Broken Hearted Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
I'm glad that youi find something to laugh about in this sorry saga.
Prison of Measured Time blog issues full apology & corrections to Les Reid (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter The Bear
- Start date
I'm glad that youi find something to laugh about in this sorry saga.
Les's response is worth a read:
"I wish to make a few points clear, in light of the previous version of this blog, now finally corrected with an apology.
The blog prompted persistent angry personal attacks and abuse on this and other sites. It contained false and reckless misrepresentation of my “opinion piece” blog, and highly defamatory innuendo based on those provable falsehoods, for which I now have an apology.
Supported by my editor, I call on campaign leaders and web publishers to act more responsibly. There is a real danger of inciting heightened anger and hatred against individuals. I call on some fellow Coventry City fans to calm down and have more perspective. The angry divide between Sky Blues fans is particularly sad.
We as journalists are used to criticism and abuse. It will continue, of course. We do not generally waste much valuable time reading angry vitriol. I am used to being shot at as a political journalist with extensive experience reporting and commenting on both local and national politics. It often indicates we are doing our job independently and well in holding people to account.
We have ignored abuse for months on this issue. We believe in free speech – within certain limits, which we as media organisations have to legally abide by.
But things have got way out of hand. Trolling, cyber-bullying, personal attacks and abuse are unacceptable. So too, in the view of many, is shouting ‘scabs’ from Jimmy’s Hill at fans attending ‘home’ matches at Northampton. That should be condemned by campaign leaders.
It is counter-productive for any campaigning to become so confrontational with the media, simply because all sides are being reported and scrutinised. I have witnessed appalling abuse of other Coventry journalists too. Those tactics will not work. We are calling for reason.
To imply that my, or my newspaper’s, coverage has been biased is wholly misleading. Although I have been shot down by a noisy minority, my work has been well received by thousands as “balanced”, and I have reported and scrutinised all sides.
Fair-minded people know I have put accurate, non-libellous information into the public domain which would otherwise not have been known. For example, my grilling of Tim Fisher and the Football League delivered key admissions, based on the evidence, which were lapped up by the “Not One Penny More” anti-Sisu campaign. I have delivered exclusives including the confidential CVA terms, the Northampton groundshare, and Brandon heads of terms, to name just three.
For the record, I am not “pro-Sisu”. I urge readers to read again what my “opinion piece” blog actually states (‘What now to get Coventry City back at the Ricoh’, Coventry Telegraph website, Sept 20). It is linked in the above blog. It argues, among many other points, that talks over Ricoh ownership would, on the incomplete balance of evidence so far, represent the most likely prospect of a return to the Ricoh “soon”. It argues a return to the Ricoh soon is what people appear to want above all else.
My blog expressly states that I make no ultimate judgement over what should happen – and it should be for hardcore fans, the latent tens of thousands of fans and wider city taxpayers to decide what they want, – and that they could still influence the outcome.
My blog also states I had been alive to a club takeover being the best solution, and that common ownership of club and stadium might ultimately be the quickest way to see Sisu ultimately exit Coventry, through a sale.
The Joy Seppala interview was for a general readership, not for the obsessives or any one campaign group. It inevitably involves her having her say, as she is entitled to. It is clearly presented in a framework of critical questions. The priority was to sound her out over whether she might still be considering a return to the Ricoh (and, if so, on what basis) – despite Tim Fisher’s recent public comments that there was no chance. The interview write-up then demonstrates I challenged her over whether her answer was genuine.
I then grilled her on the big issues for a general readership – funding losses at Northampton, groundsharing, acccounts, assets, Sisu’s depleting value, why she is so secretive and anonymous, why she was doing the interview etc.
I did not overly elaborate on my questions in the write-up as it was already one of the longest word-counts for the Telegraph! It could not cover all ground, and I was well aware that I would continue to have every opportunity to challenge Otium/Sisu as my reporting and scrutinising continued.
I have also offered Martin Reeves, Ann Lucas and any Arena Coventry Limited/Coventry City Council senior person an interview on the same basis as the Seppala one. They have declined so far. Through the totality of our coverage, all sides have had their say many times, including club take-over hopefuls and ACL.
Among a wider readership, the Seppala interview was well received as a contribution to the debate – however frustrating her words were for many. Its purpose was partly to record her words – for the first time. It was always going to trigger a debate about whether her claims were genuine.
I do not believe that Sisu’s business structure under any hypothetical Ricoh freehold ownership – which the interview revealed to be even more unlikely as things stand – was the key question I failed to put, as the blog suggests, and definitely not for a general readership.
In a hypothetical world, I have little reason to doubt that the Ricoh would be held by a newco “Sisu” property company, separate to the operational company running the club. It would seem other clubs work in this way – as perhaps would Coventry City under a new owner, such as Haskell or Schwimmer. It is clearly not the same thing as the previous landlord/tenant relationship, as one group of companies would own the stadium and club.
Neither is reporting/debate on such issues new. I and others reported last year on Sisu related fund Arvo Master Fund’s charge/debenture, which intended to use assets AND FUTURE ASSETS as security against Arvo’s investment. In the interview last week, Seppala states, “I want a return on my investment.” She goes on to make claims about why it is important to unite the club and a stadium for revenue “value creation”. I offer no judgement here on her claims. I will continue to report the issues.
This blog in its modified form is in my opinion a more useful contribution to the debate. But it still contains unsubstantiated and unsourced claims. Its claims about the value for the Ricoh Arena appear to be wholly one-sided and misleading. For instance, of course property values do not necessarily simply rise with inflation, and the council originally invested nothing like the full £118m build costs (see my blog).
Finally, for simplicity, Joy Seppala’s Sisu Capital has been described as the club’s owner since 2007, as it is at the heart of the club’s complex business structure as the hedge fund/private equity firm managing funders’ investment in the club.
There is much more I could explain but I have written enough. We will continue to report from, and challenge, all sides."
Sky Blue Ian
New Member
Heard the same from a first team player. theyre not remotely interested in the politics
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
i still think les read should do an interview with ainsworth to really address the balance.
GaryPendrysEyes
Well-Known Member
In my view the lasting damage to Reid's credibility was his behaviour on twitter following this, which even the GMK lot thought over the top-- along with the over-self praise which has become a joke..
It's now best he concentrates on politics and leaves football/the ricoh to someone else...
It's now best he concentrates on politics and leaves football/the ricoh to someone else...
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Who? The highly articulate letsalltalkbollocks? How about sky blue kid? Abyone with a biased view supporting your warped agenda?
No thanks. He's an independent journalist telling the truth and long may it continue.
davebart
Active Member
If you say so - can't be arsed to go through it.
covcity4life
Well-Known Member
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
Grenduffy.....Who? The highly articulate letsalltalkbollocks? How about sky blue kid? Abyone with a biased view supporting your warped agenda?....................................................................................................................................................Am I biased?, Erm, mmm, let me see.............6 years of tenure, Sells anything not nailed down, hires a donkey for a manager, relegation from the Championship, puts us into Administration, takes us out of our City............................................YES! you're right Grenduffy, I am biased!
hill83
Well-Known Member
you smell
lewys33
Well-Known Member
GaryPendrysEyes
Well-Known Member
From Grendel the unbiased man who said 'Coventry Council are 100% to blame for everything'..
... Les Reid has in my opinion, more openly via Twitter, increasing nailed his colours to the anti-CCC mast, opposing those criticising Sisu, and encouraging a Ricoh sale to Sisu. He isn't unbiased and he is out of step with the vast majority of Cov fans in my opinion.
Alun Thorne should move him aside from things CCFC and Ricoh. it's not like Coventry hasn't got lots of political issues to explore.
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
Les Reid has a go at SBS from aprisonofmeasuredtime, by saying..........QUOTE..."The interview starts with an inaccuracy, describing Seppala as the ‘owner’ of Coventry City. Hedge funds generally control on behalf of investors. The identities of the investors remain unknown, registered in a tax haven.................................................................................................................Is it different when it says in the CET.....QUOTE... By Les Reid Coventry City owner Joy Seppala speaks out about long-running dispute over Ricoh Arena 25 Sep 2013 15:43 Hedge fund boss faces two hours of questioning from Telegraph political reporter Les Reid in first interview with any media organisation since company took over club
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
Les Reid has a go at SBS from aprisonofmeasuredtime, by saying..........QUOTE..."The interview starts with an inaccuracy, describing Seppala as the ‘owner’ of Coventry City. Hedge funds generally control on behalf of investors. The identities of the investors remain unknown, registered in a tax haven.................................................................................................................Is it different when it says in the CET.....QUOTE... By Les Reid Coventry City owner Joy Seppala speaks out about long-running dispute over Ricoh Arena 25 Sep 2013 15:43 Hedge fund boss faces two hours of questioning from Telegraph political reporter Les Reid in first interview with any media organisation since company took over club
It's actually SBSquirrel saying "The interview starts with an inaccuracy, describing Seppala as the ‘owner’ of Coventry City...", not Les Reid.
mrtrench
Well-Known Member
Nobody seems to have mentioned the censorship implications here. CET removes any criticism of SISU or its own journalism from their website. I assume that this apology is also driven by CET putting legal pressure on this blog to remove all of the criticism - although I do not know that to be true. Reid may deny it to the cows come home, however certainly the tone of his tweets implicate that he is partisan. And the article itself failed to address any of the concerns we all have. He went onto the blog over and over again to comment before everything was removed - not once accepting any criticism from the numerous people who disagreed with him.
I am disappointed by the poor reporting from the CET on this matter, and now shocked that they are removing all traces of dissent. Is nobody else worried about this?
I am disappointed by the poor reporting from the CET on this matter, and now shocked that they are removing all traces of dissent. Is nobody else worried about this?
Don't care what Les Reid says or tries to bully other voices. I've read the Seppala 'interview.' It is feeble in the extreme. Lame, Doesn't push her at any point. It is basically a PR exercise on her behalf. A complete betrayal of CCFC. He had the chance to question her and fluffed it. As I said elsewhere, he could have been Jeremy Paxman, instead he was Terry Wogan.
Nick
Administrator
I think there is a difference between criticizing and personally abusing though?
Astute
Well-Known Member
Just like there is a difference between an interview and printing someones view.
1
1940 oldfive
Guest
with all the grilling he claims to have done he should open a cafe QUOTE=Grappa;561071]Les's response is worth a read:
"I wish to make a few points clear, in light of the previous version of this blog, now finally corrected with an apology.
The blog prompted persistent angry personal attacks and abuse on this and other sites. It contained false and reckless misrepresentation of my “opinion piece” blog, and highly defamatory innuendo based on those provable falsehoods, for which I now have an apology.
Supported by my editor, I call on campaign leaders and web publishers to act more responsibly. There is a real danger of inciting heightened anger and hatred against individuals. I call on some fellow Coventry City fans to calm down and have more perspective. The angry divide between Sky Blues fans is particularly sad.
We as journalists are used to criticism and abuse. It will continue, of course. We do not generally waste much valuable time reading angry vitriol. I am used to being shot at as a political journalist with extensive experience reporting and commenting on both local and national politics. It often indicates we are doing our job independently and well in holding people to account.
We have ignored abuse for months on this issue. We believe in free speech – within certain limits, which we as media organisations have to legally abide by.
But things have got way out of hand. Trolling, cyber-bullying, personal attacks and abuse are unacceptable. So too, in the view of many, is shouting ‘scabs’ from Jimmy’s Hill at fans attending ‘home’ matches at Northampton. That should be condemned by campaign leaders.
It is counter-productive for any campaigning to become so confrontational with the media, simply because all sides are being reported and scrutinised. I have witnessed appalling abuse of other Coventry journalists too. Those tactics will not work. We are calling for reason.
To imply that my, or my newspaper’s, coverage has been biased is wholly misleading. Although I have been shot down by a noisy minority, my work has been well received by thousands as “balanced”, and I have reported and scrutinised all sides.
Fair-minded people know I have put accurate, non-libellous information into the public domain which would otherwise not have been known. For example, my grilling of Tim Fisher and the Football League delivered key admissions, based on the evidence, which were lapped up by the “Not One Penny More” anti-Sisu campaign. I have delivered exclusives including the confidential CVA terms, the Northampton groundshare, and Brandon heads of terms, to name just three.
For the record, I am not “pro-Sisu”. I urge readers to read again what my “opinion piece” blog actually states (‘What now to get Coventry City back at the Ricoh’, Coventry Telegraph website, Sept 20). It is linked in the above blog. It argues, among many other points, that talks over Ricoh ownership would, on the incomplete balance of evidence so far, represent the most likely prospect of a return to the Ricoh “soon”. It argues a return to the Ricoh soon is what people appear to want above all else.
My blog expressly states that I make no ultimate judgement over what should happen – and it should be for hardcore fans, the latent tens of thousands of fans and wider city taxpayers to decide what they want, – and that they could still influence the outcome.
My blog also states I had been alive to a club takeover being the best solution, and that common ownership of club and stadium might ultimately be the quickest way to see Sisu ultimately exit Coventry, through a sale.
The Joy Seppala interview was for a general readership, not for the obsessives or any one campaign group. It inevitably involves her having her say, as she is entitled to. It is clearly presented in a framework of critical questions. The priority was to sound her out over whether she might still be considering a return to the Ricoh (and, if so, on what basis) – despite Tim Fisher’s recent public comments that there was no chance. The interview write-up then demonstrates I challenged her over whether her answer was genuine.
I then grilled her on the big issues for a general readership – funding losses at Northampton, groundsharing, acccounts, assets, Sisu’s depleting value, why she is so secretive and anonymous, why she was doing the interview etc.
I did not overly elaborate on my questions in the write-up as it was already one of the longest word-counts for the Telegraph! It could not cover all ground, and I was well aware that I would continue to have every opportunity to challenge Otium/Sisu as my reporting and scrutinising continued.
I have also offered Martin Reeves, Ann Lucas and any Arena Coventry Limited/Coventry City Council senior person an interview on the same basis as the Seppala one. They have declined so far. Through the totality of our coverage, all sides have had their say many times, including club take-over hopefuls and ACL.
Among a wider readership, the Seppala interview was well received as a contribution to the debate – however frustrating her words were for many. Its purpose was partly to record her words – for the first time. It was always going to trigger a debate about whether her claims were genuine.
I do not believe that Sisu’s business structure under any hypothetical Ricoh freehold ownership – which the interview revealed to be even more unlikely as things stand – was the key question I failed to put, as the blog suggests, and definitely not for a general readership.
In a hypothetical world, I have little reason to doubt that the Ricoh would be held by a newco “Sisu” property company, separate to the operational company running the club. It would seem other clubs work in this way – as perhaps would Coventry City under a new owner, such as Haskell or Schwimmer. It is clearly not the same thing as the previous landlord/tenant relationship, as one group of companies would own the stadium and club.
Neither is reporting/debate on such issues new. I and others reported last year on Sisu related fund Arvo Master Fund’s charge/debenture, which intended to use assets AND FUTURE ASSETS as security against Arvo’s investment. In the interview last week, Seppala states, “I want a return on my investment.” She goes on to make claims about why it is important to unite the club and a stadium for revenue “value creation”. I offer no judgement here on her claims. I will continue to report the issues.
This blog in its modified form is in my opinion a more useful contribution to the debate. But it still contains unsubstantiated and unsourced claims. Its claims about the value for the Ricoh Arena appear to be wholly one-sided and misleading. For instance, of course property values do not necessarily simply rise with inflation, and the council originally invested nothing like the full £118m build costs (see my blog).
Finally, for simplicity, Joy Seppala’s Sisu Capital has been described as the club’s owner since 2007, as it is at the heart of the club’s complex business structure as the hedge fund/private equity firm managing funders’ investment in the club.
There is much more I could explain but I have written enough. We will continue to report from, and challenge, all sides."[/QUOTE]
"I wish to make a few points clear, in light of the previous version of this blog, now finally corrected with an apology.
The blog prompted persistent angry personal attacks and abuse on this and other sites. It contained false and reckless misrepresentation of my “opinion piece” blog, and highly defamatory innuendo based on those provable falsehoods, for which I now have an apology.
Supported by my editor, I call on campaign leaders and web publishers to act more responsibly. There is a real danger of inciting heightened anger and hatred against individuals. I call on some fellow Coventry City fans to calm down and have more perspective. The angry divide between Sky Blues fans is particularly sad.
We as journalists are used to criticism and abuse. It will continue, of course. We do not generally waste much valuable time reading angry vitriol. I am used to being shot at as a political journalist with extensive experience reporting and commenting on both local and national politics. It often indicates we are doing our job independently and well in holding people to account.
We have ignored abuse for months on this issue. We believe in free speech – within certain limits, which we as media organisations have to legally abide by.
But things have got way out of hand. Trolling, cyber-bullying, personal attacks and abuse are unacceptable. So too, in the view of many, is shouting ‘scabs’ from Jimmy’s Hill at fans attending ‘home’ matches at Northampton. That should be condemned by campaign leaders.
It is counter-productive for any campaigning to become so confrontational with the media, simply because all sides are being reported and scrutinised. I have witnessed appalling abuse of other Coventry journalists too. Those tactics will not work. We are calling for reason.
To imply that my, or my newspaper’s, coverage has been biased is wholly misleading. Although I have been shot down by a noisy minority, my work has been well received by thousands as “balanced”, and I have reported and scrutinised all sides.
Fair-minded people know I have put accurate, non-libellous information into the public domain which would otherwise not have been known. For example, my grilling of Tim Fisher and the Football League delivered key admissions, based on the evidence, which were lapped up by the “Not One Penny More” anti-Sisu campaign. I have delivered exclusives including the confidential CVA terms, the Northampton groundshare, and Brandon heads of terms, to name just three.
For the record, I am not “pro-Sisu”. I urge readers to read again what my “opinion piece” blog actually states (‘What now to get Coventry City back at the Ricoh’, Coventry Telegraph website, Sept 20). It is linked in the above blog. It argues, among many other points, that talks over Ricoh ownership would, on the incomplete balance of evidence so far, represent the most likely prospect of a return to the Ricoh “soon”. It argues a return to the Ricoh soon is what people appear to want above all else.
My blog expressly states that I make no ultimate judgement over what should happen – and it should be for hardcore fans, the latent tens of thousands of fans and wider city taxpayers to decide what they want, – and that they could still influence the outcome.
My blog also states I had been alive to a club takeover being the best solution, and that common ownership of club and stadium might ultimately be the quickest way to see Sisu ultimately exit Coventry, through a sale.
The Joy Seppala interview was for a general readership, not for the obsessives or any one campaign group. It inevitably involves her having her say, as she is entitled to. It is clearly presented in a framework of critical questions. The priority was to sound her out over whether she might still be considering a return to the Ricoh (and, if so, on what basis) – despite Tim Fisher’s recent public comments that there was no chance. The interview write-up then demonstrates I challenged her over whether her answer was genuine.
I then grilled her on the big issues for a general readership – funding losses at Northampton, groundsharing, acccounts, assets, Sisu’s depleting value, why she is so secretive and anonymous, why she was doing the interview etc.
I did not overly elaborate on my questions in the write-up as it was already one of the longest word-counts for the Telegraph! It could not cover all ground, and I was well aware that I would continue to have every opportunity to challenge Otium/Sisu as my reporting and scrutinising continued.
I have also offered Martin Reeves, Ann Lucas and any Arena Coventry Limited/Coventry City Council senior person an interview on the same basis as the Seppala one. They have declined so far. Through the totality of our coverage, all sides have had their say many times, including club take-over hopefuls and ACL.
Among a wider readership, the Seppala interview was well received as a contribution to the debate – however frustrating her words were for many. Its purpose was partly to record her words – for the first time. It was always going to trigger a debate about whether her claims were genuine.
I do not believe that Sisu’s business structure under any hypothetical Ricoh freehold ownership – which the interview revealed to be even more unlikely as things stand – was the key question I failed to put, as the blog suggests, and definitely not for a general readership.
In a hypothetical world, I have little reason to doubt that the Ricoh would be held by a newco “Sisu” property company, separate to the operational company running the club. It would seem other clubs work in this way – as perhaps would Coventry City under a new owner, such as Haskell or Schwimmer. It is clearly not the same thing as the previous landlord/tenant relationship, as one group of companies would own the stadium and club.
Neither is reporting/debate on such issues new. I and others reported last year on Sisu related fund Arvo Master Fund’s charge/debenture, which intended to use assets AND FUTURE ASSETS as security against Arvo’s investment. In the interview last week, Seppala states, “I want a return on my investment.” She goes on to make claims about why it is important to unite the club and a stadium for revenue “value creation”. I offer no judgement here on her claims. I will continue to report the issues.
This blog in its modified form is in my opinion a more useful contribution to the debate. But it still contains unsubstantiated and unsourced claims. Its claims about the value for the Ricoh Arena appear to be wholly one-sided and misleading. For instance, of course property values do not necessarily simply rise with inflation, and the council originally invested nothing like the full £118m build costs (see my blog).
Finally, for simplicity, Joy Seppala’s Sisu Capital has been described as the club’s owner since 2007, as it is at the heart of the club’s complex business structure as the hedge fund/private equity firm managing funders’ investment in the club.
There is much more I could explain but I have written enough. We will continue to report from, and challenge, all sides."[/QUOTE]
a vast difference but les reid can't seem to tell, any constructive criticism is responded too in the same way as if we'd kicked him in the balls and insulted his mum.
There is no question that les reid has received some unfair and over the top abuse like pretty much everyone in the public eye but while he has provided alot of useful information there have been alot of areas where he should have done better but he has been completely unwilling to listen to any polite suggestions of what could be done better for next time and now has turned into someone who appears very childish and mostly likes to stroke his own ego. Retweeting every bit of praise he receives.
mrtrench
Well-Known Member
I agree. On one of the responses on the blog, he wrote (and I paraphrase, because all of the criticism and his responses have been removed so I cannot check the exact wording), that he has lots of people who support him. And yet if you look at Twitter, he blocks any criticism and retweets the small amount of praise. Further, he bigs himself up with 'Hack of the Year', 'Grauniad Writer' etc. (parodied here Les and not to be taken literally) in his biog. I think that childish is the very best word to describe his behaviour.
mrtrench
Well-Known Member
There is, and I am not defending morons who email/tweet insults and non-constructive tosh. But this Measured Time blog wasn't like that, and neither were the responses to Les on the comments below (from a lot of different people, all of whom left their names). And yet the whole lot has gone, and Rob has been forced to issue some Reid-stroking apology. It may well be legal, but it's wrong.
LastGarrison
Well-Known Member
Because I heard from a good source that the Sky Blue Trust tied balloons to his dog.
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
@ Grappa....SBS did say that.....but the CET said it first!!! read this........http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/coventry-city-fc-owner-joy-6096912
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
@ Nick....I didn't know that you spelt the word "OWNER" with these 4 letters.."BOSS"
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
@ mrtrench.............................I think you'll find Mr Reid doesn't like to be proven wrong mate.
ohitsaidwalker king power
Well-Known Member
The relieved dog was last seen floating high above the atmosphere growling " gimme gimme gimme- Medalah".. along with blue prints for the new stadium in his mouth....
mrtrench
Well-Known Member
Yes I agree. Or perhaps better he leaves the paper and goes to another rag. I hear that the Neasden Advertiser has a slot. He could do an in-depth interview with Ron Knee and upset Sid and Doris Bonkers in the process.
J
Jack Griffin
Guest
Exactly the way I see it. In my opinion he promotes his version of a story & not only suppresses but is seen to attack anyone expressing a contradictory view. So much for freedom of expression.
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
Have you been blocked by Les Reid too?
