view. The people you speak to will be self selected to be near you geographically and socially.

 

[Londonccfcfan]

Did nobody see who was handing them out?

If these are rascist stickers handed out in a football ground then these fucjers should be banned. Pretty simple.

 

[SHUNT31]

Yeah because people on the right never do anything like that.

Maybe it’s more prevalent to me considering most people my age are that politically aligned.

 

[shmmeee]

Maybe it’s more prevalent to me considering most people my age are that politically aligned.

Maybe you just are human and do the same things all the other humans do but view them through a left right lens because you spend too much time consuming political content online?

 

[bigfatronssba]

Reform are a far right party by any sensible definition of the word. Their popularity doesn’t change that.

I couldn’t care less what the personal politics leading someone to vote for a far right party is the result is the same as if they were true believers.

Lol far right

They’re basically 1990s Tories

The biggest issue currently driving them is illegal immigration.

Reform are advocating for people to be prevented from illegally crossing the border, in accordance with the law.

The fact that upholding the law is now considered “far right” shows just how far this country has fallen

 

[bigfatronssba]

Will they support the club in building a new stadium at the Butts

Depends if there’s votes in it for them

 

[Sick Boy]

Maybe it’s more prevalent to me considering most people my age are that politically aligned.

Nice...

Just so im clear then you dont believe in democracy and people having a choice when it comes to politics you far left prick

 

[torchomatic]

Can we please stop labelling Reform voters as far right? Whilst lots of opinions will be an agenda pushed by some of them, these aren't NF or Britain First etc. I know lots of people who are consistently fed up with main stream political parties and are considering them. That's a concern because they're pretty much a one trick pony and don't yet have the gravitas or ideas to even form a sensible opposition, but such labels aren't helpful and will push people towards them.

I suppose when **some** Reform voters stop saying and doing far right things then it will stop. And, TBH, a good few of them are pretty close to NF, EDL and BF in attitude.

 

[bigfatronssba]

If these are rascist stickers handed out in a football ground then these fucjers should be banned. Pretty simple.

What’s racist about them?

 

[SHUNT31]

Again of you think the majority of the country back violence on the streets it’s you who are in a bubble I’m afraid. There is zero evidence for your view. The people you speak to will be self selected to be near you geographically and socially.

What bubble were you in last year after Southport? There were riots up and down the country.

Where’s the evidence for your view then? I could turn that back around on you, the people you speak to are probably just as naive as you are.

Things are much more edgy now than they were last year.

 

[rob9872]

If these are rascist stickers handed out in a football ground then these fucjers should be banned. Pretty simple.

Way too far. They should be put in the bin, tell them you disagree, tell them not to use the club crest, but their right to hold that opinion is as valid as yours mine or anyone else's.

 

[David O'Day]

Lol far right

They’re basically 1990s Tories

The biggest issue currently driving them is illegal immigration.

Reform are advocating for people to be prevented from illegally crossing the border, in accordance with the law.

The fact that upholding the law is now considered “far right” shows just how far this country has fallen

90s Tories?

People like John Major and Ken Clarke were 90s tories. Reform are very much to the right of them,

 

[Sick Boy]

Lol far right

They’re basically 1990s Tories

The biggest issue currently driving them is illegal immigration.

Reform are advocating for people to be prevented from illegally crossing the border, in accordance with the law.

The fact that upholding the law is now considered “far right” shows just how far this country has fallen

How is Reform like The Conservatives under Major?