The community asset (1 Viewer)

[Grendel]

So lots of posters on here maintain giving the Ricoh away for free will affect adversely the taxpayers of Coventry.

I think this is a load of unfounded tosh. Actually I know it is.

 

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[ohitsaidwalker king power]

Go on enlighten us with some data?

 

[Grendel]

Go on enlighten us with some data?

That's the point - there is none. Was council tax proportionately less pre-Ricoh? No it wasn't. Giving it away will affect no Coventry taxpayer at all. It is a myth.

 

[James Smith]

That's the point - there is none. Was council tax proportionately less pre-Ricoh? No it wasn't. Giving it away will affect no Coventry taxpayer at all. It is a myth.

So you're admitting you have nothing to back your claim up with?

 

[Grendel]

So you're admitting you have nothing to back your claim up with?

I don't need to -- other people make the comment - think of the Coventry tax payer - Hugh just made that point. He provided no evidence - it is Hugh's claim. Should Hugh back up this claim or not?

 

[Godiva]

So you're admitting you have nothing to back your claim up with?

Say sisu build a new stadium outside the limits of coventry city, wouldn't that move jobs from the city to the new stadium community?

 

[shmmeee]

That's the point - there is none. Was council tax proportionately less pre-Ricoh? No it wasn't. Giving it away will affect no Coventry taxpayer at all. It is a myth.

Oh thank god. All this time I thought you were a troll or an idiot.

Now I realise you're a Tory.

Sorry I underestimated you

 

[Sky Blues]

If they were to give away the Ricoh for free would that include taking over the £14million loan from the council to ACL? If so, some might think that it was not 'free'. If no, some might wonder who would be left out of pocket by the £14million being unpaid...

Please could you refine your random outburst Grendel.

 

[Grendel]

Oh thank god. All this time I thought you were a troll or an idiot.

Now I realise you're a Tory.

Sorry I underestimated you

I think everyone on the other forum has you sussed shmmeeee you are just a fool to be pitied.

 

[ohitsaidwalker king power]

That's the point - there is none. Was council tax proportionately less pre-Ricoh? No it wasn't. Giving it away will affect no Coventry taxpayer at all. It is a myth.

An opinion you are entitled to... but without data lacks credibility.

 

[Grendel]

An opinion you are entitled to... but without data lacks credibility.

No because I never make any claims. Many claim the taxpayers will be disadvantaged and NOT ONE has ever backed it up with data -- have they?

 

[ohitsaidwalker king power]

No because I never make any claims. Many claim the taxpayers will be disadvantaged and NOT ONE has ever backed it up with data -- have they?

But your counter argument ".... Actually I know it is." is laced with the same hypocrisy isnt it?

 

[Grendel]

If they were to give away the Ricoh for free would that include taking over the £14million loan from the council to ACL? If so, some might think that it was not 'free'. If no, some might wonder who would be left out of pocket by the £14million being unpaid...

Please could you refine your random outburst Grendel.

Well the council leader admitted that ACL would have "been in a right mess" if that loan was not taken. So are you saying by borrowing £14 million we are worse off as taxpayers than if we gave it away in the first place?

 

[James Smith]

Say sisu build a new stadium outside the limits of coventry city, wouldn't that move jobs from the city to the new stadium community?

I'd probably die of shock if they ever did build the White Elephant stadium. It obviously depends on how many people and the type of employment plus where and if they would they be moving from a current job to fill these roles. If it's just Stewarding matches every other week in the season then that's not exactly a full time job. It might be beneficial though in lowering the unemployment level in the City if jobs are created, though it depends on the location of the White Elephant. If it's closer to another urban area then the employment is likely to come from there rather than Coventry.

 

[Grendel]

But your counter argument ".... Actually I know it is." is laced with the same hypocrisy isnt it?

Well, in my view the only tax paid is community charge. So 2 ways to look at it. If Coventry tax payers versus averages has not gone down with the purchase of the Ricoh is that proof would you say?

 

[Grendel]

I'd probably die of shock if they ever did build the White Elephant stadium. It obviously depends on how many and the type of employment plus where and if they would they be moving from to fill these roles. If it's just Stewarding matches every other week in the season then that's not exactly a full time job. It might be beneficial though in lowering the unemployment level in the City if jobs are created though.

James what about Hugh's post -- are you asking him to produce evidence?

 

[theferret]

Well the council leader admitted that ACL would have "been in a right mess" if that loan was not taken. So are you saying by borrowing £14 million we are worse off as taxpayers than if we gave it away in the first place?

The irony of course is that SISU offered to pay off the mortgage. That would have been the best possible outcome for taxpayers (debatable whether it would have been good for the football club, but good for the taxpayers yes - the debt burden would have gone), and yet it was rejected and people rejoiced. :facepalm:

 

[RPHunt]

On that basis, the council should be able to give away every building it owns without it costing the ratepayer a penny. Get requests in now for the civic building of your choice.

 

[ohitsaidwalker king power]

Well, in my view the only tax paid is community charge. So 2 ways to look at it. If Coventry tax payers versus averages has not gone down with the purchase of the Ricoh is that proof would you say?

Sorry forgive me, not patronising, but I dont quite understand your point?

 

[James Smith]

James what about Hugh's post -- are you asking him to produce evidence?

Can you link to his post or even reproduce it here?

 

[James Smith]

The irony of course is that SISU offered to pay off the mortgage. That would have been the best possible outcome for taxpayers (debatable whether it would have been good for the football club, but good for the taxpayers yes - the debt burden would have gone), and yet it was rejected and people rejoiced. :facepalm:

Sorry what debt burden? The loan to ACL is actually making a minor profit for the council, Grendel told me that.

 

[Sky Blues]

Well the council leader admitted that ACL would have "been in a right mess" if that loan was not taken. So are you saying by borrowing £14 million we are worse off as taxpayers than if we gave it away in the first place?

I know you're playing a game and wanting attention Grendel, but I'm feeling charitable so I'll play along for a couple of minutes. I don't know the terms of the loan, but on the surface it might be a reasonable assumption that the council will be worse off if the loan is not repaid. But unless such a situation comes to pass the council would not be worse off. Do you want the taxpayers of Coventry to lose money Grendel?

 

[Grendel]

Can you link to his post or even reproduce it here?

Well I'm amazed you haven't seen it. It's in the thread that is always your "source" the ever impartial Peter k h whatever his name is. I'm staggered I even left you a message on there.

 

[Grendel]

I know you're playing a game and wanting attention Grendel, but I'm feeling charitable so I'll play along for a couple of minutes. I don't know the terms of the loan, but on the surface it might be a reasonable assumption that the council will be worse off if the loan is not repaid. But unless such a situation comes to pass the council would not be worse off. Do you want the taxpayers of Coventry to lose money Grendel?

I can only define worse off as higher council tax against national trends. Many councils lost fortunes in Icelandic investments a couple of years ago. Bit worse than losing a football stadium. Do you think those taxpayers are worse off?

 

[Grendel]

Sorry what debt burden? The loan to ACL is actually making a minor profit for the council, Grendel told me that.

No never to you that. We do know without it though ACL were in a right mess - that's a fact isn't it?

 

[mark82]

I wouldn't give it away to Sisu for sure. Maybe to the trust. Not going to happen though is it. Charity certainly couldn't give their half away.

 

[theferret]

Sorry what debt burden? The loan to ACL is actually making a small profit for the council, Grendel told me that.

And if they default? Unless of course you can guarantee that ACL are good for every penny of that money over coming years? If we're talking about what is good for the taxpayer (why we would do that I don't know, who gives a toss), then I would suggest that the local authority loaning money to a private company against a backdrop of massive uncertainty and the threat of foreclosure by the bank is a somewhat high risk use of public funds wouldn't you say?

 

[Sky Blues]

I can only define worse off as higher council tax against national trends. Many councils lost fortunes in Icelandic investments a couple of years ago. Bit worse than losing a football stadium. Do you think those taxpayers are worse off?

I've no idea - I haven't seen the balance sheets of those councils and therefore don't know if that money could have been used to earn a rate of interest for the council that could help keep council tax rates lower than they now are, or whether a particular project or service is no longer available to the residents of those areas as the expected reserves are no longer there to provide the funding.

OK, as we're onto the Icelandic banking crisis, I'm losing interest and will take my leave. Night Grendel! :wave:

 

[James Smith]

No never to you that. We do know without it though ACL were in a right mess - that's a fact isn't it?

Ah so this post doesn't count?

They have said they will make a "minor profit". This of course assumes they will pay the full term.

They are a parasite that has fed off the football club for a decade. All genuine sky blue fans will rejoice if they do not pay the term.

http://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threa...d-last-ditch-talks-with-Football-League/page3

 

[lordsummerisle]

I wouldn't give it away to Sisu for sure. Maybe to the trust. Not going to happen though is it. Charity certainly couldn't give their half away.

Yep, couldn't give it away, what do you think they are? A bloody charity?

 

[James Smith]

And if they default? Unless of course you can guarantee that ACL are good for every penny of that money over coming years? If we're talking about what is good for the taxpayer (why we would do that I don't know, who gives a toss), then I would suggest that the local authority loaning money to a private company against a backdrop of massive uncertainty and the threat of foreclosure by the bank is a somewhat high risk use of public funds wouldn't you say?

Yes there is a risk if they default just as there is risk in everything. I'm not an expert on financial risk so I can't comment on that with any in depth knowledge. However as with the flat that I rent I would have thought that if ACL got a tenant who actually pays rent then that would lower any risk.

 

[James Smith]

No never to you that. We do know without it though ACL were in a right mess - that's a fact isn't it?

The leader of the council said it.

 

[Grendel]

Yes there is a risk if they default just as there is risk in everything. I'm not an expert on financial risk so I can't comment on that with any in depth knowledge. However as with the flat that I rent I would have thought that if ACL got a tenant who actually pays rent then that would lower any risk.

Especially if the landlord borrows the money from 350,000 citizens who have no say in providing your flat. Not bothered if you default then are they?

 

[James Smith]

Yep, couldn't give it away, what do you think they are? A bloody charity?

Actually I don't think that they can just give it away as part of it was a loan to the club, before the club sold their share in ACL.

My battery is on its last legs I think so time to go.

 

[skybluehugh]

I think everyone on the other forum has you sussed shmmeeee you are just a fool to be pitied.

Been away for a week but good to see the same crap is posted by the same people. Way to go in having real debate.