Butts Park Arena is new home (1 Viewer)

[Grendel]

So you are saying that a 20k stadium would fit on the Butts site?

Most agree that we could get by with a 20k stadium. We would be able to get about 18k of home and away supporters in. What has been said in the main on this thread is that the Butts isn't big enough. That is because it isn't.

I'm not a professional developer -!o wouldn't know if it's big enough for 20,000 - I never knew so many architects and building developers supported CCFC

 

[Astute]

I'm not a professional developer -!o wouldn't know if it's big enough for 20,000 - I never knew so many architects and building developers supported CCFC

Do you at least know how small the plot is? Do you go to away games so know more than the two grounds that we have had and how much space is needed? Are you going to pretend that you don't know anything about the difficulties on building in a built up area?

What you need is common sense and not wanting to argue against it.

 

[lifeskyblue]

Seems to me that looking at the historical attendances shows the blindingly obvious. If you are in the top tier of football you on avg get higher gates than clubs lower down. If we have ambitions of ever returning to the premier league then we need a capacity that reflects that (either through the completed article or through potential expansion). In my opinion the Butts can't do that and therefore we need to either bite the bullet and work with Wasps or look for another piece of land that could be developed to 30k + stadium.
Yes we all want our 'own' ground but that didn't happen when we left Highfield rd. Our then owners and more recent owners missed opportunities to put the club in a less precarious financial position by owning the stadium. We can go over the same tired arguments again and again but we are where we are. The important thing is have Anderson (steep learning curve he must be on), Sisu and the council learnt the lessons and have they the will to work together, initially certainly with wasps, and protect and develop the future of CCFC


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[Grendel]

Do you at least know how small the plot is? Do you go to away games so know more than the two grounds that we have had and how much space is needed? Are you going to pretend that you don't know anything about the difficulties on building in a built up area?

What you need is common sense and not wanting to argue against it.

So tell me how many square metres is the plot then?

 

[Grendel]

Seems to me that looking at the historical attendances shows the blindingly obvious. If you are in the top tier of football you on avg get higher gates than clubs lower down. If we have ambitions of ever returning to the premier league then we need a capacity that reflects that (either through the completed article or through potential expansion). In my opinion the Butts can't do that and therefore we need to either bite the bullet and work with Wasps or look for another piece of land that could be developed to 30k + stadium.
Yes we all want our 'own' ground but that didn't happen when we left Highfield rd. Our then owners and more recent owners missed opportunities to put the club in a less precarious financial position by owning the stadium. We can go over the same tired arguments again and again but we are where we are. The important thing is have Anderson (steep learning curve he must be on), Sisu and the council learnt the lessons and have they the will to work together, initially certainly with wasps, and protect and develop the future of CCFC


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You could actually survive financially in the premier league very easily on small attendances.

There are many property developers who are CCFC fans but, sadly, few are economists.

 

[italiahorse]

So tell me how many square metres is the plot then?

The spare ground along the Coventry canal is enough to put Wembley Stadium in but its not the right shape.
There's more to building a stadium than square metres.

 

[Grendel]

The spare ground along the Coventry canal is enough to put Wembley Stadium in but its not the right shape.
There's more to building a stadium than square metres.

I thought the Butts was a stadium? Are you saying it's designed like a canal?

It's got a safety certificate for 10,000 now hasn't it?

 

[italiahorse]

You could actually survive financially in the premier league very easily on small attendances.

There are many property developers who are CCFC fans but, sadly, few are economists.

So we could also survive in the PL at the Ricoh ? Particularly with a good deal.

 

[Astute]

So tell me how many square metres is the plot then?

And how many square metres does a 20k stadium need? How about the space around it? How far away from the train line would it need to be that is right on one of the corners of the present pitch? How far away from the narrow stand would it need to be built away from the building right behind it? And the land isn't an oblong shape. So not only is space around it needed but not all of the land could be used.

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

Seems to me that looking at the historical attendances shows the blindingly obvious.

Yep...its quite clear from the list that 20,000 capacity is ample.

 

[Astute]

I thought the Butts was a stadium? Are you saying it's designed like a canal?

It's got a safety certificate for 10,000 now hasn't it?

Has it? So about 8k stand around the pitch?

 

[Astute]

Yep...its quite clear from the list that 20,000 capacity is ample.

Presently yes. And how many disagree with this?

 

[chiefdave]

You could actually survive financially in the premier league very easily on small attendances.

There are many property developers who are CCFC fans but, sadly, few are economists.

Aston Villa, West Ham and Everton are all in the Deloittes Football Money League top 25 (for 2013/14) yet total matchday incomes for those team represents on 12%, 17% and 16% respectively. For the same season 82% of Swansea's revenue came from TV rights.

 

[italiahorse]

I thought the Butts was a stadium? Are you saying it's designed like a canal?

It's got a safety certificate for 10,000 now hasn't it?

You said the plot !!
Waste of time discussing this. If we settle for the Butts we settle for mediocrity.

 

[Grendel]

And how many square metres does a 20k stadium need? How about the space around it? How far away from the train line would it need to be that is right on one of the corners of the present pitch? How far away from the narrow stand would it need to be built away from the building right behind it? And the land isn't an oblong shape. So not only is space around it needed but not all of the land could be used.

I'm not a town planner so I don't know.

Cant the car park at the front be used and the pitch moved forward?

How does the square metres compare to current grounds built in housing areas?

They did say 12-15,000 to start - in theory as a non property expert I would say that's possible.

 

[chiefdave]

So we could also survive in the PL at the Ricoh ? Particularly with a good deal.

And how are we going to finance getting to the PL?

 

[lifeskyblue]

If we have ambitions of premier league we need a facility that could in time be developed as big as Leicester (last season avg 31k), Southampton (30k) or Stoke (27k)
Overall attendances in the top flight have grown since we were last there. We shouldn't look at the numbers we had then but where we finished in avg attendance and look at where that would put us today. In my opinion 20k fine for championship but not premier league


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[jimmyhillsfanclub]

Presently yes. And how many disagree with this?

Not just presently, historically too.....in "modern" football terms at least.

Worst case scenario would be that a few bandwagoners couldn't get a ticket for the occasional big game......or we just reduce the away allocation to the minimum requirement.


Look at the stats....even whilst in the top flight & as recent cup winners, we struggled to muster 20000 average & that often included 4K of away fans....

How many times have we filled the ricoh.....once in 10 years....maybe twice if we're being generous to the soulless shit pit....

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

18k start with expansion to 25k would be good.

 

[italiahorse]

And how are we going to finance getting to the PL?

The same pie in the sky formula that Grendel used for surviving in the PL on 15,000

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

The same pie in the sky formula that Grendel used for surviving in the PL on 15,000

How did Burnley survive a few years back when they gave away free renewals on season tickets?
Premier league teams get about 10-15% of their money from tickets. The rest is sponsorship and tv money. With this in mind I'm fairly sure we'd survive financially in the premiership on 15k attendances.

 

[chiefdave]

The same pie in the sky formula that Grendel used for surviving in the PL on 15,000

Staying in the PL would be easier than getting there as the % of revenue from matchday is far lower so if we had a smaller ground or were renting off Wasps it would be possible.

Its getting there that is the hardest part. We have been told that under Wasps we will not be able to be competitive at Championship level so what is your solution?

 

[Senior Vick from Alicante]

Sorry to piss on every ones chips including the author of the article but a move to the butts is financial suicide. If you get promotion this year and put another 6 to 7000 arses on seats you would earn at an average of £15 pound a ticket 2.7 million a season, if you get to the prem attendances and prices are even higher. Its just not financially viable to go to a ground with a lower capacity if you have a well supported successful team, the club need to think outside the box for extra revenue. What extra income would you attract at the butts, lower capacity equals less pie and beer money, how much more or less than they are being given now at the Ricoh would need to be worked out. Where would the conferencing and hotel facilities be put that Tim has suggested, its a financial no brainer for me, get a long term deal with Wasps sorted as quick as possible and put to bed the pie in the sky idea of a new stadium. PUSB

 

[italiahorse]

Staying in the PL would be easier than getting there as the % of revenue from matchday is far lower so if we had a smaller ground or were renting off Wasps it would be possible.

Its getting there that is the hardest part. We have been told that under Wasps we will not be able to be competitive at Championship level so what is your solution?

'NOBODY' has come up with a solution to that probem.

 

[chiefdave]

Its just not financially viable to go to a ground with a lower capacity if you have a well supported successful team

We don't have a well supported successful team!

 

[Houdi]

Haven't read all this thread but I think it wasn't until post 277 , before anyone seriously mentioned 1 party who seemed to be forgotten in all this.For the past year or so most fans have moaned about Wasps coming here and stealing our stadium, but now seem quite relaxed about us seemingly walking in and taking over the Butts.
Ptesently CRFC have I believe a long lease at the Butts, surely they will have a say in all this,what about their need to access revenue streams,would even if it were feasible would Coventry Rugby gates circa 1000-1500 be happy playing in a stadium capacity of say 15000.
Why should they simply hand over their stadium just for our benefit, and with SISU's ruthless reputation, you would imagine the owners at Cov Rugby would think long and hard over getting more deeply involved with SISU. Put simply where do Coventry Rugby benefit in all this?

 

[Senior Vick from Alicante]

Its better than last year and if all continues in its present vein watch the fair weather guys start coming back. If we reach the playoffs we would sell the Ricoh out, its just turning that in to a longer term commitment.

 

[Nick]

Haven't read all this thread but I think it wasn't until post 277 , before anyone seriously mentioned 1 party who seemed to be forgotten in all this.For the past year or so most fans have moaned about Wasps coming here and stealing our stadium, but now seem quite relaxed about us seemingly walking in and taking over the Butts.
Ptesently CRFC have I believe a long lease at the Butts, surely they will have a say in all this,what about their need to access revenue streams,would even if it were feasible would Coventry Rugby gates circa 1000-1500 be happy playing in a stadium capacity of say 15000.
Why should they simply hand over their stadium just for our benefit, and with SISU's ruthless reputation, you would imagine the owners at Cov Rugby would think long and hard over getting more deeply involved with SISU. Put simply where do Coventry Rugby benefit in all this?

I did! Don't know if that was the post 277 though

 

[chiefdave]

Ptesently CRFC have I believe a long lease at the Butts

That's your answer, nothing is going to happen without their involvement. In the past, before we buggered off to Northampton, Rossborough was on CWR and said he had no issues with us groundsharing the Butts and the rugby club had a great relationship with the football club and woudl do anything they could to help.

Certainly wouldn't want to screw over the rugby club.

 

[skybluesam66]

While we are at it - what about a speedway track around the perimeter - the bees are after a new home

Speedway friday
Footy Saturday
Rugby Sunday

 

[letsallsingtogether]

We wouldn't, in the championship we'd be getting 14-16k regularly with the odd big game or local derby 18-20k


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Exactly so why build a 12000 seater stadium you would struggle to get tickets for some games even this season.
After all look at the figures Tim gave us for Shit fields

 

[duffer]

Sorry to piss on every ones chips including the author of the article but a move to the butts is financial suicide. If you get promotion this year and put another 6 to 7000 arses on seats you would earn at an average of £15 pound a ticket 2.7 million a season, if you get to the prem attendances and prices are even higher. Its just not financially viable to go to a ground with a lower capacity if you have a well supported successful team, the club need to think outside the box for extra revenue. What extra income would you attract at the butts, lower capacity equals less pie and beer money, how much more or less than they are being given now at the Ricoh would need to be worked out. Where would the conferencing and hotel facilities be put that Tim has suggested, its a financial no brainer for me, get a long term deal with Wasps sorted as quick as possible and put to bed the pie in the sky idea of a new stadium. PUSB

Sorry to piss on your chips too, but what access to revenue are Wasps going to give us exactly? This will be a hugely limiting factor under FFP, and more so in the Championship if we should ever get there.

Almost twenty years ago we gambled the club's future on building a huge, flash stadium for bigger attendances then we've ever been able to maintain - this based on us being and staying in the top division. We've seen the result and it genuinely was financial suicide.

The last thing we need is another grandiose scheme based on the suggestion of future glory, but I also don't see much future at the Ricoh for us beyond the level we're at.

The Butts, very unlikely as it is to actually happen (imho), is about the best compromise solution I've seen so far.

 

[chiefdave]

why build a 12000 seater stadium

Not singling you out but why are people stating as fact that its 12K? The Reid article says 12-15K or 20K plus if we get promoted.

 

[bezzer]

How did Burnley survive a few years back when they gave away free renewals on season tickets?
Premier league teams get about 10-15% of their money from tickets. The rest is sponsorship and tv money. With this in mind I'm fairly sure we'd survive financially in the premiership on 15k attendances.

Don't let facts get in the way of Italia's stupidity......

 

[Greggs]

A 2 tiered 18000-20000 seater with option to add-on.