Only the team & fans matter - genius or madness? (1 Viewer)

[MichaelCCFC]

Team and fans are all that matter and both were brilliant yesterday. I've decided I want for Christmas: Ricoh to b a community asset; Independent Inquiry to call to account all those responsible for the mess we are in; sisu to accept fan-led take over of CCFC (alongside co-investors who are City fans too) = giving CCFC a fresh start back at the Ricoh with only two things mattering - the team and the fans. and both were brilliant yesterday (recurring). Genius or madness?

 

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[Cheshire Sky Blue]

Team and fans are all that matter and both were brilliant yesterday. I've decided I want for Christmas: Ricoh to b a community asset; Independent Inquiry to call to account all those responsible for the mess we are in; sisu to accept fan-led take over of CCFC (alongside co-investors who are City fans too) = giving CCFC a fresh start back at the Ricoh with only two things mattering - the team and the fans. and both were brilliant yesterday (recurring). Genius or madness?

With you on this Michael. That would be the best present ever, I might even start believing in Santa again.

By the way, well done in your campaign, a true SKY BLUE.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Sounds like a pipe dream to me

 

[MichaelCCFC]

Sounds like a pipe dream to me

Know what you're saying but thinking about yesterday, team and fans are battling on and didn't cause this mess so rather than waiting for acl-sisu to act like adults and talk why don't we say they have proved themselves unworthy of the team and supporters and fan-led ownership couldn't do any worse and at least would only care about the team and supporters not all the other **** acl-sisu go on about. could also unite fans in telling acl-sisu they're both unworthy of being connected with CCFC

 

[Jack Griffin]

It would be nice Michael, but I believe we have a long and unpleasant journey to make before an acceptable solution is reached.

 

[shmmeee]

In terms of end game I like the idea, but it's how we get there that's the problem.

Personally I think the only way fans will own the club is after admin/liquidation and correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the community still have to raise the funds to buy the asset? How would we do that without an investor?

Also, I massively disagree with a major investor. It may go against fans' want for a immediately successful team, but I think it's a bad idea and goes against the idea of fan ownership. I'd like to see an elected board, 100% fan ownership and a business model that follows the MK Dons model (community, academy, cheap tickets for kids) hate them all you like but they're a brilliant case study for building support and a sustainable club.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

In terms of end game I like the idea, but it's how we get there that's the problem.

Personally I think the only way fans will own the club is after admin/liquidation and correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the community still have to raise the funds to buy the asset? How would we do that without an investor?

Also, I massively disagree with a major investor. It may go against fans' want for a immediately successful team, but I think it's a bad idea and goes against the idea of fan ownership. I'd like to see an elected board, 100% fan ownership and a business model that follows the MK Dons model (community, academy, cheap tickets for kids) hate them all you like but they're a brilliant case study for building support and a sustainable club.

But MK Dons still need(ed) a major investor to make it work.

Actually, we should rephrase, we don't want investors, we want benefactors...

I'd also suggest the piss ups in breweries organised by all of us in the name of protest exemplify very clearly why fans shouldn't be let anywhere near running the club!

As I said elsewhere, I'd rather a competent non fan as CEO than an incompetent fan.

 

[stupot07]

Can't see it happening, and like Shhmeee says you'd still have to raise capital.

I don't know what the rules are on community assets but has the Ricoh given enough to the community over a long enough period to warrant it? Away from the football stadia it's more a corporate entity with business events, etc, than a community asset.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse and spelling or grammar errors

 

[torchomatic]

I guess that was because they landed in a new town with no football heritage. They had to sell the idea. I remember at the end of the 70s that Team Fiat had a similar model. I went to Wembley Arena to see them.

But you're right, regardless of the reasons behind it doing stuff like that is a must. To be fair though Sky Blues in the Community do an excellent job for our kids.

hate them all you like but they're a brilliant case study for building support and a sustainable club.

 

[Cheshire Sky Blue]

In terms of end game I like the idea, but it's how we get there that's the problem.

Personally I think the only way fans will own the club is after admin/liquidation and correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the community still have to raise the funds to buy the asset? How would we do that without an investor?

Also, I massively disagree with a major investor. It may go against fans' want for a immediately successful team, but I think it's a bad idea and goes against the idea of fan ownership. I'd like to see an elected board, 100% fan ownership and a business model that follows the MK Dons model (community, academy, cheap tickets for kids) hate them all you like but they're a brilliant case study for building support and a sustainable club.

shmmeee, you make a very valid point here. With all that has gone on, can we / could we ever trust a major money bags ever again. A fan led take over is in my view the dream solution. I just doubt that there is sufficient knowledge and knowhow amongst SBT to achieve this. But Portsmouth have accomplished it, we should seek their advice and guidance. Imagine CCFC the community football club for the benefit of the City of Coventry. ACL could give us 3 years free rent!!

 

[Deleted member 5849]

The problem is the models of fan ownership in this country, the way football's set up in this country, tend to only work as interim firefighting measures.

Better to have a similar constitution to how Arsenal were set up, in my view. 25% maximum stake in the club for any one shareholder, allow anybody to buy shares.

And, if you want a voice for the fans, then 25% maximum for an individual with 10% minimum ringfenced for 'ordinary' fan small shareholders would give fans influence, without being primarily responsible.

 

[shmmeee]

But MK Dons still need(ed) a major investor to make it work.

Actually, we should rephrase, we don't want investors, we want benefactors...

I'd also suggest the piss ups in breweries organised by all of us in the name of protest exemplify very clearly why fans shouldn't be let anywhere near running the club!

As I said elsewhere, I'd rather a competent non fan as CEO than an incompetent fan.

Well we've had plenty of incompetent non fans, we might just end up with a competent fan!

I'm not 100% sure on how to ensure proper governance of the club, but ultimately the ownership has to be with the supporters, if this whole debacle has shown nothing else it's that football clubs are community assets not businesses and should be treated as such.

I also have more faith in football fans as a collective, and I'd hope a 2 year term would ensure that knee-jerk reactions don't happen. I think that while we're all capable of being insane for short periods and a minority are insane for long periods, on the whole we're sane over the long term.

I'd be happy with a benefactor, my worry with "investors" would be that it'd be similar to how Richardson did it with transfer betting or we'd end up selling the ground like Portsmouth to pay back a debt.

I think most fans would support the sustainable direction (ironically, Sisu's current footballing direction), especially after the last decade.

 

[shmmeee]

The problem is the models of fan ownership in this country, the way football's set up in this country, tend to only work as interim firefighting measures.

Better to have a similar constitution to how Arsenal were set up, in my view. 25% maximum stake in the club for any one shareholder, allow anybody to buy shares.

And, if you want a voice for the fans, then 25% maximum for an individual with 10% minimum ringfenced for 'ordinary' fan small shareholders would give fans influence, without being primarily responsible.

I agree nothing has been done well in this country. I understand Germany has a working model, but I don't know much about it or if the fact that all clubs are run like that effects how it works.

To be honest, the main reason I want fan ownership is to stop the club running up debts that are then passed on to the next guy until the club goes bust.

 

[shmmeee]

shmmeee, you make a very valid point here. With all that has gone on, can we / could we ever trust a major money bags ever again. A fan led take over is in my view the dream solution. I just doubt that there is sufficient knowledge and knowhow amongst SBT to achieve this. But Portsmouth have accomplished it, we should seek their advice and guidance. Imagine CCFC the community football club for the benefit of the City of Coventry. ACL could give us 3 years free rent!!

The Trust have been very close to both Supporters Direct and Pompey Trust for some time AFAIK. Lots of experience to draw on and I'd imagine their membership would increase and become more active if this was a real possibility, widening the talent pool.

 

[RegTheDonk]

Like the idea, but how does Joy get her £60 million?

 

[shmmeee]

Like the idea, but how does Joy get her £60 million?

That's the kicker isn't it?

The only way this would happen is after liquidation/admin with the club debt free.

Unfortunately, if Sisu get the Ricoh then the pricetag on the club would immediately be set to whatever Sisu have lost on their investment I suspect, ruling out anyone with the club's interests at heart.

And that's why I support the liquidation of the club.

 

[Cheshire Sky Blue]

The Trust have been very close to both Supporters Direct and Pompey Trust for some time AFAIK. Lots of experience to draw on and I'd imagine their membership would increase and become more active if this was a real possibility, widening the talent pool.

The consideration of a fan led take over of CCFC has been very low on the list of potential solutions. I think we have to accept that there are NO white knights prepared to take on CCFC and that this is ultimately this the route to take. There are many wise contributors to this forum, and many that could make it a reality.
This would be a valid campaign, is there enough energy and will to bring it to be? CCC / ACL and SBT could be the bodies that bring about the change in mind-set. Is this the way forward?

 

[Nick]

The consideration of a fan led take over of CCFC has been very low on the list of potential solutions. I think we have to accept that there are NO white knights prepared to take on CCFC and that this is ultimately this the route to take. There are many wise contributors to this forum, and many that could make it a reality.
This would be a valid campaign, is there enough energy and will to bring it to be? CCC / ACL and SBT could be the bodies that bring about the change in mind-set. Is this the way forward?

People may be wise but who will finance it all?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

To be honest, the main reason I want fan ownership is to stop the club running up debts that are then passed on to the next guy until the club goes bust.

The likes of Notts County, Lincoln, Mansfield all got taken over as last resort, but all almost ended up dead as the fans collectives couldn't sustain the club (and didn;t Notss County show great judgement over who to bail them out!!). There's also a similar problem with Ebbsfleet, the ultimate model.

Even pointing at those that seemingly work, like Exeter, have issues. Fans are now fed up at the lack of progress(!) and an ever increasing number are agitating for them to 'give it a go'. meanwhile, the club just about keeps its head above water.

Now you could argue in that case we're stymied until someone comes along and the entire English football bubble bursts, and that may be true(!) but this country's setup seems to allow the best case working being a benevolant dictatorship, where a small group of wealthy owners take the decisions.

 

[shmmeee]

People may be wise but who will finance it all?

And we're back to square one. It's only possible if the club is debt free and available for nothing or very little.

So basically, only if the club is in admin/liquidated.

 

[shmmeee]

The likes of Notts County, Lincoln, Mansfield all got taken over as last resort, but all almost ended up dead as the fans collectives couldn't sustain the club (and didn;t Notss County show great judgement over who to bail them out!!). There's also a similar problem with Ebbsfleet, the ultimate model.

Even pointing at those that seemingly work, like Exeter, have issues. Fans are now fed up at the lack of progress(!) and an ever increasing number are agitating for them to 'give it a go'. meanwhile, the club just about keeps its head above water.

Now you could argue in that case we're stymied until someone comes along and the entire English football bubble bursts, and that may be true(!) but this country's setup seems to allow the best case working being a benevolent dictatorship, where a small group of wealthy investors take the decisions.

And that those wealthy investors never actually want their money back.

Frankly, and this is just me, if it's a choice of sit around waiting for a sheik or go bust, I'd rather go bust. Again, just me, but I'd be happier supporting a lower league team that is rooted in it's community (and before you suggest an existing local club, I'm afraid I'm City til I die, or they do, without the connection I just don't care about football enough).

I accept that we might just be rearranging deck-chairs on the Titanic that is British football, but I don't see any logical reason why a fan owned club with a strong constitution about debt couldn't be a success. However I'll admit that I simply don't know enough about other club's situations to make a coherent argument, it's more an ideological position.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

And that those wealthy investors never actually want their money back.

I changed it to owners as I forgot my own rule

See how easily we get sucked into the dominant discourse that sees football ownership as investment!

 

[shmmeee]

Reading up on Exter at the moment, fascinating. The main problems seem to be an insular board and debate on whether they want to own the freehold of the ground or not.

Plus ca change.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Exeter are a fine case study.

The ever increasing pressure on board to push the boat out, and ever increasing criticism of Tisdale shows how the masses aren't always right, too!

That said, we see it here to an extent. Criticism of SISU for not signing enough players, but exactly the reason we're in this mess is successive boards have chased the quick fix gamble of signing players, rather than sorting the infrastructure.

Incidentally, time for a thread...

 

[Gary.j]

I agree, fan ownership is the way forward for me, but ONLY without the debt! If that means having to take some steps backward to regain control of the club, and for the benefit of future stability then, for me, it's a price worth paying. For me, this isn't about where we are playing this season or next season, it's about a solid foundation to develop and grow over ten, twenty, fifty years.

Supporters direct are there to assist in enterprises such as this, maybe clubs like Swansea and Wimbledon would offer support.

It can be done, IMO we are the only people who should be running our club, and I'm sure that the right type of people are within our ranks.

I think it's something we should seriously consider. I also think that, should the current board decide to cut their losses and walk away, we should be ready to jump in before any opportunists.

Maybe now, instead of arguing over who is to blame for our situation, we should start asking "who can we work with?"

I would happily meet with anyone who wants to discuss these ideas.

 

[mark82]

Team and fans are all that matter and both were brilliant yesterday. I've decided I want for Christmas: Ricoh to b a community asset; Independent Inquiry to call to account all those responsible for the mess we are in; sisu to accept fan-led take over of CCFC (alongside co-investors who are City fans too) = giving CCFC a fresh start back at the Ricoh with only two things mattering - the team and the fans. and both were brilliant yesterday (recurring). Genius or madness?

Think we could all agree that would be lovely (although I'm sure, without having read the thread some have).

 

[mark82]

I agree, fan ownership is the way forward for me, but ONLY without the debt! If that means having to take some steps backward to regain control of the club, and for the benefit of future stability then, for me, it's a price worth paying. For me, this isn't about where we are playing this season or next season, it's about a solid foundation to develop and grow over ten, twenty, fifty years.

Supporters direct are there to assist in enterprises such as this, maybe clubs like Swansea and Wimbledon would offer support.

It can be done, IMO we are the only people who should be running our club, and I'm sure that the right type of people are within our ranks.

I think it's something we should seriously consider. I also think that, should the current board decide to cut their losses and walk away, we should be ready to jump in before any opportunists.

Maybe now, instead of arguing over who is to blame for our situation, we should start asking "who can we work with?"

I would happily meet with anyone who wants to discuss these ideas.

I still think this is something that should be looked at post Christmas for sure. My views have changed somewhat over the last couple of months but still think this is worth planning even if in the end it isn't followed through.

 

[Gary.j]

I still think this is something that should be looked at post Christmas for sure. My views have changed somewhat over the last couple of months but still think this is worth planning even if in the end it isn't followed through.

Absolutely, what ever route we choose to take needs preparation and planning, and that takes time!