Ricoh Arena bosses overcharge again (1 Viewer)

[No future with SISU]

Yes it is believed to. The debate is "matchday" costs was rent under another name and changed with each offer.

Is the £170,000 rent at northampton include the match day costs, "Yes it is believed to" is not an answer, say YES or NO.

 

---

[Grendel]

Is the £170,000 rent at northampton include the match day costs, "Yes it is believed to" is not an answer, say YES or NO.

Yes as the other costs are paid separately

 

[lordsummerisle]

Is the £170,000 rent at northampton include the match day costs, "Yes it is believed to" is not an answer, say YES or NO.

YES or NO.

 

[Noggin]

What! These are MATCH DAY costs. How on earth do mortgaged loans stadium quality gave anything to do with a fixed charged?

You accuse me of being ridiculous. Jesus.

I was talking about the cost to rent as a whole which is what the thread is about.

Match day costs should not be affected affected by stadium build cost of course, though it's still the case that match day costs increase as stadium size increases and with better facilities, the biggest cost increases though are of course attendence based.

You are still being ridiculous asking why match day costs are higher at wembley than six fields when you know (at least some of the reasons) why.

 

[Grendel]

I was talking about the cost to rent as a whole which is what the thread is about.

Match day costs should not be affected affected by stadium build cost of course, though it's still the case that match day costs increase as stadium size increases and with better facilities, the biggest cost increases though are of course attendence based.

You are still being ridiculous asking why match day costs are higher at wembley than six fields when you know (at least some of the reasons) why.

Please show me a post where I have mentioned Sixfields and Wembley.

 

[Noggin]

Please show me a post where I have mentioned Sixfields and Wembley.

Sky Blue John posted about six fields and wembley, you responded to that post asking him why.

Back on topic this is a night game is that the reason for charging more than they have done to the ladies in the past?

 

[Grendel]

Sky Blue John posted about six fields and wembley, you responded to that post asking him why.

Back on topic this is a night game is that the reason for charging more than they have done to the ladies in the past?

They are not charging more - they've lost the business. I'm moving to Walsall electricity is cheaper over there.

 

[wingy]

They are not charging more - they've lost the business. I'm moving to Walsall electricity is cheaper over there.

Clearly we made the wrong move with Sixfields when we could have used the Bescott for £1250,how does Geoff Bonsor do It?

What an utter embarrassment the whole thing Is.

 

[Jim]

Serious question, what things will be different depending on attendance?

Off the top of my head I can think of the following....

Dependant on number on stands opened:

Lighting and Heating
Opening and closing stands - staff cost
Internal security
Supervision
Staffing of food/drink stands (dependant upon contract with Compass)

Dependant directly on projected crowd size:

Stewarding (if required by hiring party)
Clean up costs - Toilets, refuse, general maintenance

 

[Nick]

Off the top of my head I can think of the following....

Dependant on number on stands opened:

Lighting and Heating
Opening and closing stands - staff cost
Internal security
Supervision
Staffing of food/drink stands (dependant upon contract with Compass)

Dependant directly on projected crowd size:

Stewarding (if required by hiring party)
Clean up costs - Toilets, refuse, general maintenance

Thanks, about the same as I could think of apart from food / drink stands as that wouldn't be included for CCFC would it?

 

[Noggin]

They are not charging more - they've lost the business. I'm moving to Walsall electricity is cheaper over there.

I'd be very surprised if it costs the same to light the bescot as it does the ricoh, don't higher leagues have higher standards on the quality of lighting? but it's true the difference is likely to be low hundreds of quid at most.

but I agree they have lost the business I already posted " if they want to price themselves out of this business it's their loss." and that I'd prefer it if they went to some effort to provide lower cost for our ladies. They have obviously charged the ladies alot less in the past though so something is different.

 

[RegTheDonk]

The club pay for police.

What matchday costs will be different? Cleaners, energy bills for the concourse only (and corp), trying to think what others

Pitch and flood lights etc will be the same

I guess you would need more stewards and staff on the turnstyles, at the bars, food outlets etc. Imagine the queues if you only opened up a quarter of the facilties .... plus, I presume, you'd only have the capability to sell a quarter of the goods.

 

[Nick]

I guess you would need more stewards and staff on the turnstyles, at the bars, food outlets etc. Imagine the queues if you only opened up a quarter of the facilties .... plus, I presume, you'd only have the capability to sell a quarter of the goods.

Coventry City wouldn't be paying to staff the food places as an example and paid their own stewards.

 

[wingy]

So a flat rate of £1800 for a pitch with no fans present and £3K add ons for staffing up and Lighting etc ,seems plausible to me .

The fly in the ointment Is the fact that ACL must have waived some of that when the Ladies have played there recently .I'm guessing Bonsors Pitch costs are waived due to the pitch being maintained for the local team during the regular season ,whereas ACL have to bare those costs without the regular team playing there .Leaving me to assume a differential of of £1750 on staffing up.

 

[RegTheDonk]

For all we know the stewards were paid for by CCFC as it was a permanent deal with 25ish games per season.

For a one off or occasional game isn't it more likely that staff are provided rather than the hirer having to provide their own staff.

We don't know and that of course is the big problem with commenting on this. Unless we know the cost to ACL it's hard to make a judgement on the price they are asking. If it's costing them £4.5K to stage the game a charge of £5K seems reasonable. If it's costing them £500 to stage the game the charge is way over the top.

Yeah that makes sense. When they have an event at Brum's ICC that requires extra security (party conferences for example) the ICC bring in G4S and charge accordingly.

 

[duffer]

I'd be very surprised if it costs the same to light the bescot as it does the ricoh, don't higher leagues have higher standards on the quality of lighting? but it's true the difference is likely to be low hundreds of quid at most.

but I agree they have lost the business I already posted " if they want to price themselves out of this business it's their loss." and that I'd prefer it if they went to some effort to provide lower cost for our ladies. They have obviously charged the ladies alot less in the past though so something is different.

I think that's probably the key - something is different. I notice that it's the FA going to ACL rather than the ladies team trying to hire it direct. Maybe the FA insisted on something different. I can see how a night game would be more expensive than a day game, but obviously not to this level.

And given that, say, Bedworth can typically host the ladies games without issue, I don't understand why they haven't gone to that as their next best alternative instead of Walsall. That suggests to me that the requirement from the F.A. wasn't the typical requirement of CCLFC.

Or I could be entirely wrong, and this could just be a case of ACL suddenly deciding to lump a big charge on for some reason. In truth we just don't know enough.

 

[Grendel]

Yeah that makes sense. When they have an event at Brum's ICC that requires extra security (party conferences for example) the ICC bring in G4S and charge accordingly.

Do the staff work for free in Walsall?

 

[blueflint]

Greedy bastards

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/ricoh-arena-bosses-price-venue-7059244

there can be no comparison with the two venues the ricoh is bound to be much more expensive look at the facilities

 

[DaleM]

Who gives a fuck . " We've moved on "

 

[Ian1779]

I think that's probably the key - something is different. I notice that it's the FA going to ACL rather than the ladies team trying to hire it direct. Maybe the FA insisted on something different. I can see how a night game would be more expensive than a day game, but obviously not to this level.

And given that, say, Bedworth can typically host the ladies games without issue, I don't understand why they haven't gone to that as their next best alternative instead of Walsall. That suggests to me that the requirement from the F.A. wasn't the typical requirement of CCLFC.

Or I could be entirely wrong, and this could just be a case of ACL suddenly deciding to lump a big charge on for some reason. In truth we just don't know enough.

Isn't it a cup final? Which would explain the local FA co-ordinating it.

Maybe ACL have a better deal that night... Perhaps flying Kestrels round the empty bowl.

 

[RegTheDonk]

Coventry City wouldn't be paying to staff the food places as an example and paid their own stewards.

Fair enough Nick, didn't realise they club paid their own stewards. But the point of discussion was around crowd sizes and how costs would be greater ... it presumably will cost the club more to keep a large crowd safe at the Ricoh, rather than a smaller crowd at Sixfields. The other staff would be put on the hire bill in some shape or form, the ground isn't going to supply them out of the goodness of their heart. Coventry City will indirectly be paying for them.

 

[chiefdave]

The key for me is how much it was going to cost ACL. If it was going to cost them £10K then as much as they've lost the business you could argue its a good commercial decision. If it was going to cost them £1K then they've messed this up and lost out as a result.

 

[RegTheDonk]

Do the staff work for free in Walsall?

I wouldn't have thought so. I'll ask them next season when we play there if you like.

 

[Jim]

Coventry City wouldn't be paying to staff the food places as an example and paid their own stewards.

It depends on contracts between CCFC and ACL. And in this example we are talking about a purely external party making a one-off hire as opposed to a standing contract for use of the stadium.

In the case of the ladies match, stewards would almost certainly need to be provided for by ACL, or some other party.

 

[duffer]

Isn't it a cup final? Which would explain the local FA co-ordinating it.

Precisely my point, and maybe they have different requirements as a result. Do you know?

Maybe ACL have a better deal that night... Perhaps flying Kestrels round the empty bowl.

I'd have thought if they'd got something else arranged they would have just said 'no', in truth. But it's always good to get a bit of lazy sniping in when you can - it reminds me not to bother taking your viewpoint too seriously.

 

[Nick]

It depends on contracts between CCFC and ACL. And in this example we are talking about a purely external party making a one-off hire as opposed to a standing contract for use of the stadium.

In the case of the ladies match, stewards would almost certainly need to be provided for by ACL, or some other party.

Why would people hiring pay the wages of staff in the food places? Surely the people who run the food places should estimate the attendance and judge how many are needed etc. (I am not saying you are wrong, but it would be stupid to pay somebodies wage who is then earning money for somebody else)

I agree about stewards, but wouldn't they have them last time? They had 300 people, how many stewards is that?

 

[RegTheDonk]

Why would people hiring pay the wages of staff in the food places? Surely the people who run the food places should estimate the attendance and judge how many are needed etc. (I am not saying you are wrong, but it would be stupid to pay somebodies wage who is then earning money for somebody else).....

Jim isn't saying the club pay them direct. Jim is saying that their costs are included in the hire of the venue.

Maybe the Ricoh should have it like hiring the local village hall for your wedding reception. You get charged £X for them to do the lot, or £Y if you supply your own catering.

 

[Nick]

Jim isn't saying the club pay them direct. Jim is saying that their costs are included in the hire of the venue.

Maybe the Ricoh should have it like hiring the local village hall for your wedding reception. You get charged £X for them to do the lot, or £Y if you supply your own catering.

I guess if you want catering for free (ie free hot dogs) then yes it is fair to include their costs. If however they are opening up and charging fans, why should costs be paid?

It is like me paying to hire a bouncy castle for a kids party and a man stood there charging the kids to get on.

I once enquired about a kids party at the Ricoh, which was interesting... £10 a head for nuggets and chips per kid I felt was taking the piss, especially after the £700 pound for the room. (not allowed to take own food in).

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

there can be no comparison with the two venues the ricoh is bound to be much more expensive look at the facilities

Where does it say anything about them looking to hire all the facilities the Ricoh has?

They asked for 5k for the basic pitch hire, not for the use of all the extra facilities. I'm trying to find out what basic pitch hire covers but I can't find it, I can't see it being much different to any other football stadium in the country though.

 

[torchomatic]

They want to play football, not hold a concert. Is the Walsall green bit in the middle not as "world class" as the Ricoh green bit in the middle?

there can be no comparison with the two venues the ricoh is bound to be much more expensive look at the facilities

 

[RegTheDonk]

I guess if you want catering for free (ie free hot dogs) then yes it is fair to include their costs. If however they are opening up and charging fans, why should costs be paid?

You would assume that this would be the case, if customers are paying for food, surely the catering company is making their money there?

Can't speak for ACL but at our place, because it was cheaper than employing our own cooks, an outside contractor came in and charged us £36K a year to run our canteen. We didn't make a penny on the food, and they also charged our staff for eating it.

IF this is the same kind of deal that ACL have, like I said previously they aren't going to provide this out of the goodness of their heart .... someone's going to have to cover their £36K (or however much it is) so they put it on the hire bill.

It is like me paying to hire a bouncy castle for a kids party and a man stood there charging the kids to get on.

Well, I guess it would depend on how cheap you got the bouncy castle for lol

I once enquired about a kids party at the Ricoh, which was interesting... £10 a head for nuggets and chips per kid I felt was taking the piss, especially after the £700 pound for the room. (not allowed to take own food in).

There are lots of places where you can do your own food, and lots of places where you can't. I think thats a lot of money Nick, I wouldn't pay that much...but some City fans would, just because of the venue. Thats the killer blow, unfortunately.







Back to the original topic, I too think its a bit steep compared to Walsall, especially when its two Cov teams playing ... you would like to think they would do a big discount if it was only for the pitch. But we don't know how much the overheads are for each club, and perhaps the £5K includes use of additonal rooms for presentations, meals etc.

Who said you only get what you pay for

 

[Grendel]

Precisely my point, and maybe they have different requirements as a result. Do you know?



I'd have thought if they'd got something else arranged they would have just said 'no', in truth. But it's always good to get a bit of lazy sniping in when you can - it reminds me not to bother taking your viewpoint too seriously.

Lazy sniping? What is your agenda on this forum?

 

[lordsummerisle]

Y
IF this is the same kind of deal that ACL have, like I said previously they aren't going to provide this out of the goodness of their heart .... someone's going to have to cover their £36K (or however much it is) so they put it on the hire bill.

ACL do make money out of the food and drink sales, think it may have been mentioned by Tim Fisher and a few on here!

 

[Skyblueweeman]

So, I've gone through 10 or 11 pages on this subject...reading things about sizes of stadium, match day costs, policing, differences between Walsall and Coventry and I have one question on all of this:

Women play football?

 

[stupot07]

Thanks, about the same as I could think of apart from food / drink stands as that wouldn't be included for CCFC would it?

Staffing for food and drinks should be paid for by selling food and drinks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors