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Refugees welcome? (1 Viewer)

Monners said:
Racism on Sky Blues Talk will not be tolerated - unless of course there are 20k refugees trying to get into the UK!
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Prime example. Why is the racist card branded about when taking about immigration? It's not being racist, it's being a realist. Big difference
 
The Lurker said:
Same applies to when foreign nationalities are arrested here. They get a translator which costs £500 a time.
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Have you got a link re this, cheers.
 
armybike said:
I just don't see why people need to make things up to reinforce their point, but hey you're just a realist...........
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It was on a TV programme about 24 hours in custody. Luton if I remember rightly. Sorry no link. One question, do you think that's too much tax payers money to be wasting especially as the budget for policing has been cut massively under latest government?
 
The Lurker said:
One question, do you think that's too much tax payers money to be wasting especially as the budget for policing has been cut massively under latest government?
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No.
 
The Lurker said:
Really? So it's alright for people to lose jobs, less police on the streets etc... Due to cuts but alright to spend 15+ million a year on translators. Priceless
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Yes.
 
Nick said:
Didn't they just spray tear gas? If I went into town tonight and kicked off with the police I'd get CS gassed wouldn't I?
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I believe they also used water canons and truncheons. The people have no food and drink and no sanitation - they are pissed off. They are now going through Croatia. It is hell. They cannot go back and cannot go forward.
 
martcov said:
I believe they also used water canons and truncheons. The people have no food and drink and no sanitation - they are pissed off. They are now going through Croatia. It is hell. They cannot go back and cannot go forward.
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They'd be pissed off if they met a whole lotta Lurkers, for sure.

Anger begets anger and all that. Division creates division.
 
martcov said:
I believe they also used water canons and truncheons. The people have no food and drink and no sanitation - they are pissed off. They are now going through Croatia. It is hell. They cannot go back and cannot go forward.
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What would happen in a normal riot situation?

I'm pretty sure the police are pissed off too! I don't think pissed off is that much of an excuse is it? Who is going to be crying out to help when this happens?
 
The Lurker said:
Because they wouldn't get the free handouts and houses. For 15 years this country and most of Europe had housed immigrants and give them free money. I don't blame them, they get free money and housing but it's us who have to pay for it.

Those countries are rich because they don't have the same benefit system as us.
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They also have oil and gas in the gulf. Maybe that is why they are rich.. A lot of Syrians had a house and money. That is not their sole motivation in leaving Syria. In Germany, at least, they are intent on speeding up asylum claims to send economic refugees home. War refugees are covered by asylum law and cannot be sent home whilst a war is raging. In Switzerland a claim is decided within 48 hours and then bye bye ( if you are not entitled to asylum ). No-one has given me a penny or € and I am a EU immigrant in Germany. Where is my free house come to think of it?
 
Nick said:
What would happen in a normal riot situation?

I'm pretty sure the police are pissed off too! I don't think pissed off is that much of an excuse is it? Who is going to be crying out to help when this happens?
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just heard a Croatian policeman on TV say he wishes them all the luck in the world. It would seem that not all police take the Hungarian attitude. Orban is the nearest you will get to a fascist in the EU and that reflects on the Hungarian treatment of refugees, which has been criticised by the UN.
 
Nick said:
What would happen in a normal riot situation?

I'm pretty sure the police are pissed off too! I don't think pissed off is that much of an excuse is it? Who is going to be crying out to help when this happens?
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this is not a normal situation. The refugees are being treated like animals.
 
martcov said:
this is not a normal situation. The refugees are being treated like animals.
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And some of them are acting like them, it's the people who genuinely need help who get caught up in it I feel sorry for. It's the kids being dragged through it and shoved at the front.

I still don't understand if they were fleeing for their lives they didn't settle in a safe country and then go through the process when it's all settled down.
 
Nick said:
I still don't understand if they were fleeing for their lives they didn't settle in a safe country and then go through the process when it's all settled down.
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Don't understand/Don't want to understand?
 
The Lurker said:
Why can't the refugees settle in Hungary? They are not in a worn-torn country anymore. Surely the whole reason they moved was fearing for their lives, now they are not. Should be happy being away from torture. So your basically saying it's fine to break the law and riot? Interesting comments
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No. I am saying that Orban is a fascist and has said that it is alright if other European countries want to accept Muslims, but Hungary doesn't want them in their country. Doesn't sound like a "wilkommenkultur". Hungary already has enough refugees per capita anyway and probably couldn't cope. The Dublin agreement is not working. There are too many people on the move. All a result of the collapse of Arab despots starting with Sadam and then the optimistic Arab spring backed by us. No-one is heading home to Syria and no-one wants to stay in Hungary. Croatia said they could all register there - and then quickly worked out that they couldn't cope if they did. So, the march goes on.
 
armybike said:
Don't understand/Don't want to understand?
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can you explain it then? If they are fleeing for their lives, dragging their kids through it then why don't they settle in a closer country and build a life there? Then once settled they can surely go through the process for asylum when it's not like this.

Surely they would be happy to be safe?

Make me understand?
 
Nick said:
can you explain it then? If they are fleeing for their lives, dragging their kids through it then why don't they settle in a closer country and build a life there? Then once settled they can surely go through the process for asylum when it's not like this.

Surely they would be happy to be safe?
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Obviously not or they would just that. Maybe sitting in a tent waiting for better days gives them no perspective. I think that it is amazing the effort volunteers are putting in to help these people. Their whole region is screwed ( apart from the super rich states ) largely to the intended benefit of our foreign policy. If I remember rightly, Colin Powell said "we have to win hearts and minds". Germany has certainly taken a lead in this. Maybe that helps towards a better relationship and we can have a better future.

treating people as animals won't get anyone anywhere.
 
martcov said:
Obviously not or they would just that. Maybe sitting in a tent waiting for better days gives them no perspective. I think that it is amazing the effort volunteers are putting in to help these people. Their whole region is screwed ( apart from the super rich states ) largely to the intended benefit of our foreign policy. If I remember rightly, Colin Powell said "we have to win hearts and minds". Germany has certainly taken a lead in this. Maybe that helps towards a better relationship and we can have a better future.

treating people as animals won't get anyone anywhere.
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So if they aren't doing things to become safe then surely it rules that out as an argument when they leave the safe country?

That still doesn't give much reasoning as to why they aren't going to the first safe country they can though? If anything just by saying "if it was that good they would do it" makes it look like it isn't just about their safety at allall.
 
Nick said:
So if they aren't doing things to become safe then surely it rules that out as an argument when they leave the safe country?

That still doesn't give much reasoning as to why they aren't going to the first safe country they can though? If anything just by saying "if it was that good they would do it" makes it look like it isn't just about their safety at allall.
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Define 'safe' and define 'secure'.

Personally I wouldn't feel particularly 'safe' in Hungary, for one...

The fact the population of Germany doesn't emigrate there also suggests it is by no means as safe, secure, or as able to help.
 
Deleted member 5849 said:
Define 'safe' and define 'secure'.

Personally I wouldn't feel particularly 'safe' in Hungary, for one...

The fact the population of Germany doesn't emigrate there also suggests it is by no means as safe, secure, or as able to help.
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I didn't just mean hungary, they aren't showed in so it's out of the question.

If they are running because it is life or death and then surely no risk of death is a good start? Life or death or for a better life are two different things aren't they?
 
Nick said:
can you explain it then? If they are fleeing for their lives, dragging their kids through it then why don't they settle in a closer country and build a life there? Then once settled they can surely go through the process for asylum when it's not like this.

Surely they would be happy to be safe?

Make me understand?
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With the greatest of respect Nick you're stance on this, from the replies you have given, make it clear your opinion is locked in.

You're asking people to explain/justify the actions of people thousands of miles away, who they've had no contact with.

I have no clue what I'd do if I was in their shoes, but accept they are individuals and will all have rational for how they react.

Be that greed, fear, panic, confusion it's wrong to expect them to all to respond in a uniform way.
 
Nick said:
I didn't just mean hungary, they aren't showed in so it's out of the question.

If they are running because it is life or death and then surely no risk of death is a good start? Life or death or for a better life are two different things aren't they?
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Personally if I was persecuted, having finally decided to make the break from my homeland to escape tyranny, I'd want to go to the place where I felt I had the best chance of escaping such persecution, and receiving support from people showing basic humanity.

Wouldn't you?
 
armybike said:
With the greatest of respect Nick you're stance on this, from the replies you have given, make it clear your opinion is locked in.

You're asking people to explain/justify the actions of people thousands of miles away, who they've had no contact with.

I have no clue what I'd do if I was in their shoes, but accept they are individuals and will all have rational for how they react.

Be that greed, fear, panic, confusion it's wrong to expect them to all to respond in a uniform way.
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So you are saying I don't understand but you don't yourself? I'm happy for somebody to explain to me so I do understand.
 
Deleted member 5849 said:
Personally if I was persecuted, having finally decided to make the break from my homeland to escape tyranny, I'd want to go to the place where I felt I had the best chance of escaping such persecution, and receiving support from people showing basic humanity.

Wouldn't you?
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But that's not life or death is it? That's moving for a better life isn't it?
 
Nick said:
So you are saying I don't understand but you don't yourself?
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How you've taken that from what I've said is totally beyond me.
 
Nick said:
Why not explain? I'm happy to try and understand.
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Are you actually reading these replies or just lining up the next question as a reply each time?
 
armybike said:
Are you actually reading these replies or just lining up the next question as a reply each time?
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Yes, I asked if they are doing it for survival and not a better life why aren't they in the first safe country. Just trying to see if there was reasoning behind it?

You said that I didn't want to understand, I asked you to explain so I would. You said you couldn't.

I can understand why people would flee to the nearest safe place just to survive and these are clearly the ones who need the most help I think.
 
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