Human rights (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter jan87
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torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Funnily enough. No.
Philosoraptor
Well-Known Member
Could we up the stakes and go for crimes against Humanity?
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
you might have more luck getting someone who is disabled, and can't physically get to Sixfields, to open a case claiming discrimination. as far as I'm aware the club have made no effort to reach out to fans in that situation and offer them any assistance in getting to Sixfields.
Skybluerevolution (Pt2)
New Member
Children being gassed in Syria....or not being able to watch your football club in Coventry!
When I first read this thread, like most people, my first reaction was to chuckle.
However, thinking about it, these are the areas that offer the best opportunity to get at SISU.
It might be worth it if someone on here has a contact with a Human Rights lawyer to ask the question. There are many bizarre cases that have gone to the European Court of Human Rights.
SISU had no control over the Judge's verdict re the Judicial Review, neither do they have any control over the ECHR. SISU couldn't bully, threaten, intimidate or sue them to get their own way, and even if the case was lost it would create a massive amount of negative publicity for SISU, and further unwelcome (for them) public intrusion into the way they do business.
Not saying there would be a case to answer, but worth asking the question.
However, thinking about it, these are the areas that offer the best opportunity to get at SISU.
It might be worth it if someone on here has a contact with a Human Rights lawyer to ask the question. There are many bizarre cases that have gone to the European Court of Human Rights.
SISU had no control over the Judge's verdict re the Judicial Review, neither do they have any control over the ECHR. SISU couldn't bully, threaten, intimidate or sue them to get their own way, and even if the case was lost it would create a massive amount of negative publicity for SISU, and further unwelcome (for them) public intrusion into the way they do business.
Not saying there would be a case to answer, but worth asking the question.
Skybluerevolution (Pt2)
New Member
this thread is ridiculous...
georgehudson
Well-Known Member
indeed ridiculous, but the again, so are Fisher, Seppala, Brody, Clouting, Igwe, Dulieu, etc.,
imho, that is except,
the fact that they collectively seem to try & destroy OUR CLUB
imho, that is except,
the fact that they collectively seem to try & destroy OUR CLUB
skybluesam1987
New Member
I too chuckled when I read this at first but, as a wheelchair-user and st holder for since 1967 I have had no communication from the club whatsoever. Normally they would have written to everyone asking us to renew our season tickets but this season they were silent. Did any season ticket holders from last season get a letter thanking them for their support and asking them to renew? I know my son and my pal didn't get anything.
I wonder if the coaches they have put on are wheelchair accessible? I must admit, I haven't checked as I firmly believe the only way to rid us of Sisu is to cut off their money supply. I know some people want to keep going to six-fields, but I physically and economically can't even if I wanted to. But to be honest I wouldn't go if Fisher picked me up himself, took me to the match, bought my beer all day, gave me a slap up meal after and got JS to give me a BJ whilst watching Match of the Day.
I hate not being able to go and watch my team as it was the highlight of my fortnight. I will never go again until Sisu are gone. There have been too many broken promises and downright lies in the past and the move to Northampton is the final straw for me.
I feel better for getting that off my chest. Even if I get abused by the few on here who want to blame everything but Sisu.
I wonder if the coaches they have put on are wheelchair accessible? I must admit, I haven't checked as I firmly believe the only way to rid us of Sisu is to cut off their money supply. I know some people want to keep going to six-fields, but I physically and economically can't even if I wanted to. But to be honest I wouldn't go if Fisher picked me up himself, took me to the match, bought my beer all day, gave me a slap up meal after and got JS to give me a BJ whilst watching Match of the Day.
I hate not being able to go and watch my team as it was the highlight of my fortnight. I will never go again until Sisu are gone. There have been too many broken promises and downright lies in the past and the move to Northampton is the final straw for me.
I feel better for getting that off my chest. Even if I get abused by the few on here who want to blame everything but Sisu.
Of course it is ridiculous BUT then again how many ridiculous notions have they recently been called upon to adjudicate? As one poster has already said it would at least create some National publicity for our plight.
Nick
Administrator
Isn't that only if it is mid way through a season?
Astute
Well-Known Member
And we know they can afford it. They say they can afford to run us at a loss for 5 years whilst they get someone to build a ground for them. They have missed the boat here. It would have been cost effective. Then they would have been able to make a positive statement for once.
To me this proves that they either don't care about any of our supporters in the slightest or don't have a clue on how to run a football team.
Skybluerevolution (Pt2)
New Member
[h=2]The Court of Human Rights, is very important for many reasons, to even suggest what is going on at City should be considered is an absolute joke - Sixfields has disabled areas and toilets this complies with those customers needs, it is NOT CCFC job to arrange transport - if the club have not contacted disabled supporters that is just bad customer service, but I think there are a fair few including me that have not been contacted, discrimination? I think many on here get too obsessed that SISU are trying to do this and that...fine your not going to Sixfields, and NOPM - but some of the threads on here are bordering on obsessive paranoia - and if SISU were to read through some of the posts I am sure they, TF and JS might consider legal action, due to some of the name calling and accusations.
The UK before the European Court of Human Rights[edit source | editbeta][/h]By the end of 2010, the European Court of Human Rights had, in 271 cases, found violations of the European Convention of Human Rights by the United Kingdom.[4].[SUP][4][/SUP] These judgments cover a wide variety of areas, from the rights of prisoners to trade union activities. The decisions have also had a profound effect and influence on the approach adopted by the UK to the regulation of activities which could potentially engage Convention rights. As one author has noted, "[t]here is hardly an area of state regulation untouched by standards which have emerged from the application of Convention provisions to situations presented by individual applicants."[SUP][24][/SUP]
Notable cases involving violations of the Convention include:
The UK before the European Court of Human Rights[edit source | editbeta][/h]By the end of 2010, the European Court of Human Rights had, in 271 cases, found violations of the European Convention of Human Rights by the United Kingdom.[4].[SUP][4][/SUP] These judgments cover a wide variety of areas, from the rights of prisoners to trade union activities. The decisions have also had a profound effect and influence on the approach adopted by the UK to the regulation of activities which could potentially engage Convention rights. As one author has noted, "[t]here is hardly an area of state regulation untouched by standards which have emerged from the application of Convention provisions to situations presented by individual applicants."[SUP][24][/SUP]
Notable cases involving violations of the Convention include:
- Criminal sanctions for private consensual homosexual conduct (Dudgeon, 1981);
- Refusal to legally recognise transsexuals (Rees, 1986);
- Different ages of consent for homosexuals and heterosexuals (Sutherland, 2000);
- Parents' rights to exempt their children from corporal punishment in schools (Campbell and Cosans, 1982);
- Sentencing a juvenile young offender to be "birched" (Tyrer, 1978);
- Wiretapping of suspects in the absence of any legal regulation (Malone, 1984);
- Restrictions on prisoners' correspondence and visits by their lawyers (Golder, 1975);
- Routine strip-searching of visitors to a prison (Wainwright, 2006);
- Allowing the Home Secretary rather than a court to fix the length of sentences (Easterbrook, 2003);
- Admitting testimony obtained under coercion as evidence (Saunders, 1996);
- Keeping a suspect incommunicado in oppressive conditions without access to a solicitor (Magee, 2000);
- Extradition of a suspect to the United States to face a capital charge (Soering, 1989);
- Granting the police blanket immunity from prosecution (Osman, 1998);
- Shooting of Provisional Irish Republican Army suspects in Gibraltar without any attempt to arrest them (McCann, 1995);
- Killing of a prisoner by another mentally ill detainee with whom he was sharing a cell (Edwards, 2002);
- Investigation of an unlawful killing by police officers conducted by the police officers who participated in the killing (McShane, 2002);
- Failure to protect a child from ill-treatment at the hands of his stepfather (A, 1998);
- Failure by a local authority to take sufficient measures in the case of severe neglect and abuse of children by their parents over several years (Z, 2001);
- Ineffective monitoring of a young prisoner who committed suicide during a short sentence (Keenan, 2001);
- Keeping a disabled person in dangerously cold conditions without access to a toilet (Price, 2001);
- Granting of an injunction against the Sunday Times for publishing an article on the effects of thalidomide (Sunday Times, 1979);
- Injunction against the Sunday Times for publishing extracts from the Spycatcher novel (Sunday Times (no. 2), 1991);
- Ordering a journalist to disclose his sources (Goodwin, 1996);
- Agreement obliging employees to join a certain trade union in order to keep their jobs (Young, 1981);
- Keeping a database of DNA samples taken from individuals arrested, but later acquitted or have the charges agains
Blueandwhites
New Member
Call me all self righteous but I think there's more owed to disabled people than just 'bad customer service'.
I think the human rights act would apply in regard to services provided by a public authority i.e a local council etc, not a private entity as such...There are serious questions about disabled access to 'a service' that shouldn't be ignored. Sisu/ ccfc are likely to have duties as a 'service provider' under the Equality Act 2010, like any other football club. The public/ fans are service users so it would be interesting if any disadvantage has been caused by this move, for people with mobility/ sensory impairments. (sorry if this has already been explored). There is a duty to make 'reasonable adjustments' under the Act for people with disabilities. There are also duties - broadly speaking, not to treat disabled people 'less favourably' on the grounds of a disability. Sixfields might be 'accessible' as a ground but how about people i.e. fans that went to the Ricoh, who are wheelchair users, that can't now go owing to the 'relocation'/ inaccessible transport? If anyone with a disability has been adversely affected by this, there's a helpline you can call for initial guidance. This isn't legal advice and anything intended to be libellous against sisu (I'm asking a question, not making an accusation). However, if disabled people aren't entitled to explore their rights without threats then in such an instance, I'd be very concerned.....
I think the human rights act would apply in regard to services provided by a public authority i.e a local council etc, not a private entity as such...There are serious questions about disabled access to 'a service' that shouldn't be ignored. Sisu/ ccfc are likely to have duties as a 'service provider' under the Equality Act 2010, like any other football club. The public/ fans are service users so it would be interesting if any disadvantage has been caused by this move, for people with mobility/ sensory impairments. (sorry if this has already been explored). There is a duty to make 'reasonable adjustments' under the Act for people with disabilities. There are also duties - broadly speaking, not to treat disabled people 'less favourably' on the grounds of a disability. Sixfields might be 'accessible' as a ground but how about people i.e. fans that went to the Ricoh, who are wheelchair users, that can't now go owing to the 'relocation'/ inaccessible transport? If anyone with a disability has been adversely affected by this, there's a helpline you can call for initial guidance. This isn't legal advice and anything intended to be libellous against sisu (I'm asking a question, not making an accusation). However, if disabled people aren't entitled to explore their rights without threats then in such an instance, I'd be very concerned.....
Skybluerevolution (Pt2)
New Member
Human rights are not infringed in anyway, just because CCFC have not arranged transport to their fixtures, it is not part of the offer to any of our fans disabled or not. I am not agreeing with SISU, all I am saying is to suggest that our predicament warrants being heard at The Court of Human Rights, is a ridiculous statement.
What threats and to who?
Why are people trying to deflect what is really going on here, its almost like clutching a straws, lets play the human rights card....I know we can use the Equality Act, lets throw in the disability card.
How come other disabled supporters have attended Sixfields?
Matty_CCFC
New Member
Good comment.
Just as a matter of intererst and taking into account your situation, would you join a protest on top of the hill in Northampton (if you could get there?)
Philosoraptor
Well-Known Member
A couple of things to address here.
The ECHR in itself is not important. It grows its importance through the protection of ideas, through Social Contract Theory, which as a Country we agreed to and ratified as the European Declaration of Human Rights. These ideas of Social Contract Theory help to protect us from the problems that Utilitarian thinking has, and successive Governments have failed to understand or choose to ignore.
Let me explain, Utility works for the social good. There are a lot of ideas on what to measure Utility on, but for this example we will stick to Hedonism. Whatever brings the greatest amount of happiness or the least amount of pain for society, then we should have these as our laws. The problem arises when these Utilitarian ideas encroach on the individuals Human Rights. Utility has no safeguards for personal freedoms. This can be seen be seen in some of the case-law you gave.
The most important thing for a Democracy, in which we all live in, are the intrinsic values that Democracy brings; Equality and Liberty. The right to be treated the same and the right to personal liberty, and this would include the right to ask questions.
This thread may be to you utter nonsense, but it did ask a question. To try to dismiss this with opinion or legal action is tyranny in itself, and goes against the EDHR which your post is trying to uphold.
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The latter for me
sisu go home
New Member
I agree it's a bit far-fetched, but it's certainly worth putting to the trust to have a look at because these things do work - read my link at the bottom for proof. The human rights for wheelchair users angle is a good one, but you could also look into other possibilities such as the sales-of-goods act, it advertises as Coventry City but it isn't in Coventry. This is false advertising, and they would no longer be able to advertise it as Coventry City. It could also be looked at as fraud. This is the big one though:
[h=1]Protected Geographical Indication Status!!!![/h]Prepare to be amazed. Cornish Pasties just won this battle, so I know it's stupid but it does work - check this out: http://www.thisiscornwall.co.uk/Cor...tory-11451466-detail/story.html#axzz2cyPSQ9d2
If something as daft as a pasty gets the recognition and support from the European Commission, then surely 30,000+ fans can bring this to their attention?
Just remember that this was my idea when it saves the club, I want a statue next to Jimmy's.
[h=1]Protected Geographical Indication Status!!!![/h]Prepare to be amazed. Cornish Pasties just won this battle, so I know it's stupid but it does work - check this out: http://www.thisiscornwall.co.uk/Cor...tory-11451466-detail/story.html#axzz2cyPSQ9d2
If something as daft as a pasty gets the recognition and support from the European Commission, then surely 30,000+ fans can bring this to their attention?
Just remember that this was my idea when it saves the club, I want a statue next to Jimmy's.
skybluesam1987
New Member
In answer to you Matty: Yes, I would protest on the hill if I could get up it
I was on the 'march' from Gosford Green to the City Centre and attended the Legends match so I am not anti protest though admit to being a bit tired of it all.My original post was not about disability discrimination. As I said, my son and my mate, who are both non-disabled didn't get anything from the club asking them to renew either.
My post was more a venting of the spleen after so many months of frustration and although not asked outright, the question was: 'Do the club/Sisu really want us there?' If they do then they have been pretty inept at showing it. If they don't then why not? Or are they just so bloody arrogant that they feel they don't need 'customer service'?
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
They have indeed!
Nick
Administrator
In answer to you Matty: Yes, I would protest on the hill if I could get up it
My original post was not about disability discrimination. As I said, my son and my mate, who are both non-disabled didn't get anything from the club asking them to renew either.
My post was more a venting of the spleen after so many months of frustration and although not asked outright, the question was: 'Do the club/Sisu really want us there?' If they do then they have been pretty inept at showing it. If they don't then why not? Or are they just so bloody arrogant that they feel they don't need 'customer service'?
The thing is though if they had made more gestures and provided better customer service it may have made more people go and not be as bad as the situation we are in now
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
Well Nikki Sinclaire appears to be both & on the side of the fans in all this...as MEP you'd expect her to know if there was a reasonable case to present in terms of Human Rights. If there is I'm sure she'll advise upon & support it.
So best to contact & ask her for a more definitive answer Jan.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Have you asked ACL to let you in?