Butts Park Arena is new home (1 Viewer)

[martcov]

Car Parking ? There was non at Highfield Road - and then gates were much higher in the Premiership and Championship (early days). 35,000 plus ? We all found somewhere to park and walk up.

There were not as many car owners percentage wise and we were prepared to walk to HR from Pool Meadow. Whether people are prepared to Walk e.g. in pouring rain from the station to the Butts these days ...

 

[Nick]

What kind of buyers do you think will be queuing up to buy the football club with no/little prospect of owning the stadium?

Am sure I have seen this on here before but there are number of clubs who rent stadiums long term and have been bought and sold.
I know Man City rent, so do Brighton, am sure many others.
All I am trying to say is the club is sellable if they have a long term home.

But man city and Brighton are different situations to ours aren't they? What happens when it gets more and more branded for wasps for example?

It's not just about paying rent every month, it's what the club gets and things on a wider scale.

 

[SkyBlueZack]

Do you have figures or calculations for staying at the ricoh? You have no more idea than anyone else on here. It has been said by an expert staying at the ricoh would limit us to champ football at best. So there is more evidence than you seem to provide about staying.

 

[covcity4life]

this may just be posturing to pressure wasps into a better deal perhaps?

when is anderson meeting wasps?

 

[martcov]

None that have the ground owned by a private sporting rival to my knowledge no. Who do you have in mind? Perhaps Stockport County to be fair - there's a business model to be proud of.

Are you acknowledging that a minority sport franchise is a sporting rival to CCFC? Have CCFC fans dropped CCFC for Wasps in any numbers? Even Italia keeps his ST for City.

 

[Donato's Truncheon]

No, Anderson will need to talk to them because a) our current deal runs out in September, b) any new stadium will take 8-10 years to build and c) there isn't going to be a stadium anyway. We have no choice but to talk to them.

Wasps owner has said there will be no change of ownership of ACL, they have subsequently done the bond scheme and used ACL and the leasehold as security.

OSB has outlined in another thread the financial reasons why wasps won't/can't sell shares and why wasps won't/can't takeover ccfc.

Unless wasps go tits up (unlikely) or a Russian or Arab billionaire comes in (even more unlikely now because of the complexity of 3 loss making organisations) the ccfc is never going to own 50%+ of ACL.

I don’t necessarily disagree with you Stupot – I just keep coming back to the unavoidable feeling that Coventry only needs one stadium, and that it’s more viable for all concerned with two high-profile clubs rather than one.

Regarding Arabs and Russians – both those parts of the world are under terrible pressure now because of oil prices. And China could be on a bit of a slide too. The era of mega-rich benefactors might have come to a close just as we need one more than ever.

 

[SkyBlueZack]

How do people claim 12 to 15k is unambitious yet are happy being wasps tenants?

 

[italiahorse]

Do you have figures or calculations for staying at the ricoh? You have no more idea than anyone else on here. It has been said by an expert staying at the ricoh would limit us to champ football at best. So there is more evidence than you seem to provide about staying.

I'm not saying either will get us to the PL I'm saying that staying at the Ricoh is better than building a new stadium in view of the situation we are now in. IMHO

A lot of this is driven by Wasps changing the building for themselves and the vision of us watching football in a gold and black stadium.
Just maybe if we get a 10 year running deal we will get the opportunity to personalise it.
If we are leaving and still think legally we can get the stadium back we won't.

 

[ricohroar]

a 20,000 stadium is OK for league 1, but I think a lot are forgetting a 20,000 stadium isn't 20,000 Coventry fans, on a big cup draw giving 1/4 to away fans and the segregation would only able 12,000 - 13,000 City fans, where we all know the slightest hint of success this city will attract 20,000 - 25,000 easily, so who's going to miss out? take out of that 12-13,000 fans the corporate lot of 2000? room for City V Man U home quarter final FA cup drawer of erm 10,000

 

[italiahorse]

How do people claim 12 to 15k is unambitious yet are happy being wasps tenants?

Wasps tenants or Sisu tenants when I turn up on matchday's to watch my club it's my stadium and the away fans i talk too are impressed and say how lucky we are.

Lets get back to the football, absorb the atmosphere of the day and forget the politics. Like we used too until Sisu put it in our faces.

 

[martcov]

Do you have figures or calculations for staying at the ricoh? You have no more idea than anyone else on here. It has been said by an expert staying at the ricoh would limit us to champ football at best. So there is more evidence than you seem to provide about staying.

We have yet to hear how we could survive in the Championship with a 12000 Seat stadium and what exactly the "365 day" supposed income would be. I think that CA is here to calculate an exact comparison based on actual figures and statistical Projections.
TF got it wrong at Northampton and an expert without all the information can also be wrong.

 

[stupot07]

What kind of buyers do you think will be queuing up to buy the football club with no/little prospect of owning the stadium?

Am sure I have seen this on here before but there are number of clubs who rent stadiums long term and have been bought and sold.
I know Man City rent, so do Brighton, am sure many others.
All I am trying to say is the club is sellable if they have a long term home.

We know clubs rent, how many football clubs have a matchday only rental deal with no/little access to matchday or addition revenue? As far as I know man city and Brighton have a 365 day year lease.

Man city do events and conference so get 365 day income http://www.mcfc.co.uk/Non-MatchDay-Hospitality

As do Brighton http://www.eventsatbhafc.co.uk/whats-on/christmas-parties-brighton.php

Plus they will get stadium sponsorship, stand sponsorship, ability to sell advertising across the stadium (we get pitchside only), 100% f&b's, potentially car parking, etc.

You can't compare our rental deal with others who rent the whole stadium 365 day per annum.


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[hackneyfox]

However if we became a stable Premier League club, 20,000 isn't enough. Look at clubs similar to our size like Leicester, Southampton and even Stoke. It really limits where we could progress to as a club.

You stopped being similar to our size some time ago
We're looking to expand the stadium to 37k with a n option of 42k, you'd be mad to move to a stadium which can only expand to 20k.

 

[Grendel]

Are you acknowledging that a minority sport franchise is a sporting rival to CCFC? Have CCFC fans dropped CCFC for Wasps in any numbers? Even Italia keeps his ST for City.

Of course it is a rival. Wasps say they want 90% of their fanbase with a CV postcode. To suggest none of those have ever watched the football club is absurd

 

[stupot07]

Owners that see a football team with a long term deal including access to incomes and no stadium costs or stadium debt ?

As I have said before, Sisu will own the stadium and rent it back to us. The stadium investors will have access to the 'other' incomes and we will get a percentage. What's the difference ?

In addition if they are buying a 12,000 seater stadium they will need to extend it if they have any ambition.

The difference is sisu sell the stadium and the football club and it's more attractive to owners as they have something tangible on their balance sheet, not a 250 year liability of rent with little to show for it.

I'm not agreeing with this 12-15k stadium I'm disagreeing with blindly staying at the Ricoh for the next 250 years as tenants, hoping for the best.

We need to see the business case but people seem to have written off a new stadium before they have seen one.

We know we will be at the Ricoh for the next 10 years, but longer term who knows.


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[ccfcway]

View attachment 4788

knock down the exisiting stand and rotate the whole thing, so the pitch is parallel to the railway track.

Plenty of room then !

 

[stupot07]

Are you acknowledging that a minority sport franchise is a sporting rival to CCFC? Have CCFC fans dropped CCFC for Wasps in any numbers? Even Italia keeps his ST for City.

There are a few on my Twitter feed that are called skyblue****, or ccfc*** etc who no longer go to ccfc games but now have wasps ST's. I had to do a Twitter cull.


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[martcov]

Of course it is a rival. Wasps say they want 90% of their fanbase with a CV postcode. To suggest none of those have ever watched the football club is absurd

Who suggested that? The question was "have CCFC fans dropped CCFC to support Wasps in any Great numbers"? If not, then why worry about Wasps?

 

[Astute]

Do you have figures or calculations for staying at the ricoh? You have no more idea than anyone else on here. It has been said by an expert staying at the ricoh would limit us to champ football at best. So there is more evidence than you seem to provide about staying.

And a small stadium at the Butts would do what?

Our main income is ticket sales. A small stadium would limit us more than anything else.

 

[Kingokings204]

If we are honest it will never happen. Let's meet back in 20 years time we won't be playing at the butts in a 20k stadium.

I would love it to happen and of course we need our own stadium for ffp etc. get all that but we have a stadium in Coventry with great transport links and holds 32k and it's already built.

Now wasps own it and I hate that and no I've never been to a wasps game. But we need to apply pressure and get a foot in the door. Wasps won't be in Coventry forever and already failing by all accounts. Combine that with the clout of championship football with a promotion and 20k plus crowds. We really hold all some good cards.

(P.s didn't Anderson or fisher say it will be outside of Cov council boundaries? Well the butts is in it)

 

[Otis]

Car Parking ? There was non at Highfield Road - and then gates were much higher in the Premiership and Championship (early days). 35,000 plus ? We all found somewhere to park and walk up.

The Butts area is an ideal location but its just not big enough and very little room for expansion. Those retirement flats at back of stand have sold well and am sure the owners and builders would not be to happy with a football ground being built next door.

My Daughter lives in the small block on the corner (over road from closed pub) and we go to Butts regularly, I do not think there is enough land, also parking is an absolute nightmare.

There is next to no room for expansion. Yep, you might well get your 12,000-15,000 thousand seater at a push, but that would be it I would reckon. Then, if and when we get to the Premier we are all going to bemoan that is it far too small.

On the parking, as Steve says, we could park right by Highfield Road. there's already pretty much nowhere to park now at the Butts, let alone when a stadium was built and further restrictions would be put in place.

Think you will find a lot of the parking close to the Butts is one hour maximum (up Albany Road and Earlsdon Hgh St. etc.). There's not much parking space now, before a stadium is built. At HR there was.

 

[Kingokings204]

And a small stadium at the Butts would do what?

Our main income is ticket sales. A small stadium would limit us more than anything else.

Spot on, people would argue back and say we own it but ticket sales are a lot more than food and beverage. Also 15k seater stadium won't host many big events as the Ricoh would due to capacity and transports links. It just won't happen. (Sadly)

 

[Astute]

We won't have a long lease. We'll be tenants to the leaseholder. Sub-letting.

I fully agree. But we need a ground that is good and big enough. What we need is an agreement with Wasps until we can put together a plan to take us forward. And we have not seen any plan so far that looks realistic. We have a decent chance of promotion this season especially if we get to keep Armstrong. If so even the away support will be much bigger most games. It is also said to be worth an extra 5m a season. The Ricoh situation is nowhere near ideal for us or our club. But I have seen nothing anywhere near as good so far.

 

[martcov]

There are a few on my Twitter feed that are called skyblue****, or ccfc*** etc who no longer go to ccfc games but now have wasps ST's. I had to do a Twitter cull.


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Our best years based on gates coincided with CRFC's best years attendance wise. ( if My memory is correct ). Rugby won't destroy CCFC and vice versa. Where we should be on the ball is in schools. If we keep involvement with the kids, we shouldn't notice Wasps.

 

[Astute]

Of course it is a rival. Wasps say they want 90% of their fanbase with a CV postcode. To suggest none of those have ever watched the football club is absurd

So Wasps want 90% of their support to have a CV postcode. We want a new ground that is good enough and big enough. We want new rich owners. I want my wife to look like she did when we first met. She was very hot them days.

If only we could all have what we want.

 

[Astute]

The difference is sisu sell the stadium and the football club and it's more attractive to owners as they have something tangible on their balance sheet, not a 250 year liability of rent with little to show for it.

I'm not agreeing with this 12-15k stadium I'm disagreeing with blindly staying at the Ricoh for the next 250 years as tenants, hoping for the best.

We need to see the business case but people seem to have written off a new stadium before they have seen one.

We know we will be at the Ricoh for the next 10 years, but longer term who knows.

I have not seen anyone write off a new stadium. But paying many millions for something not good enough to take us forward would not be a good move. Like you say the Butts wouldn't be a good move. And who has said about renting for 250 years?

What we need is to get lucky in getting to the Prem. This would pay for a stadium. Or get lucky in getting a mega rich owner. Otherwise we need a proper plan in place. And until we have any of these a decent rental agreement seems to be the best answer. We need to be realistic.

 

[skybluetony176]

Of course it is a rival. Wasps say they want 90% of their fanbase with a CV postcode. To suggest none of those have ever watched the football club is absurd

So you'll agree then that cutting you're potential paying customer base from 32k to 12-15k while your competition has the potential to attract 32k paying customers is commercially shooting yourself in the foot.

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

I know we are in the 3rd tier of football and getting 11000 fans each week, but we weren't getting much more than 14-15000 in the championship after the novelty of moving to the Ricoh had worn off and even when we were in to premier league/first division attendances weren't that much higher.
Would we need another white elephant of a ground that holds twice the amount that we need again?

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

So you'll agree then that cutting you're potential paying customer base from 32k to 12-15k while your competition has the potential to attract 32k paying customers is commercially shooting yourself in the foot.

Potential customer base means very little if it only turns up once in 5 years. I'm a potential lottery winner but guess what? It isn't going to happen.

 

[covcity4life]

Potential customer base means very little if it only turns up once in 5 years. I'm a potential lottery winner but guess what? It isn't going to happen.

it might

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

I would think a ground of 20k would be more than enough even if the miracle ever happened and we got back to the Prem as gate receipts in the top league are only the cherry on the cake at most clubs as the TV revenues are so big nowadays.

i like the idea of the butts but when I went past it on the train there didn't seem to be much space around it, plus does the butts have the same stupid parking rules as the Ricoh where you don't seem to be able to park anywhere in a cv postcode on match day?

 

[chiefdave]

Just to give an idea of what may or may not be possible:



The Den has a 20,146 capacity.



20,520 capacity at the Liberty Stadium.

 

[Nick]

So you'll agree then that cutting you're potential paying customer base from 32k to 12-15k while your competition has the potential to attract 32k paying customers is commercially shooting yourself in the foot.

Where does it stop though? Should we build a 50k stadium so we aren't ruling out champions league?

There's a difference if we had 32k every week and downsize compared to being a third full every week and downsizing.

 

[skybluetony176]

And a small stadium at the Butts would do what?

Our main income is ticket sales. A small stadium would limit us more than anything else.

Exactly. Based on what we know we can achieve in terms of crowds in the championship we're going to rob ourselves of £1.9m - £3m in ticket revenue every season, not including cup games. We're going to have to be selling an awful lot of pie's to be better off and that's even before you consider the extra debt of the cost of redeveloping the site on top of the historic debt. A 12-15k stadium just doesn't add up.

It's worth pointing out that we're actually in a good position to be a championship club as early as next season. The butts proposal might not be viable before a brick is laid.

 

[chiefdave]

I would think a ground of 20k would be more than enough even if the miracle ever happened and we got back to the Prem as gate receipts in the top league are only the cherry on the cake at most clubs as the TV revenues are so big nowadays.

Look at this seasons championship averages:

Derby 29,166
Brighton 23,921
Leeds 22,703
Middlesbrough 22,429
Sheff Wed 21,267
Forest 20,110
Wolves 20,010

There isn't another team over 19K.