Wasps

[Norman Binns]

So if SISU owned ACL, you think they would be able to sell the football club on its own? What a ridiculous notion.

There is no value in CCFC without a stadium. It would have to be sold as a whole package within the company structure. If there was value in a team that rents a stadium SISU would of sold up ages ago

Yes it is a ridiculous notion. Not an idea that was suggested by me but implied by you which is why I asked the question. Makes you wonder why Sisu bought the club on its own then doesn't it?

 

[Bennets Afro]

Yes it is a ridiculous notion. Not an idea that was suggested by me but implied by you which is why I asked the question.

I didn't imply SISU selling and keeping the Ricoh at all. Was implying they wont sell unless they have something to sell and that means the stadium as well.

It's all irrelevant now anyway because the club or SISU have no chance of having any form of ownership of the Ricoh and we are are forced to either rent forever and be skint or build a tinpot arena outside of cov and be skint with a capacity of 16k

 

[Jack Griffin]

So if SISU owned ACL, you think they would be able to sell the football club on its own? What a ridiculous notion.

There is no value in CCFC without a stadium. It would have to be sold as a whole package within the company structure. If there was value in a team that rents a stadium SISU would of sold up ages ago

No value in CCFC with all the debt it holds, I have no idea how SISU think they're going to get rid of it without a significant write off.

I suspect they'll overplay their hand again & try to milk the club, relying on the fact they are the only show in town, if they think that situation will last if the club languishes in division 3 & 4 then they are being very foolish indeed.

 

[Bennets Afro]

No value in CCFC with all the debt it holds, I have no idea how SISU think they're going to get rid of it without a significant write off.

I suspect they'll overplay their hand again & try to milk the club, relying on the fact they are the only show in town, if they think that situation will last if the club languishes in division 3 & 4 then they are being very foolish indeed.

Doesn't look good does it?

The way i am seeing it we are cash flow positive - so our outgoings are less then income. Although that is the way it should be, with our low income it is no suprise we are looking at League 2 rather than the championship

 

[Norman Binns]

Sorry if I’m being obtuse here BA, but if Sisu got hold of the stadium and then sold the club, the club would then be tenants at the mercy of stadium owners Sisu. Tell me how this scenario would benefit the club?

We have new owners. That's a benefit, but whoever owns us do you think that the club would ever own the stadium. There will always be a holding company involved just like I'm sure there is with wasps somewhere down the line

I didn't imply SISU selling and keeping the Ricoh at all...

I think the implication was there in your initial response to my question. I could be wrong though.

 

[Bennets Afro]

I think the implication was there in your initial response to my question. I could be wrong though.

Still dont see it where i implied sisu would sell the club and keep acl.

 

[italiahorse]

No we bloody don't. Build a new ground within 4-5 years then leave the egg chasers and their new fans to the Ricoh. If we don't have one sorted in that time Wasps will charge us to the hilt as we have no alternative. You mock the only option this club has of being successful-I am not surprised.

Makes me laugh.
The stadium will not be in Coventry because no where exists to build it.

At best it could be somewhere 'like' Brandon, Balsall Common, Ansty Business park.
If they build a stadium out of town there will be no big stores, no hotels, no conference facilities no concerts etc.
People will only come for the football and that in TF words is not enough.
Don't get me started on food and beverage.

The stadium will cost over £20M, money that CCFC have not got so will have to get a loan for .
You can put aside £1M a year for that alone over 25 years.
Then there's maintenance costs, rates and services like gas, electric, phones, water, sewrage etc.
In my mind £1.2M we used to pay for the Ricoh could be considered as reasonable when weighed up against these costs.
I've put them out there so query away.

Then there's the fans.
Transport links, years of waiting, continued justifications and reviews.
A smaller stadium, smaller fan base and no chance of paying off the loan.

People need to see that a new stadium is not the way forward.

 

[stupot07]

Makes me laugh.
The stadium will not be in Coventry because no where exists to build it.

At best it could be somewhere 'like' Brandon, Balsall Common, Ansty Business park.
If they build a stadium out of town there will be no big stores, no hotels, no conference facilities no concerts etc.
People will only come for the football and that in TF words is not enough.
Don't get me started on food and beverage.

The stadium will cost over £20M, money that CCFC have not got so will have to get a loan for .
You can put aside £1M a year for that alone over 25 years.
Then there's maintenance costs, rates and services like gas, electric, phones, water, sewrage etc.
In my mind £1.2M we used to pay for the Ricoh could be considered as reasonable when weighed up against these costs.
I've put them out there so query away.

Then there's the fans.
Transport links, years of waiting, continued justifications and reviews.
A smaller stadium, smaller fan base and no chance of paying off the loan.

People need to see that a new stadium is not the way forward.

You see your argument falls down when you consider £1.2m for 25-28 days use and a shop, with no/little access to additional revenue as reasonable, and matchday costs on top, of which a portion will be taken to help cover maintenance, utilities, rates, etc

Lots of avenues to make money from owning your own stadium.

-conferences, meetings, weddings and other functions - even CRFC do this at the Butts
-food and beverages (we don't get this currently)
-stadium naming rights (we don't get this currently)
-stand sponsorship (we don't get this currently)
-parking (we used to get some of this because we bought spaces of ACL, but we don't currently get this)
- Pitchside advertising (yes we get this)
- other advertising like the electronic sign on the A444 (we don't get this)
- sell bits of land for development (if not supermarket, housing, industrial units)
- renting pitch to PL clubs U21's sides, etc (we don't get access to this)

I'm sure there's a lot of other opportunities too. It's not black and white.




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[italiahorse]

You see your argument falls down when you consider £1.2m for 25-28 days use and a shop, with no/little access to additional revenue as reasonable, and matchday costs on top, of which a portion will be taken to help cover maintenance, utilities, rates, etc

Lots of avenues to make money from owning your own stadium.

-conferences, meetings, weddings and other functions - even CRFC do this at the Butts
-food and beverages (we don't get this currently)
-stadium naming rights (we don't get this currently)
-stand sponsorship (we don't get this currently)
-parking (we used to get some of this because we bought spaces of ACL, but we don't currently get this)
- Pitchside advertising (yes we get this)
- other advertising like the electronic sign on the A444 (we don't get this)
- sell bits of land for development (if not supermarket, housing, industrial units)
- renting pitch to PL clubs U21's sides, etc (we don't get access to this)

I'm sure there's a lot of other opportunities too. It's not black and white.

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Offset these against the stadium loan and upkeep and it's nothing.
Don't forget it's out of town and the conference facilities will be the match day lounge.

Selling bits of land is nonsense. If it was available the land owner would be doing it now.

People need to stop entertaining this and push Sisu to get a long term preferential deal with incremental football related incomes.

 

[stupot07]

Offset these against the stadium loan and upkeep and it's nothing.
Don't forget it's out of town and the conference facilities will be the match day lounge.

Selling bits of land is nonsense. If it was available the land owner would be doing it now.

People need to stop entertaining this and push Sisu to get a long term preferential deal with incremental football related incomes.

"Incremental football related incomes" what does that even mean?

If the club decide to build a new stadium, we must back them. W


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[skybluefred]

I don't think they really expected it to be successful but still they did try and purchase the Higgs 50%

Sorry I don't see it that way. Sisu knew Wasps offer was £2.7m and so sisu offered £2.6m, had they have been serious they would have offered
Higgs the £6.5m they originally loaned CCFC,had they done that they would now own 50% of the Ricoh. But what's another huge balls up to sisu.

 

[italiahorse]

"Incremental football related incomes" what does that even mean?

If the club decide to build a new stadium, we must back them. W


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They are incomes that Wasps would not be getting if the football team was not there.
They could afford to give these to the club as they would be no worse off.

They would benefit indirectly though by taking advantage of having more volume of sales through the Ricoh.
For example the more you buy in to sell, the cheaper it gets.

 

[Nick]

Sorry I don't see it that way. Sisu knew Wasps offer was £2.7m and so sisu offered £2.6m, had they have been serious they would have offered
Higgs the £6.5m they originally loaned CCFC,had they done that they would now own 50% of the Ricoh. But what's another huge balls up to sisu.

Is that a serious post? Bid 3 times as much? It was a 100% deal from the start

 

[Ian1779]

Sorry I don't see it that way. Sisu knew Wasps offer was £2.7m and so sisu offered £2.6m, had they have been serious they would have offered
Higgs the £6.5m they originally loaned CCFC,had they done that they would now own 50% of the Ricoh. But what's another huge balls up to sisu.

Pretty sure the article said £2.8m not £2.6m

 

[Rusty Trombone]

Pretty sure the article said £2.8m not £2.6m

Indeed, the actual wording on the ccfc website says 'around £2.8m'.

 

[italiahorse]

Pretty sure the article said £2.8m not £2.6m

Just under £2.8M said TF which means £2.77M with the bullshit filter on.

 

[Nick]

Just under £2.8M said TF which means £2.77M with the bullshit filter on.

So does that mean wasps offered 2.4?

 

[skybluefred]

Is that a serious post? Bid 3 times as much? It was a 100% deal from the start

I wouldn't expect you to understand common sense and decency,It's a charity who unwisely bailed our Club
out in times of desperate need. No doubt you think it's a good thing that a children's charity loses money,
I don't. Further more the stadia is worth far more than the money paid for it but that's CCC's fault.

 

[Nick]

I wouldn't expect you to understand common sense and decency,It's a charity who unwisely bailed our Club
out in times of desperate need. No doubt you think it's a good thing that a children's charity loses money,
I don't. Further more the stadia is worth far more than the money paid for it but that's CCC's fault.

So direct your Anger at wasps, it was them who ripped them off? Maybe you should practise what you preach?

 

[italiahorse]

So does that mean wasps offered 2.4?

Are you calling CCC liars ? .... Wow

 

[Nick]

Are you calling CCC liars ? .... Wow

Death sentence on here. Every party in this mess are liars, in it for themselves.

 

[italiahorse]

So direct your Anger at wasps, it was them who ripped them off?

I assume that's what it was worth, thanks to Sisu doing all the hard work, including loosing a fan base just for that cause.
Although £2.77M seems nothing these days looking elsewhere up the leagues.

Should CCFC pay Higgs the full value they bought them at because Higgs baled out CCFC at the time, or did Higgs expect to make money at CCFC's expence ?
If they expected to make money then it's fair to also make a loss.

 

[italiahorse]

Jordan Clarke has scored twice ????

 

[Nick]

I assume that's what it was worth, thanks to Sisu doing all the hard work, including loosing a fan base just for that cause.
Although £2.77M seems nothing these days looking elsewhere up the leagues.

Should CCFC pay Higgs the full value they bought them at because Higgs baled out CCFC at the time, or did Higgs expect to make money at CCFC's expence ?
If they expected to make money then it's fair to also make a loss.

Higgs and ccc didn't have to sell, unless they were lying?

 

[italiahorse]

Higgs and ccc didn't have to sell, unless they were lying?

They wanted out I guess

 

[skybluefred]

I have no interest in Wasps or what they paid CCC for 50% of the Ricoh. My interest concerns sisu
and their reluctance to acquire half of the Ricoh for CCFC. A decent and fair offer and the Higgs
would have sold to them.

 

[Nick]

I have no interest in Wasps or what they paid CCC for 50% of the Ricoh. My interest concerns sisu
and their reluctance to acquire half of the Ricoh for CCFC. A decent and fair offer and the Higgs
would have sold to them.

How do you know that? How do you know they didn't make a fair offer?

You cared a minute ago about a childrens charity being ripped off? Only if its sisu it seems

 

[Ian1779]

I have no interest in Wasps or what they paid CCC for 50% of the Ricoh. My interest concerns sisu
and their reluctance to acquire half of the Ricoh for CCFC. A decent and fair offer and the Higgs
would have sold to them.

I'm pretty sure that if they were ever offered half of ACL at that price they would have ripped their hands off.

 

[stupot07]

I have no interest in Wasps or what they paid CCC for 50% of the Ricoh. My interest concerns sisu
and their reluctance to acquire half of the Ricoh for CCFC. A decent and fair offer and the Higgs
would have sold to them.

They offered pretty much the same as wasps. Are you suggesting a fair and decent offer from us should be considerably more than they're willing to sell it to wasps for? Also doesn't this ignore the fact that wasps would have veto'd the bid anyway?


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[Nick]

They offered pretty much the same as wasps. Are you suggesting a fair and decent offer from us should be considerably more than they're willing to sell it to wasps for? Also doesn't this ignore the fact that wasps would have veto'd the bid anyway?


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It seems that it needs to be double for ccfc than other clubs.

 

[italiahorse]

I have no interest in Wasps or what they paid CCC for 50% of the Ricoh. My interest concerns sisu
and their reluctance to acquire half of the Ricoh for CCFC. A decent and fair offer and the Higgs
would have sold to them.

I can't get my head round this.
Everybody is saying it's cheap at £2.77M but Sisu offer suggests it's not.
I'm confused on the value of the place.

 

[Nick]

I can't get my head round this.
Everybody is saying it's cheap at £2.77M but Sisu offer suggests it's not.
I'm confused on the value of the place.

What did they offer last time in a cash deal?-when people wet themselves over kids going without food? Wasn't far off was it

 

[martcov]

So direct your Anger at wasps, it was them who ripped them off? Maybe you should practise what you preach?

Wasps made a bid and it was accepted. So no-one was ripped off by Wasps...

 

[Nick]

Wasps made a bid and it was accepted. So no-one was ripped off by Wasps...

But sisu were trying to offering the same? Better educate fred the common sense king then

 

[Rusty Trombone]

I'm pretty sure that if they were ever offered half of ACL at that price they would have ripped their hands off.

Sisu’s Joy Seppala says Coventry City Football Club will not “interfere” with any talks over a sale of the Ricoh Arena to rugby club London Wasps.


Speaking for the first time about the controversial Wasps proposal, she told the Get Cov Back To The Ricoh fans’ group: “We will not interfere with any deal between Wasps and Arena Coventry Limited regarding the Ricoh.” She said one of many hurdles to any prospect of a Ricoh deal had been ACL’s contract with private firm Compass and the joint venture IEC, which had made an upfront payment to ACL in return for the Ricoh’s revenues from catering sales.


“We don’t want to be distracted from what really matters to us, to the club and to the fans. We are focusing all of our efforts on making this season a great one for CCFC and securing our future.”


Ms Seppala added there remained “long term investment plans” for the Coventry City football club, and “long-term investors” backing plans for a new stadium. Property consultants are actively working to secure a site that would include the commercial development potential around it. The long-term aim is for the new stadium to help maximise income for the team from stadium revenues.


She said: “We are moving on with our new stadium plans because the club needs access to revenues 365 days a year. You can’t build a new stadium overnight and we are happy to be back at the Ricoh Arena while we develop our plans for a new permanent home for CCFC.”