Question for PWKH (11 Viewers)

[dongonzalos]

I've said several times that Sisu would be absolute c*nts if they didn't accept that offer. The point is, technically, the offer wasn't made. You are going on the assumption that it was because Pete said 'the offer was made in the presence of ML'. The offer was also made in the presence of the Administrator who adjudged that it was not acceptable, and therefore ML couldn't accept it.

My honest feeling is that Labovich would have accepted it if it was a genuine offer. he'd be a fool not to.

It's a really simple yes or no question that I've posed to Peter 4 or 5 times now, was a legally acceptable offer ever made?

I want Cov back in Cov, Sisu are getting their shit together, Robbins and Pressley are the best managers we've had for as long as I can remember, even when we went down 1-0 tonight I wasn't worried. When can you remember saying that last? I've got no connection with peter I really don't give a toss about him or Fisher or Sepalla. The Higgs family are brilliant, they've positively contributed to the fabric of Coventry, the charity stuff is absolutely top notch. ACL is a business venture, nothing to do with charity and I think we sometimes lose sight of that.

Now you are starting to swing me.

Yes I felt confident at one nil down.

12 years since I felt that confidence.

My concern is JS said freehold at my price or nothing.

That is why I don't believe Otium ever would have agreed to any rent deal and I genuinely believe that includes even 50k a year.

Why do you think SISU have never said we do want a deal to stay renting at the Ricoh and this is what it is?

 

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[Grappa]

It's been posted loads of times from the Trust Q&A but Sisu tried to negotiate a 3 year run off "ACL: Yes, Chris West and Paul Harris were advised post 29 January 2013 meeting during a follow up discussion with Tim Fisher, Mark Labovitch and John Clarke, that the Club wanted a three year run off period. This was totally rejected by the ACL representatives."

It's a cluster fuck, no doubt about it. But giving PWKH the benefit of doubt because he's better at the PR stuff than the others does our desire to get the club back no favours. Imo.

 

[letsallsingtogether]

I seem to remember that it was agreed by all but over turned by Joy later on?

It's been posted loads of times from the Trust Q&A but Sisu tried to negotiate a 3 year run off "ACL: Yes, Chris West and Paul Harris were advised post 29 January 2013 meeting during a follow up discussion with Tim Fisher, Mark Labovitch and John Clarke, that the Club wanted a three year run off period. This was totally rejected by the ACL representatives."

It's a cluster fuck, no doubt about it. But giving PWKH the benefit of doubt because he's better at the PR stuff than the others does our desire to get the club back no favours. Imo.

 

[letsallsingtogether]

As for PWKH if you have met him personally as I have you would know he is genuine and sky blue through and through.,

All the attacks he gets on here is really low and unnecessary. So he may have done one or two things wrong (tying a ribbon to Fishers car). But FFS don;t we all.

It's been posted loads of times from the Trust Q&A but Sisu tried to negotiate a 3 year run off "ACL: Yes, Chris West and Paul Harris were advised post 29 January 2013 meeting during a follow up discussion with Tim Fisher, Mark Labovitch and John Clarke, that the Club wanted a three year run off period. This was totally rejected by the ACL representatives."

It's a cluster fuck, no doubt about it. But giving PWKH the benefit of doubt because he's better at the PR stuff than the others does our desire to get the club back no favours. Imo.

 

[valiant15]

Very good! If you dont just repeat what someone says go for the rent boy line. It doesnt take much for you to bite does it.

Never been to Sixfields, there is more chance of you going, but then you never went to the Ricoh either did you, so does that make me a Ricoh rent boy as well?

I had a season ticket every season since it opened dickhead.

 

[stupot07]

Now you are starting to swing me.

Yes I felt confident at one nil down.

12 years since I felt that confidence.

My concern is JS said freehold at my price or nothing.

That is why I don't believe Otium ever would have agreed to any rent deal and I genuinely believe that includes even 50k a year.

Why do you think SISU have never said we do want a deal to stay renting at the Ricoh and this is what it is?

No she didn't.


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[Brighton Sky Blue]

The freehold isn't necessary for the club to get access to money the ground makes, but it is necessary to totally exclude the council and anyone else from having an involvement-which is why Sepalla will only return the club there if she gets it. A new ground obviously has no council involvement from the outset so to her, it's a very favourable idea even if the financial implications, both direct and indirect, are enormous.

 

[torchomatic]

That's right and I don't blame her. I don't think (and this is my personal view) a council should have any involvement in a football club.

The freehold isn't necessary for the club to get access to money the ground makes, but it is necessary to totally exclude the council and anyone else from having an involvement-which is why Sepalla will only return the club there if she gets it. A new ground obviously has no council involvement from the outset so to her, it's a very favourable idea even if the financial implications, both direct and indirect, are enormous.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

That's right and I don't blame her. I don't think (and this is my personal view) a council should have any involvement in a football club.

Except even if it still retained the freehold, its involvement with the club would be negligible-all that is needed, at least in the immediate term, is to buy out ACL's holding in IEC, which is where all of the Ricoh's revenue goes.

 

[TurkeyTrot]

That's right and I don't blame her. I don't think (and this is my personal view) a council should have any involvement in a football club.

But you believe a hedge fund should?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

But you believe a hedge fund should?

His points weren't mutually exclusive.

 

[torchomatic]

A hedge fund, an entrepreneur, a property developer, an arab, a sheik, an industrialist, a oil tycoon, a newspaper magnet...I don't know. YOU tell me what you find acceptable. FFS, it's getting beyond a joke.

But you believe a hedge fund should?

 

[Jack Griffin]

Where did I say I was banned? I asked Nick to delete my account, which I'm sure he'll confirm if asked. Why on earth should I have to tell you what my name was back then? You sound like a bit of an idiot, to be honest.

I remember, you played the hurt feelings card about supposed personal slights and said you were never going to post again.
Unfortunately I can't quite remember your old user name.. but I remember I usually disagreed with what you posted, so some things never change.

 

[James Smith]

No she didn't.


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What she said to Les Reid in the infamous interview was this

Asked to be clear with fans and Coventrians if there were any hope of a Ricoh return, Ms Seppala said: “The club needs 100 per cent ownership of the freehold of the Ricoh. If you look back at the history of the club, you can see why this is important.”

She said she had made her position clear at a meeting with ACL directors on July 25, adding: “I had thought we were going to talk about a deal involving stadium ownership.”

Asked if it was an extreme bargaining position in public from which there may be room for private negotiation, she said: “I don’t posture. I always tell people what it is I need. I don’t go for wasting time in negotiations.

“There is no way we would go back to a rental deal. As I have said to the Football League when they asked recently if we would do a temporary arrangement, it would be irrational to return on an interim basis where I have any exposure to Coventry City Council whatsoever

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/coventry-city-fc-owner-joy-6096912

So from reading that If she doesn't go in for negotiations that waste time and she says she wants the freehold and won't rent then it is very possible but not 100% proven that she said something similar in the meeting in July.

ACL claimed that she did say something similar

Mr Fisher has also now chosen to make factually inaccurate public statements relating to the meeting attended by Joy Seppala as well as ACL Board members on Thursday 25 July. It is interesting to note Mr Fisher’s failure to mention Ms Seppala’s verbal statement during this meeting, made in the presence of her own lawyers that the only circumstance in which the Club would return to the Ricoh would be upon SISU assuming full ownership of the venue without any negotiation on purchase price. Ms Seppala also stated at this meeting her intention to continue to threaten ACL and its shareholders with expensive litigation at every possible opportunity. Perhaps the fact that Mr Fisher was not himself present at this meeting has distorted his view of what was really discussed.

http://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/34951-ACL-Statement?p=509700&viewfull=1#post509700

But again that's the ACL version of events and they're not exactly neutral in all this. Taken together however it does look like she might very well have said something along those lines but it isn't 100% proven.

Also interesting to note where she says

"where I have any exposure to Coventry City Council"

surely the club would be the ones with the exposure?

 

[stupot07]

Except even if it still retained the freehold, its involvement with the club would be negligible-all that is needed, at least in the immediate term, is to buy out ACL's holding in IEC, which is where all of the Ricoh's revenue goes.

True, can't wait to see IEC's accounts, I still don't understand how they only make a paltry c10% profit from F&B's.....I may be wrong but I suspect there must be some hefty management costs taken out of that.


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[lordsummerisle]

I remember, you played the hurt feelings card about supposed personal slights and said you were never going to post again.
Unfortunately I can't quite remember your old user name.. but I remember I usually disagreed with what you posted, so some things never change.

I thought it was Astute who flounced off for about 20 minutes?

If Grappa is a s Pro-Sisu as some seem to think, then if it was a while ago that he supposedly left then you would surely have been agreeing with everything he said?

 

[stupot07]

What she said to Les Reid in the infamous interview was this

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/coventry-city-fc-owner-joy-6096912

So from reading that If she doesn't go in for negotiations that waste time and she says she wants the freehold and won't rent then it is very possible but not 100% proven that she said something similar in the meeting in July.

ACL claimed that she did say something similar

http://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/34951-ACL-Statement?p=509700&viewfull=1#post509700

But again that's the ACL version of events and they're not exactly neutral in all this. Taken together however it does look like she might very well have said something along those lines but it isn't 100% proven.

I see you cherry picked your quotes from The Les Reid interview. What about the following paragraphs:

Sisu and its related firm Otium, which now runs the club, says a fair price for the Ricoh and the potential development land around it could be agreed by taking the average of each sides’ surveyors’ valuations, based on potential income.

“Realistically, this council don’t think they can work with me. I know I cannot work with them. It doesn’t mean I can’t negotiate a deal.




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[Jack Griffin]

Nope, you seem a bit confused LSI.. I'm sorry if your memory isn't as good as mine.

 

[torchomatic]

Yes he did. To be fair I did once too.

And we'd miss Astute's contribution if he did go. I mean, who would "like" all the posts by PWKH and Dongo if he left?

I thought it was Astute who flounced off for about 20 minutes?

If Grappa is a s Pro-Sisu as some seem to think, then if it was a while ago that he supposedly left then you would surely have been agreeing with everything he said?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

True, can't wait to see IEC's accounts, I still don't understand how they only make a paltry c10% profit from F&B's.....I may be wrong but I suspect there must be some hefty management costs taken out of that.


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That is where the real money is to be made so discussions on the freehold or indeed anything else are a waste of time-this is purely about a personal issue with the council and buying the freehold gets rid of them, hence the importance being put on it.

 

[Jack Griffin]

True, can't wait to see IEC's accounts, I still don't understand how they only make a paltry c10% profit from F&B's.....I may be wrong but I suspect there must be some hefty management costs taken out of that.


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If there is it is probably because Compass paid £4M to acquire the trading rights they have, they own a minor share in the company, that means they get a minor share of its profits, but the agreement may include charges that flow to Compass as you say. BTW, the contract as I understand it is for the whole arena on a day to day basis, not just stadium event staffing & catering.

I guess its the price ACL paid to get money to invest in improvements.

 

[torchomatic]

I've re-read my post again and I certainly can't see anywhere I've written "I believe a hedge fund should own Coventry City". I look forward to TT coming back to me and sharing who he and the Trust think should own the Club. Hopefully it won't be "the fans" chestnut.

His points weren't mutually exclusive.

 

[Jack Griffin]

I see you cherry picked your quotes from The Les Reid interview. What about the following paragraphs:

Sisu and its related firm Otium, which now runs the club, says a fair price for the Ricoh and the potential development land around it could be agreed by taking the average of each sides’ surveyors’ valuations, based on potential income.

“Realistically, this council don’t think they can work with me. I know I cannot work with them. It doesn’t mean I can’t negotiate a deal.

She also said “I don’t posture. I always tell people what it is I need. I don’t go for wasting time in negotiations."

 

[stupot07]

She also said “I don’t posture. I always tell people what it is I need. I don’t go for wasting time in negotiations."

That's not the same as demanding her price or no price. That could easily mean not fannying around and making sure the right people are there that can make decisions, instead of having to wait for people to go back and ask.

 

[torchomatic]

It could also mean she eats the hearts of orphans.

That's not the same as demanding her price or no price. That could easily mean not fannying around and making sure the right people are there that can make decisions, instead of having to wait for people to go back and ask.

 

[Jack Griffin]

That's not the same as demanding her price or no price. That could easily mean not fannying around and making sure the right people are there that can make decisions, instead of having to wait for people to go back and ask.

Well how come they're still fannying about after owning the club for years. Where is their land for a new stadium, their club shop (still not open is it?), their academy site etc.

Anyway, as far as I can see she just puts people she deals with in impossible positions and makes more & more unreasonable demands..

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I've re-read my post again and I certainly can't see anywhere I've written "I believe a hedge fund should own Coventry City". I look forward to TT coming back to me and sharing who he and the Trust think should own the Club. Hopefully it won't be "the fans" chestnut.

I'm sure Cardiff care a lot about being owned by obscure businessmen and being up to their eyes in debt when they've got top flight football. The only difference with us is that we're two leagues lower-in general football fans don't start caring about who runs their club until it starts going wrong.

 

[stupot07]

Well how come they're still fannying about after owning the club for years. Where is their land for a new stadium, their club shop (still not open is it?), their academy site etc.

It takes 2 to tango

 

[stupot07]

I'm sure Cardiff care a lot about being owned by obscure businessmen and being up to their eyes in debt when they've got top flight football. The only difference with us is that we're two leagues lower-in general football fans don't start caring about who runs their club until it starts going wrong.

Wait until they get relegated or he stops pumping money into them or runs out of money....they'll care then.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Wait until they get relegated or he stops pumping money into them or runs out of money....they'll care then.

Which was exactly my point.

 

[Jack Griffin]

It takes 2 to tango

The said they were finished with ACL.. so how come their still fannying about talking?

 

[Grappa]

I remember, you played the hurt feelings card about supposed personal slights and said you were never going to post again.
Unfortunately I can't quite remember your old user name.. but I remember I usually disagreed with what you posted, so some things never change.

You really are a funny little chap aren't you.

I have never flounced from this or any other board. My previous account was hacked, I pm'd Nick asking him if he could sort it out, he tried to fix it but couldn't guarantee it wouldn't happen again so I politely asked him to close the account. No playing the hurt feelings card, no personal slights, no announcement that I was never going to post again. Again, I'm sure Nick will verify this as he'll have copies of our correspondence though whether he can actually be arsed just because an idiot on the internet wants to make out he's a superhuman memory machine is another matter entirely.

 

[stupot07]

The said they were finished with ACL.. so how come their still fannying about talking?

Ffs. I really can't be arsed with another debate about this. Don't you want then to come together to start negotiations that could see us return home?

I was just pointing out that Joy never said her price or no price, other than an unsubstantiated comment from ACL, and that her article suggests they would negotiate on price.


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[Samo]

It could also mean she eats the hearts of orphans.

Oh she does, she eats the hearts of orphans. There was a thread on it!

 

[torchomatic]

There was a great article in the Independent a few weeks ago about Cardiff called "Be Careful What You Wish For". Some on on here should give it a read.

I'm sure Cardiff care a lot about being owned by obscure businessmen and being up to their eyes in debt when they've got top flight football. The only difference with us is that we're two leagues lower-in general football fans don't start caring about who runs their club until it starts going wrong.